I am curious about the common problems that are encountered when you find a 1960 Frigidaire WCI. I am still looking for a 1960 WCI but hopefully one day soon I will find one ! I know with such a wealth of knowledge in this organizaton that the few of you who actually have this machine can share your experiences. Any insights, suggestions, ideas, feelings would greatly be appreciated. I have a 1960 Frigidaire DCI it is awesome! I guess one down and another one to go!
Asking the Frigidaire Experts on common problems on Multimatics
- Thread starter Derrek17
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Well, I don't think finding one is a problem. Plenty of club members have them. The problem is----- keeping them up and running.
Unique to the Multi-tragic mechanism....
Belt adjustments can be a challenge.
High-speed spin clutch (62 and earlier)
Transmission; chronic top seal and center joint leaks, torque springs, bearings.
Those of us that have had them and worked on them tend to joke about them quite a bit, but in all reality, some of them were quite reliable and didn't cause all the trouble some of us have seen. Of course, that being said, Frigidaire did mention in one of their service bulletins that the Rollermatic mechanism was available in whole as a remedy for troublesome multimatics. Pop in a whole new mechanism and wash those troubles away!
Plus all the other issues that come with any vintage Frigidaire washer - timer, pump, switches, water valve, seals, bellows, etc. Anyone who makes a commitment to a vintage washing machine of the complexity of a TOL Multimatic must be willing from the outset to learn about the machine and it's service requirements, be willing to search for needed parts and spares, and ultimately to do the work required as there is virtually nobody who will come to your house to work on the machine for any amount of money. Even if lucky enough to find one in working condition, a 40+ year old washing machine will likely need work in the not so distant future.
Belt adjustments can be a challenge.
High-speed spin clutch (62 and earlier)
Transmission; chronic top seal and center joint leaks, torque springs, bearings.
Those of us that have had them and worked on them tend to joke about them quite a bit, but in all reality, some of them were quite reliable and didn't cause all the trouble some of us have seen. Of course, that being said, Frigidaire did mention in one of their service bulletins that the Rollermatic mechanism was available in whole as a remedy for troublesome multimatics. Pop in a whole new mechanism and wash those troubles away!
Plus all the other issues that come with any vintage Frigidaire washer - timer, pump, switches, water valve, seals, bellows, etc. Anyone who makes a commitment to a vintage washing machine of the complexity of a TOL Multimatic must be willing from the outset to learn about the machine and it's service requirements, be willing to search for needed parts and spares, and ultimately to do the work required as there is virtually nobody who will come to your house to work on the machine for any amount of money. Even if lucky enough to find one in working condition, a 40+ year old washing machine will likely need work in the not so distant future.
Priorities
I think Mechanical Mandy pretty much covered the range, so I will not repeat.
Instead, when I was looking at the beautiful 58/59 Mulitimatic Thumper my partner got last month, my priorities were divided among these areas:
Safety:
As anyone who ever had a rollermatic go up in flames knows, Frigidaire used some synthetic rubber parts which DOW couldn't have improved on. So I made sure there were no mechanical friction or binding problems anywhere in the machine. No pinched hoses, etc.
Checked the electrical situation before plugging her in. Any shorts, open circuits, grounds (o ye gods and little fishes, no ground...took care of that...got all the metal components bonded and the machine properly hooked up to a heavy copper three prong Frigidaire cord from a later machine). The cold water hose was not the original, no grounding wire or braid in it!
Replaced the simple water valves with new ones. They aren't thermostatically controlled three-ways, just plain. In any machine this old, they will cause problems and flood you sooner rather than later. You must pay attention to the grounding here, new ones are plastic clean through and do not permit grounding through the hoses. Nor do the new hoses which are also a good idea.
Mechanical:
Carefully tested the mechanical systems. No grinding, crunching, bad sounds - no loose bolts or parts, out of this world rust or otherwise. Did not lube anything, all the rollermatics of my misspent youth are still whirling in my mind. Did check the belt tension, was relieved.
Added hot water and let the seals come up to temp. Checked for leaks everywhere - as Robert once mentioned, a very small drip through the bellows and the bearings seize faster than you'd have thought possible. Gently tried agitation and pumping. Since that was ok, let 'er rip.
Oh, ok, two small things occur to me which you need to look at. One, I speak lovingly about "thumpers" but in reality, they are quiet. If you are getting some thumping, as in plastic on plastic, then you need to make sure the pulsator spacers have not perished. It doesn't take much to kill one and they aren't exactly being made by the million any more.
