Another refrigerator exploded in a house

[warmsecondrinse]

#18

Agreed. Given enough time the "danger" of flammable refrigerants will cause a shift back to environmentally less friendly ones.......

 

[lotsosudz]

Whirlpool Fridges, Yuk!

Have had to use two Kenmore (Whirlpool) fridges in the past, and both have been lousy. Never have cared for them, never will!
Hugs,
David

 

[lotsosudz]

Whirlpool Fridges, Yuk!

Have had to use two Kenmore (Whirlpool) fridges in the past, and both have been lousy. Never have cared for them, never will! Quality goes out, before the name goes on!
Hugs,
David

 

[DADoES]

 
Parents' KA/WP topfreezer is 26 years, no repairs except ice maker.

I have a KA/WP 24 years, relegated to garage fridge in 2005.  No repairs except the ice maker swapped to the parents.

RJ has a 2006 (per serial) KA/WP SxS.  One repair thus far, evaporator fan motor, I don't recall how long ago but has been several years.

 

[appnut]

David, what fridges have you been pleased with and what format were they?

 

[brisnat81]

I think everyone is blowing this greatly out of proportion, we're not talking about a 40pound propane tank attached to your compressor in the car or the fridge. We're generally talking about one to two pounds of refrigerant in a modern fridge. I don't see everyone freaking out about the aerosol cans in their houses that also contain flammable propellent. A can of Bug Spray, a can of Carpet cleaner, a can of furniture polish a can of air freshener and your probably getting close to the same capacity of flammable gas under your kitchen sink as is in your fridge.

Over here these non ozone depleting gases have been in AC units, Fridges, Aerosol cans, Car AC's for 5-10 years now and there hasnt been a surge in AC system s exploding into flames, or cars catching fire on impact. In domestic use, Propane tanks are still the only thing that have specific handling instructions, inspite of all these fireballs waiting to destroy our lives.

Not everything new is bad or worth stressing over.

 

[combo52]

Quantity Of Refrigerant In Home Refrigerators

Hi Nathan, Home refrigerators and freezers only have around 5 Oz of refrigerant in them for about the last 20+ years, even when they used R-12, or R134A Etc.

 

John L.

 

[brisnat81]

Thankyou Jobn, that means its even less, so there would seem to be a non issue?

 

[tomturbomatic]

All fine except that cans of bug spray, etc. do not have electrical components like start relays and other switches attached to them to ignite gas in case of a leak.

 

[vacerator]

What does the plant fire

have to do with a kitchen fridge exploding or Whirlpool? I don't comprende' Portugese very well.

 

[thomasortega]

Indeed, the amount of flammable in a refrigerator is minimal. ONE refrigerator wouldn't be a huge issue.

Plant exploding = The fire started in one of the conveyors (static electricity). the "small" amount of flammable refrigerant in EACH refrigerator (in a warehouse with way over 10 thousand units ready to be shipped) created that inferno that consumed the whole plant. Add to that tons of plastic, styrofoam, cardboard, etc.

Decades of training, classes, workshops, drills, we THINK we're ready and that we have knowledge enough about what to do in case of fire, until that happens and we finally realize it's a lot worse and faster than anything you could ever imagine.

It wasn't "several minutes". After the fire started (a really small fire) it took less than 10 minutes for ALL the buildings to burn. Literally... minute 1, a small fire, so small that a kitchen fire extinguisher could've put it out. minute 10, a 10k square meters warehouse and adjacent buildings (total average 50k square meters) entirely in flames.

Containment? Buildings separate, standard fire sprinklers, deluge system in the production building, "hangar" foam system in the warehouse, FM200 in the engineering building, the Electrolux fire brigade (we) immediately starting to fight the fire with hoses until the fire department arrived, NOTHING WORKED! It was like trying to empty a swimming pool with a teaspoon. We were using everything we had available but it didn't do anything to the fire. It just kept growing at an incredible pace.

 

[brisnat81]

Tom, what about when they're stored on a shelf in a basement next to a Gas waterheater, or in a Laundry with a dryer.

Under my sink we have a Chilled water unit, a garbage disposal and Power Sockets for those plus the dishwasher. There is plenty of electric potential under there.

Same with Airconditioning, that vents into every room of the house, plus the electrical components inside, again, not a problem.

I dont understand why people need to spend their lives living in fear of everything. Things go wrong, shit happens, but if you are afraid of everything that could happen, its impossible to live and enjoy life.

This is no different to an old School defrost element in a fridge shorting out and potentially getting hot enough to set fire to plastic components, or a dishwasher Heating element relay getting stuck closed, things go wrong, but why waste life worrying about it.

