Australian laws are introducing the “two buttons start”

[adam-aussie-vac]

Hey guys, so I found out that Australia is going to be introducing a specific function for front loading washing machines, and that is where you have to hit two buttons to start the machine, it’ll prevent a toddler or someone who probably shouldn’t be in the laundry anyway from climbing in and starting the machine, it does make me wonder if it’s only household appliances or if it’ll also be commercial/industrial equipment


It will come into effect on July 1 so any washing machines that are being sold after that we’ll have to be compliant, so probably anything before that will go really cheaply, if there’s an expensive machine that isn’t compliant, you can probably get it cheap

 

[vacerator]

Two kids would be needed have to start the machine if one is inside. They don't start with the door opened. This feature will not outsmart them. Don't they already have lock out controls feature?

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

Potentially, but I would know that some washing machines that after you hit that button then you can shut the door and it’ll start by itself instead of waiting for you to shut the door and if you would hit the start button, you would have to physically shut the door and then hit the start button to start the machine

 

[aussie-plugs]

Is this another case of government needing to be seen to do something when any sort of tragedy occurs? Ironically, the video shows a new Miele where a four-step process is required. Select the program to turn on the machine at all, then close the door, then press button one, then buttong two (start). Existing Mieles already need to be 1. turned on, 2. have program selected, 3. close door before "start" option is activated, then 4. press start. I just wonder how much more complicated things need to be to protect the kids? Are there perhaps much more basic machines than mine out there, which is what this law is aimed at?

 

[spinspeed]

How ridiculous. How can a child climb in to the drum, and then shut the door on itself. Totally get it if one child inside and another outside to shut the door and hit start button. Nanny state of Australia.

 

[me]

Surely, if you are going to require this stupid thing, the requirement should be that you have to press your combination of buttons to release the lock to be able to open or close the door, so a kid also can't climb in and suffocate if the door is closed.

Maybe they should require an emergency stop button on the inside of the door as well! ;O)

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

Is this another case of government needing to be seen to do something when any sort of tragedy occurs? Ironically, the video shows a new Miele where a four-step process is required. Select the program to turn on the machine at all, then close the door, then press button one, then buttong two (start). Existing Mieles already need to be 1. turned on, 2. have program selected, 3. close door before "start" option is activated, then 4. press start. I just wonder how much more complicated things need to be to protect the kids? Are there perhaps much more basic machines than mine out there, which is what this law is aimed at?

Apparently, it’s only for front loading machine machines, so things such as older top loaders with timers and twin tubs would still be all A-OK, although now I actually probably want to read up on the law of it

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

I found the law and apparently it was introduced in 2024 although it does make me wonder, for any machines that are a front loader but they have the control panel at the back so kids can’t touch it would that still probably have to be a thing?

 

[pstehle]

One problem will be that kids learn from watching mommy or daddy use the thing, so it's a matter of time before one gets past this. Canada and a few clinics in the US have a "last man out" button that starts a timer when exiting an x-ray or other radiation vault, with the intent that that person assumes responsibility to promise no one else remains in the room. It can still easily be ignored, the hope is that it will make a responsibly person think about whether or not there's someone there. Small children are still learning responsibility like this, so it seems a bit futile to me...

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

One problem will be that kids learn from watching mommy or daddy use the thing, so it's a matter of time before one gets past this. Canada and a few clinics in the US have a "last man out" button that starts a timer when exiting an x-ray or other radiation vault, with the intent that that person assumes responsibility to promise no one else remains in the room. It can still easily be ignored, the hope is that it will make a responsibly person think about whether or not there's someone there. Small children are still learning responsibility like this, so it seems a bit futile to me...

Okay, in my opinion probably it would be a better idea to have a machine at chest height that’s smooth on the front so kids cannot climb up it into the drum as in in a similar way to the height of a top loader but having the drum at that height or even just going with the European style top loaders, the small enough that a kid can’t get into it and tall enough that a kid can’t climb it Yes it technically has that quote. Two buttons start already because you have to shut the laundry drum and then close the lid on the machine

 

[me]

One problem will be that kids learn from watching mommy or daddy use the thing, so it's a matter of time before one gets past this. Canada and a few clinics in the US have a "last man out" button that starts a timer when exiting an x-ray or other radiation vault, with the intent that that person assumes responsibility to promise no one else remains in the room. It can still easily be ignored, the hope is that it will make a responsibly person think about whether or not there's someone there. Small children are still learning responsibility like this, so it seems a bit futile to me...

