Baby It Is Cold OutSide!

[duetboy]

Undeground Tank

Digging that old sucker up is on my list of things "To Do" this Spring. With my luck it will be probably a 500 gallon tank and I'll end up with a huge hole in the back yard!

Jeff

PS. Don't worry, I'll make sure it's empty before digging!

 

[michaelman2]

Sandy, we are still about 20 degrees below normal here in Atlanta. Apparently you took the blanket when you moved north? I really do like the cooler weather. I am thankful that my home happens to be older and insulated better than some of the McMansions around...pipes have burst all over Buckhead....lawwwdy!

 

[toggleswitch2]

.
GO MODERN
GO GAS
GO *BOOM*

I didn't mind having had oil in every residential building I resided in save for this one (gas) and the one I was in at 10 years of age.......

We apparently like oil in the northeast. Then again due to ports in/ off of the Atlantic Ocean it can GET to us...........

IIRC the law has changed in my city such that only #2 fuel-oil is permissible on islands, once your system or burner is updated/upgraded. So Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan and Staten Island may no longer use #4 and #6 grade-fuel-oil. Not sure if the Bronx (the only part of NYC connected to the mainland) may continue to use those heavier/dirtier oils.

 

[launderess]

Er, No

At least in large commercial and apartment buildings, burning "bunker fuel", that is heating oil #4 and #6 is still allowed. Our building burns the former, while many UES and UWS buildings burn one or the other.

Will grant you that for one to four family residential homes, #2 is the only fuel oil allowed, unless perhaps one has some sort of grandfathered burner etc...

Large commercial buildings in normally obtain natural gas under a system which allows supply to be stopped should demand increase elsewhere. In which case the burner would have to switch to another fuel or not burn at all.

Other buildingss, simply by virtue of being around so long (think those stately old co-ops on Fifth, Park Avenue, and Central Park West), at first burnt coal, then switched over to oil.

Numbers four and six heating oil are basically one step away from tar. The stuff is so thick it must be heated to move freely and kept circulated in the tank. This fuel is also quite dirty to burn, which accounts for the soot that covers many NYC/Manhattan areas. My window sills and windows are black within a few weeks (if that) after cleaning, because of this soot.

Building owners like #4 and #6 (especially) because it is cheap, very cheap. These fuels are much cheaper than say #2 (residential fuel oil), but natural gas may be cheaper than any of the oils. However there are huge costs in converting to gas that may take years to recoup.

Finally as for homes burning oil in the Northeast; many home owners simply refuse to convert to natural gas, thinking oil is alwasy cheaper. Also many people still believe that natural gas can lead to one's house exploding.

In some areas of the Northeast one has no choice but to burn oil as there aren't natural gas pipelines close, and or pipelines down one's street. The cost of bringing gas to one's home if the pipe runs down the street is dear, but doable. However when you start talking about bringing gas into an area which does not have service, it is probably more than it's worth for both the consumer and gas company. Only way around would be if enough homes and or businesses signed on.

 

[toggleswitch2]

oooh i'm glad we are in full agreement.

My belief is once one changes/updates burner heads one must convert away from to #4 and #6-grade fuel oil.

~My window sills and windows are black within a few weeks (if that) after cleaning, because of this soot.

oh my! A proper lady cleans (or has them cleaned) every week; just ask our Hyacinth. Tisk Tisk the gossip will fly........

 

[toggleswitch2]

~but natural gas may be cheaper than any of the oils.

Cheap menas poor quality or whorish. Did you mean inexpensive less expensive, per chance?

There are brief times when gas FOR SMALL RESIDENTIAL USERS is less expensive than oil. They (the cost of the fuels) tend to dance around each other over the years with one being higher than the other.

In large commeircal /industrial settings it is my belief that the operting/usage costs of natural gas are prohibitive. Many landlord have conveyed this to me. #4 and #6 grade fuel-oil are cheaperr, but tend to soot-up the works and are prone to igniton failures and outages of heat. Indeed a small natural gas feed of 3/4" pipe often goes to large industrial oil-burner heads where natural gas is used to help ignite the horrid #4 and #6 "tar". This is easier than a typical sparking ignitor, (which porvides a spark between two electrodes) and eliminates the need for a high-voltage transformer to generate the spark. These transformers are frequently a source of problems and are prone to failure with extensive use.

In general the dirtier the fuel(or energy source int eh case of electricity) the cheaper it is. In order of cost (high to low) in this area:

ELECTRICITY (but not hydro-electric. Hello Seattle! *WAVES*]
GAS
#2 fuel-oil
#4 fuel-oil
#6 fuel-oil
coal

Of course there are "heavy-usage" cost discounts and penalties depending in the needs/goals of the utility/providers. And one can't always generalize, n'est-ce pas?

 

[toggleswitch2]

With regard to the fluctuating prices of fuel.

It is also my belief that electrical generating utlties switch back and forth depending on cost of fuel.

As such, increasing the demand of the commodity by so much puts upward pressure on prices and the upward slope of supply has to rebalance with the downward slope of demand. The equiilbrium price of the commodity therefore shifts.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Right church, wrong pew.

Not sure of dates / if yet enacted.

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A9253

 

[launderess]

Not as much shifting as before for power plants, as the "tree huggers" have gone to war over burning coal or heavy oil and the resulting emissions. Most plants simply pass the increased cost of natural gas along and we consumers in the end get hit with higher electrical bills.

Con Edison's rates here are all over the place, mainly because much of the power generated/imported to NYS area and NYS comes from natural gas.

Your theory on fuel prices is one given by owners of large commercial buildings burning #4 and #6 heating oil. According to their logic, if everyone began burning #2 heating oil and or natural gas, prices for both would increase.

Again, the reason the heavy weights of heating oil are so cheap is that they really have few uses otherwise. Besides heating in the Northeast, such oil would have been used to power ships, trains (think steam engines), and pave roads (the oil used to make tar).

 

[toggleswitch2]

IMHO, the reason the heavy weights of heating oil are less exensive is that they need less refining. Refining takes time, and a great deal of heat and energy.

Should there be more demand for #2-grade oil and less for #6 oil, more crude oil will simply be put through the refining process. Them demand (in quantity) for the underlying commodity from which both spring forth (crude oil) does not change,overall. Thus, any changes in price are not attributable to changes in demand.

 

[toggleswitch2]

~The cost of bringing gas to one's home if the pipe runs down the street is dear, but doable.

If you want gas and don't have it, the utility on Long Island will run it from the street to your home without charge if three neighbors (i.e. including yoursef) agree to get "new" gas service.

For those that believe gas is so much less expensive than oil (to run), methinks they'd pay for the install. I've seen cases where gas is installed for a boiler and hot water heater, but the gas line-run needed to convert to a gas stove and/or dryer (often at the other end of a residence)is often not done due to plumbing costs.

 

[toggleswitch2]

~How many of you have a carbon monoxide sensor in your house? We got one a few years ago that has a digital readout.

~Fortunately, ours continues to read 0.

The best location for these is near the floor, NOT the ceiling...........

 

[mielabor]

I have always been told that a CO detector must be installed near the ceiling since CO is lighter than air and therefore CO concentrations are highest near the ceiling....

 

[mielabor]

Update

I spoke too soon...

Just found that it doesn't really matter. CO distributes evenly through the room. As CO is usually formed during combustion and initially rises to the ceiling because of the higher temperature. Eventually it will distribute evenly through the room.

 

[duetboy]

Propane Is On The Way

We called the gas company this morning. Their tanks are full, we're on the list for delivery. 14% in a 250 gallon tank at the moment.

Jeff