 

[tomturbomatic]

In case the points in reply #30 were addressed to me

Our aerosol cans have a warning against storing them near a source of ignition.

I don't understand your concern about air conditioning vents in rooms.

With every one of your points, you are neglecting to factor in the dilution of the refrigerant or propellant in large amounts of air and the lack of a possible electrical spark when contacts meet in a switch in a concentrated flammable atmosphere. In a refrigerator with foamed-in insulation, you have the possibility for slowly leaking refrigerant to build up in a restricted space. Refrigerant leaking inside the box happened with Amana refrigerators that used a hot gas tube to prevent condensation forming around the doors as an economical way to avoid using an electrical mullion heater. Unfortunately, tubes can develop leaks. With the Amana refrigerators the loss of Freon was not noticed until the refrigerator lost its charge and, unfortunately, there was not a way to repair and recharge the system. Imagine how exciting that could have been if it were a flammable refrigerant leaking into the foam near something like a door switch, a defrost timer or a thermostat, all of which have electrical contacts.

I am not afraid of everything. I do not spend my life, how do you put it, living in fear of everything. In the late 60s, I did hear about a family being killed in a house fire that started in the kitchen when they left the dishwasher running and went upstairs to bed. From that time on, we have not gone to bed until the dishwasher completes its cycle. As further insurance, I prop open the door on both machines to enhance drying and unplug the portable. When the dryers complete their cycle, I open the door or unplug them to break the circuit and make sure that the heat is off. It is prudent practice with older appliances, but not living in fear. A further benefit with the 1953 Hamilton is that by so doing, I get to smell the fragrance of the ozone and the operating instructions suggest letting the dryer air out to let residual moisture escape. I also do not leave the house with appliances operating except for the heat or air conditioning. [this post was last edited: 4/20/2021-08:04]

 

[henene4]

It's funny.

The US loves their gas appliances.

But suddenly the risk of a gas leak leading to an explosion is an issue - cause it's a fridge.

Yes these refrigerants are used for environmental reasons.

When they leak, their CO2 equivalent is pretty low - pretty much equal to CO2.

For R134a, its like 1kg of it equals 1.4 tons CO2 (1400 times as potent).

I honestly never saw a refrigerant leak on any fridge we have owned.

It's a sealed system and is usually left alone.
It's in dry conditions.

Leaks are rare.

Then there is the amount.

My fridge has like 100g of R290.
Modern heat pump dryers over here have like 500g.

1 m³ of air weighs about 1.2kg and propane is explosive in concentrations between 2% and 10%.

So the charge in a fridge is diluted enough to be a non issue at 5m³.

5m³ is like 150 cuft.
I think some appliances over here even say they need to be set up in a well ventilated room with a certain size.

Saying:

To get an explosive mixture and an ignition source in a normal room is very unlikely.
In case of a car? Probably even less so being outside.

Not technically impossible, just very unlikely.

Further R290 is heavier than air.

It would settle to the floor and dissapate through the gaps at the bottom of the door.

I'd be much more worried by things like gas leaks from gas pipes.

It's a risk, yeah, like getting hit by lightning.

Sure it can happen.
Will it happen to you?
Most likely not.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

Evaporator Leaks Are Very Common Cause Of Failure

In modern refrigerators, And evaporators are in VERY wet conditions inside refrigerators, in the Fresh Food section they are constantly wet, In the Freezer section they go from frozen and wet durning the defrost cycle. The high pressure tube coming out of the compressor is also immersed in water to evaporate defrost water and is a very common leak point under the refrigerator.

 

The nearly sealed environment of a refrigerator can be a good place for refrigerants to mix with air if a sudden leak occurs and ignite with heat or a spark like opening the door for a midnight snack and the spark of the light switch ignites the explosive mixture inside the FF section.

 

Yes this is pretty unlikely and I am going to still worry much more about nuclear annihilation than being blown up by my refrigerator, but a refrigerant leak is not simply going to leak out and stay on the floor of the house and filter out the cracks of the building, LOL

 

John L.

 

[tolivac]

entry posted 4 times!How about sparks from the thermostat or the compressor starting relay?

 

[henene4]

Having an ignition source is one thing. Having the right gas mixture around the source of the ignition is another thing. Given the gas is under pressure the dilution is going to happen very quickly. And once the minute charge is diluted, it's no longer dangerous. As I said: 150cuft of air is enough to get the concentration low enough to make ignition (or better an explosion) impossible. Not every gas leak leads to a huge explosion. Something happening isn't impossible. It's just VERY unlikely.