If they make the machine too complicated, parents will end up getting their kids to show them how to work it.

 

[henene4]

Australia has a few regulations for safety that appear weird to me.


Built in refrigerators often have cardboard backsides.
That backside is basically just there for manufacturing: You have your formed plastic "tub" that'll be the inside, a plastic base with mounting points for everything, then sidewalls and a top of some sort. All of that is placed in a box like structure and then any gaps are foamed in for insulation. That foam then basically becomes the structure keeping everything in place. The backside is just there to separate the foam from the box it's foamed in and to contain the expanding foam.

However, besides the foam being pretty flammable itself, AUS does not allow cardboard backsides due to fire resistance laws.
So, they get the same machines, same mechanics, same production - just the backside is basically paper thin steel or aluminium instead of cardboard.


One safety feature I think still isn't universally implemented in top loaders is that if the machine is paused and the lid is opened, that after a certain time an automatic drain is initiated.
That appears way more logical than the two button safety - I only know that from production machines like huge metal presses so that no matter how tired and overworked you are, there is no way for you to initiated that motion with your hand in the machine.
Here, a closed door will just do the same...

 

[mrb627]

If it were me, I would climb in the machine and then start it with the remote app on my phone.
Just kidding, please don't do this kiddos.

 

[phillymatt53]

HEY!
I've got the perfect solution for this!

It's COST SAVING for everyone involved!
It doesn't need any Government Intervention!
It saves the re-tooling costs of manufacturing!
More money in your bank account!

Just don't have kids!
No hefty hospital costs!
No expensive schooling to deal with!
One less mouth to feed, or clothes to buy!
No screaming babies to tend to!

 

[logixx]

If it were me, I would climb in the machine and then start it with the remote app on my phone.

However, you'd have to enable remote start on the machine's control panel after getting in and shutting the door.

Besides, how young would a child have to be to even fit inside a 24" front loader?

 

[phillymatt53]

However, you'd have to enable remote start on the machine's control panel after getting in and shutting the door.

Besides, how young would a child have to be to even fit inside a 24" front loader?

I would tend to think that being inside of all that metal a cellphone wouldn't have any way to send it's commands to the household wifi system.

 

[maytag85]

Even as a small child over 24 years ago, wouldn’t have even bothered since I knew I wouldn’t fit, even knew I wouldn’t have fit in the dryer either.

One argument I’ll have is smaller capacity machines discourage children since the tubs/drums are smaller.

 

[me]

I would tend to think that being inside of all that metal a cellphone wouldn't have any way to send it's commands to the household wifi system.

Glass door.

A bluetooth thermometer, admittedly, not as demanding as wifi, works fine in my fridge (which has a steel back).

 

[phillymatt53]

Even as a small child over 24 years ago, wouldn’t have even bothered since I knew I wouldn’t fit, even knew I wouldn’t have fit in the dryer either.

One argument I’ll have is smaller capacity machines discourage children since the tubs/drums are smaller.

You must have had some early Common Sense.
That's something lacking in today's world.

 

[maytag85]

You must have had some early Common Sense.
That's something lacking in today's world.

Not only that, but I just wasn’t interested into anything risky or dangerous when I was younger, still not interested in doing anything risky or dangerous years later.

‘Risky’ means different things to different people, but the only risky things I’m into is experimenting with doing things slightly different, or being more meticulous with how things are done and so forth.

 

[phillymatt53]

Not only that, but I just wasn’t interested into anything risky or dangerous when I was younger, still not interested in doing anything risky or dangerous years later.

‘Risky’ means different things to different people, but the only risky things I’m into is experimenting with doing things slightly different, or being more meticulous with how things are done and so forth.

You sound a bit like me then. ("doing things slightly different, or being more meticulous")

I tend to do some things in unorthodox ways, my own "design", and as for meticulous, I get obsessed with being perfect.... measuring things to within a fraction of a millimeter, etc.
And utilizing my test equipment to confirm "perfect" operation.
I also build in "stupidity" protections into things like the high quality amplifiers that I've built.
For instance, your amp was shut off at high volume, or turned up while it was OFF. (children playing with things)
Later, you press the power button ON, not realizing or noticing the volume knob is up.... It blasts!... potentially damaging the speakers.
Not my designs!
The speaker relays won't kick in, you have to lower the volume down, wait a second or so..... "Click", relays close, then turn up the volume.
Great if you have young kids that like to play with things when you're not around.

Call me "picky... obsessed" LOL!

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

Australia has a few regulations for safety that appear weird to me.