Two, as durable as that timer mechanism is, (and was until GM switched to the built in obsolescence of the driver dogs in the timer motor) the motor reset switch has a very tight clearance to the panel. Be sure it can move enough to reset, otherwise you may be left sitting there with an otherwise fine machine you can not get to work. Shorting that control is so not a good idea...
I think Mechanical Mandy pretty much covered the range, so I will not repeat.
Instead, when I was looking at the beautiful 58/59 Mulitimatic Thumper my partner got last month, my priorities were divided among these areas:
Safety:
As anyone who ever had a rollermatic go up in flames knows, Frigidaire used some synthetic rubber parts which DOW couldn't have improved on. So I made sure there were no mechanical friction or binding problems anywhere in the machine. No pinched hoses, etc.
Checked the electrical situation before plugging her in. Any shorts, open circuits, grounds (o ye gods and little fishes, no ground...took care of that...got all the metal components bonded and the machine properly hooked up to a heavy copper three prong Frigidaire cord from a later machine). The cold water hose was not the original, no grounding wire or braid in it!
Replaced the simple water valves with new ones. They aren't thermostatically controlled three-ways, just plain. In any machine this old, they will cause problems and flood you sooner rather than later. You must pay attention to the grounding here, new ones are plastic clean through and do not permit grounding through the hoses. Nor do the new hoses which are also a good idea.
Mechanical:
Carefully tested the mechanical systems. No grinding, crunching, bad sounds - no loose bolts or parts, out of this world rust or otherwise. Did not lube anything, all the rollermatics of my misspent youth are still whirling in my mind. Did check the belt tension, was relieved.
Added hot water and let the seals come up to temp. Checked for leaks everywhere - as Robert once mentioned, a very small drip through the bellows and the bearings seize faster than you'd have thought possible. Gently tried agitation and pumping. Since that was ok, let 'er rip.
Oh, ok, two small things occur to me which you need to look at. One, I speak lovingly about "thumpers" but in reality, they are quiet. If you are getting some thumping, as in plastic on plastic, then you need to make sure the pulsator spacers have not perished. It doesn't take much to kill one and they aren't exactly being made by the million any more.
Two, as durable as that timer mechanism is, (and was until GM switched to the built in obsolescence of the driver dogs in the timer motor) the motor reset switch has a very tight clearance to the panel. Be sure it can move enough to reset, otherwise you may be left sitting there with an otherwise fine machine you can not get to work. Shorting that control is so not a good idea...
Panthera-------
Interesting observations. The spacing issues for the pulsator are really important. I learned the hard way about spacing issues while re-operating the (you should pardon the expression) "Unimatic" transmissions.
A couple of years ago, down in Pensacola, I met a wonderful old Frigidaire repair expert (a friend of MayKen4now's) who is a walking data bank. He told me something interesting about those motor overload buttons. He said they were never meant to use repeatedly. I.e. they were meant to be used the "few" times in the washer's service life that the motor might overload. Perhaps if something blocked/jammed the pump or if the machine sudz-locked, something was binding, etc. I had never considered that. I always thought you just used them as much as you needed to. I remember thinking "no wonder I find so many old Frigidaires with bad motor overload buttons"!
Now, every time I see an old Frigidaire "parts donor" irregardless of vintage, the first thing I want to do is "harvest" the console for the timer and motor overload button.
I think the most critical parts are the tub support mechanism, nut and seal assembly, torque springs, assorted seals (just try to find that carbon seal for a Unimatic water pump!). The most frustrating thing about restoring so many of these machines is just one of these tiny parts can leave you dead in the water. Either you find one, improvise, or (at great expense) have one made (if possible).
In the not-too-distant-future I will face the task of working on my '59 WI. Motor hums, but something is binding it. Pump issues? Belts? It will be interesting. I'll keep my blood pressure pills handy.
Interesting observations. The spacing issues for the pulsator are really important. I learned the hard way about spacing issues while re-operating the (you should pardon the expression) "Unimatic" transmissions.
A couple of years ago, down in Pensacola, I met a wonderful old Frigidaire repair expert (a friend of MayKen4now's) who is a walking data bank. He told me something interesting about those motor overload buttons. He said they were never meant to use repeatedly. I.e. they were meant to be used the "few" times in the washer's service life that the motor might overload. Perhaps if something blocked/jammed the pump or if the machine sudz-locked, something was binding, etc. I had never considered that. I always thought you just used them as much as you needed to. I remember thinking "no wonder I find so many old Frigidaires with bad motor overload buttons"!
Now, every time I see an old Frigidaire "parts donor" irregardless of vintage, the first thing I want to do is "harvest" the console for the timer and motor overload button.
