Another refrigerator exploded in a house

[brisnat81]

Tom, what about when they're stored on a shelf in a basement next to a Gas waterheater, or in a Laundry with a dryer.

Under my sink we have a Chilled water unit, a garbage disposal and Power Sockets for those plus the dishwasher. There is plenty of electric potential under there.

Same with Airconditioning, that vents into every room of the house, plus the electrical components inside, again, not a problem.

I dont understand why people need to spend their lives living in fear of everything. Things go wrong, shit happens, but if you are afraid of everything that could happen, its impossible to live and enjoy life.

This is no different to an old School defrost element in a fridge shorting out and potentially getting hot enough to set fire to plastic components, or a dishwasher Heating element relay getting stuck closed, things go wrong, but why waste life worrying about it.

 

[tomturbomatic]

In case the points in reply #30 were addressed to me

Our aerosol cans have a warning against storing them near a source of ignition.

I don't understand your concern about air conditioning vents in rooms.

With every one of your points, you are neglecting to factor in the dilution of the refrigerant or propellant in large amounts of air and the lack of a possible electrical spark when contacts meet in a switch in a concentrated flammable atmosphere. In a refrigerator with foamed-in insulation, you have the possibility for slowly leaking refrigerant to build up in a restricted space. Refrigerant leaking inside the box happened with Amana refrigerators that used a hot gas tube to prevent condensation forming around the doors as an economical way to avoid using an electrical mullion heater. Unfortunately, tubes can develop leaks. With the Amana refrigerators the loss of Freon was not noticed until the refrigerator lost its charge and, unfortunately, there was not a way to repair and recharge the system. Imagine how exciting that could have been if it were a flammable refrigerant leaking into the foam near something like a door switch, a defrost timer or a thermostat, all of which have electrical contacts.

I am not afraid of everything. I do not spend my life, how do you put it, living in fear of everything. In the late 60s, I did hear about a family being killed in a house fire that started in the kitchen when they left the dishwasher running and went upstairs to bed. From that time on, we have not gone to bed until the dishwasher completes its cycle. As further insurance, I prop open the door on both machines to enhance drying and unplug the portable. When the dryers complete their cycle, I open the door or unplug them to break the circuit and make sure that the heat is off. It is prudent practice with older appliances, but not living in fear. A further benefit with the 1953 Hamilton is that by so doing, I get to smell the fragrance of the ozone and the operating instructions suggest letting the dryer air out to let residual moisture escape. I also do not leave the house with appliances operating except for the heat or air conditioning. [this post was last edited: 4/20/2021-08:04]

 

[henene4]

It's funny.

The US loves their gas appliances.

But suddenly the risk of a gas leak leading to an explosion is an issue - cause it's a fridge.

Yes these refrigerants are used for environmental reasons.

When they leak, their CO2 equivalent is pretty low - pretty much equal to CO2.

For R134a, its like 1kg of it equals 1.4 tons CO2 (1400 times as potent).

I honestly never saw a refrigerant leak on any fridge we have owned.

It's a sealed system and is usually left alone.
It's in dry conditions.

Leaks are rare.

Then there is the amount.

My fridge has like 100g of R290.
Modern heat pump dryers over here have like 500g.

1 m³ of air weighs about 1.2kg and propane is explosive in concentrations between 2% and 10%.

So the charge in a fridge is diluted enough to be a non issue at 5m³.

5m³ is like 150 cuft.
I think some appliances over here even say they need to be set up in a well ventilated room with a certain size.

Saying:

To get an explosive mixture and an ignition source in a normal room is very unlikely.
In case of a car? Probably even less so being outside.

Not technically impossible, just very unlikely.

Further R290 is heavier than air.

It would settle to the floor and dissapate through the gaps at the bottom of the door.

I'd be much more worried by things like gas leaks from gas pipes.

It's a risk, yeah, like getting hit by lightning.

Sure it can happen.
Will it happen to you?
Most likely not.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[tolivac]

entry posted 4 times!How about sparks from the thermostat or the compressor starting relay?

 

[henene4]

Having an ignition source is one thing. Having the right gas mixture around the source of the ignition is another thing. Given the gas is under pressure the dilution is going to happen very quickly. And once the minute charge is diluted, it's no longer dangerous. As I said: 150cuft of air is enough to get the concentration low enough to make ignition (or better an explosion) impossible. Not every gas leak leads to a huge explosion. Something happening isn't impossible. It's just VERY unlikely.

 

[henene4]

Ok let me rephrase that

Each year, about 170000 vehicles catch fire on US highways.
They kill more than 300 people a year.

We had a single digit case of explosions that MIGHT have been caused by defective fridges - be these defects caused by bad manufacturing (unlikely IMO, as I said) or by misuse (more likely IMO).

Sure something can happen.

That's always the case.

But at some point you gotta be realistic.

 

[norgeway]

The fact remains

Sulfur dioxide might really stink and be corrosive, but its not going to explode, Freon in any of its forms, 134, 12, 500 whatever, might be suspect in being harmful to the atmosphere, but its not going to explode, Funny thing you have never heard of a 1950s fridge blowing up...The fact remains todays appliances are for the most part garbage.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

The Tarrant County Accident!

A fridge and stove, in my case and other numerable cases, gas, but really no relevance in it being electric, operating side by side I have seen should never be redeemed hazardous in any everyday use of one or the other, and I agree, poorly-made the trash of today, results in yet only these hopefully what will be isolated, and numerically-low counting, incidents...

 

 

 

-- Dave

 

[whitewhiskers]

Crazy GAS refrigerator?

too funny

 

[norgeway]

Gas refrigerators were wonderful

And i have never heard of one blowing up, they are totally silent, no moving parts

 

[qsd-dan]

Hydrocarbon refrigerant flammability test from 1995.

 

[paulg]

Growing awareness

I am a CFEI (Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator). At the last big pow-wow I went to I mentioned to my table that I hoped to hear (again) the continuing investigations into exploding refrigerators. The non-appliance manufacturers at the table looked at me like I had two heads.
Sure enough, the last topic of the day was the continuing investigations into exploding refrigerators. The instructor was from England and so his examples reflected that.
As mentioned earlier, leaking evaporators with explosive refrigerant appears to be the typical cause.

The massive fire in the high-rise was addressed in the same seminar. If I remember correctly, by a failed capacitor that ignited the plastic frame/insulation of the refrigerator. Metal shields around the compressor’s electronics usually prevent this but that (non-USA) refrigerator design didn’t have that and the plastic framing was exposed.
That one worried me a bit. I have an inexpensive apartment-sized refrigerator in the basement. I went home and checked my unit. My compressor compartment with electronics is essentially surrounded by metal. Whew. Also, my fridge was made in the USA. I wasn’t too worried though that is no guarantee of anything nowadays.

I visited a Chicagoland discount store not too long ago. They were selling inexpensive full-sized refrigerators of a brand not familiar to many. The refrigerators DID have stickers on it that said “Warning, explosive refrigerant.” At least they told you in advance......

 

[jamiel]

I had thought that the issue with the cheap European refrigerators was that the back panel was fiberboard--not metal, so would not contain the fire in case of ignition.

 

[paulg]

Fiberboard not mentioned

Fiberboard was not mentioned at the seminar but rather the constant exposure of egg-crate like plastic framing to overheated components as the cause.