Built in refrigerators often have cardboard backsides.
That backside is basically just there for manufacturing: You have your formed plastic "tub" that'll be the inside, a plastic base with mounting points for everything, then sidewalls and a top of some sort. All of that is placed in a box like structure and then any gaps are foamed in for insulation. That foam then basically becomes the structure keeping everything in place. The backside is just there to separate the foam from the box it's foamed in and to contain the expanding foam.

However, besides the foam being pretty flammable itself, AUS does not allow cardboard backsides due to fire resistance laws.
So, they get the same machines, same mechanics, same production - just the backside is basically paper thin steel or aluminium instead of cardboard.


One safety feature I think still isn't universally implemented in top loaders is that if the machine is paused and the lid is opened, that after a certain time an automatic drain is initiated.
That appears way more logical than the two button safety - I only know that from production machines like huge metal presses so that no matter how tired and overworked you are, there is no way for you to initiated that motion with your hand in the machine.
Here, a closed door will just do the same...

 

[combo52]

Child safety in relation to washing machines and other major appliances

I suspect we already have laws like that in the US. I can’t think of a single washing machine or dryer that doesn’t require at least two different settings to start it today.

In addition, all of our front load washers and top load washers with lid locks when the machine starts it will move a little bit spray some water in lock and then unlock the door to give us the child chance to be woken up and get out.

Even a 1975 Maytag, a 606 required two separate motions to start it along with about every other washing machine on the market. This type of engineering just makes common sense.

In the early 70s, we initiated the laws on ranges that require two separate motions to turn on any burner or the oven and it hasn’t caused any problems whatsoever and it saved countless injuries and accidents.

Refrigerator fires, are surprisingly common on some cheap refrigerators with plastic or cardboard back panels, even a thin layer of steel will help keep a fire from spreading so I am in favor of making appliances as fireproof as possible.

John L

 

[phillymatt53]

Ages ago, products didn't have any safety features, or minimal ones.
Of course, back "then", electrical codes wern't as strict as today.
Older radios, hi-fi, appliances all were prone to fire risks if something failed, and depended on those old glass fuses in your cellar to pop open.

When I did "restoration" work on a customer's vintage set, I'd install a suitably rated fuse inside, and many times changed the old style power cords to polarized cords/plugs.
I certainly didn't want to deal with any liability issues or lawsuits at the shop.
And, adhering to current safety standards and codes, it just makes sense.

 

[maytag85]

One reason why lid switches were added was not only for safety, but on some machines it allowed you to pause the machine by opening the lid for a soak, closing it to resume the cycle.

Not only a safety feature, but more so of a convenience and feature built-in as standard.

 

[phillymatt53]

One reason why lid switches were added was not only for safety, but on some machines it allowed you to pause the machine by opening the lid for a soak, closing it to resume the cycle.

Not only a safety feature, but more so of a convenience and feature built-in as standard.

Smack me for disabling the lid switch on my Maytag.
If I want to initiate a "soak" period, I just push the timer knob in.
No kids in my house to worry about.

 

[vacerator]

Some old mechanical timer knobs could be pulled outward to stop the machine.

 

[Marky_Mark]

I’m not clear on what this new rule is actually trying to achieve.

Currently, you close the door and then press a button to start the machine.
After July, you’ll need to close the door and press two buttons to start it.

Is this change meant to prevent accidental activations, or to prevent intentional activation by a child when another child is inside the machine? If it’s the latter, it’s hard to see how effective this would be. Any child capable of closing the door, selecting a cycle, and pressing Start is unlikely to be thwarted by having to press one additional, fairly obvious button.

Unless this has changed very recently, dishwashers in Europe still do not require any button press to resume a cycle after the door is opened mid-cycle. You simply close the door when you’re ready and the machine resumes operation.

This contrasts with the USA, where you must press "Resume" and then close the door within 4 seconds. The same difference applies when starting a cycle: in Europe, you can press "Start" and close the door whenever you like, whereas in the USA you must press "Start" and then close the door within 4 seconds.

 

[Marky_Mark]

It would make sense if you currently don't need to press anything on some washers after closing the door -- just select and "Start" a cycle, then climb inside, close the door behind you and the machine will lock and start without pressing anything after closing the door. And while the law makers were at it, they decided to require not just a single press of a button after closing the door, but rather two presses

 

[henene4]

That was what was in my head as well - with tumble dryers, even the basic US designs, it's been a safety standard for half a century (or more) that if you open the door and close it again, you have to press start again, exactly to prevent such accidents.