I think the most critical parts are the tub support mechanism, nut and seal assembly, torque springs, assorted seals (just try to find that carbon seal for a Unimatic water pump!). The most frustrating thing about restoring so many of these machines is just one of these tiny parts can leave you dead in the water. Either you find one, improvise, or (at great expense) have one made (if possible).
In the not-too-distant-future I will face the task of working on my '59 WI. Motor hums, but something is binding it. Pump issues? Belts? It will be interesting. I'll keep my blood pressure pills handy.
weakest link
in my experience the weakest link in the pulsa/multi matics were the support bearing inside the support plate which holds the whole shebang up on the shaft.
its operation is crucially dependant upon the health of the lubricating oil inside. so change that oil regularly because if that bearing goes you end up with burnt out motors and stalled tubs full of water.
Keven- question you mentioned checking the belt tension on a rollermatic??, you must be working on a 1-18? so which models did you hear or see burst into flame? a 1-18 or the earlier rollermatic design? which had the synthetic rubber and what were the components in the machine?
i've never experienced a burning rollermatic but I did have Robert set my Filtrator dryer in fyer!!
jet
in my experience the weakest link in the pulsa/multi matics were the support bearing inside the support plate which holds the whole shebang up on the shaft.
its operation is crucially dependant upon the health of the lubricating oil inside. so change that oil regularly because if that bearing goes you end up with burnt out motors and stalled tubs full of water.
Keven- question you mentioned checking the belt tension on a rollermatic??, you must be working on a 1-18? so which models did you hear or see burst into flame? a 1-18 or the earlier rollermatic design? which had the synthetic rubber and what were the components in the machine?
i've never experienced a burning rollermatic but I did have Robert set my Filtrator dryer in fyer!!
jet
I have had two machines with a Multitragic. A 1963 and a 1961. They were the worst mechanical design for anything, that I have ever seen. Such a stepdown from a Unimatic! What were the engineers were thinking?
I now have a beautiful 1960 CI ,which is gutted, and I am in the process of looking for a Rollermatic mech to put into it now. I even tried to make one good Multimatic transmition out of two. That project failed because the same parts were broken in both transmitions.I would not waste my time again, trying to revive a Multitragic once it goes down for the count.
I now have a beautiful 1960 CI ,which is gutted, and I am in the process of looking for a Rollermatic mech to put into it now. I even tried to make one good Multimatic transmition out of two. That project failed because the same parts were broken in both transmitions.I would not waste my time again, trying to revive a Multitragic once it goes down for the count.
Did Frigidaire ever say what the "average" life span of a multimatic? My grandfather bought my grandmother a Frigidaire Custom Imperial set in August,1960.I remember that the washer was replaced in June, 1968....I remember the delivery guys setting the washer out on the curb for the garbage men...
ah,
I didn't check the two belts'tension in a rollermatic! No wonder they were always broke if they had two belts and I never saw them...(teasing).
I was refering to the new multimatic beauty my partner has. The multimatic has two belts whose tensions are critical, mutually dependent, variable and a nightmare to adjust. This machine has relatively new belts.
The rollermatics of my "dreams" (as in haunted) were about 70 or so machines I was responsible for in the student dorms in the late '70s early '80s.
Several "rubber" parts used in that era decompose or just plain easily catch fire. Since it is impossible to get replacements for them easily - if at all - you need to be careful of them.
Quite a few folks have reported on thumpers going up in flames over the years. I had a fill hose on a late '60s rollermatic go up in flames when one of the wires in the harness developed a short to ground and sparked. Just like that!
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
I don't regard myself as an expert, just a guy who has spent a lot of time under the skirts of these beauties.
There are some real experts here, but since I had just gone through the procedures on a similar machine, thought I might have something to offer.
I didn't check the two belts'tension in a rollermatic! No wonder they were always broke if they had two belts and I never saw them...(teasing).
I was refering to the new multimatic beauty my partner has. The multimatic has two belts whose tensions are critical, mutually dependent, variable and a nightmare to adjust. This machine has relatively new belts.
The rollermatics of my "dreams" (as in haunted) were about 70 or so machines I was responsible for in the student dorms in the late '70s early '80s.
Several "rubber" parts used in that era decompose or just plain easily catch fire. Since it is impossible to get replacements for them easily - if at all - you need to be careful of them.
Quite a few folks have reported on thumpers going up in flames over the years. I had a fill hose on a late '60s rollermatic go up in flames when one of the wires in the harness developed a short to ground and sparked. Just like that!
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
I don't regard myself as an expert, just a guy who has spent a lot of time under the skirts of these beauties.
There are some real experts here, but since I had just gone through the procedures on a similar machine, thought I might have something to offer.
