Battle Creek Garage Sale - Fisher Console 1964

[danemodsandy]

And Just For Grits 'n Giggles....

A 1948 Frigidaire window air conditioner. It wasn't pretty, but it was available, and as you can see, a giant Frigidaire logo hovered outside your house to let everyone know you were living large:

 

[launderess]

RCA/Berkshire Breakfront

Drool, drool.

http://www.mulhollandpress.com/BerkshireBreakfront.htm

 

[ovrphil]

Thanks for that link, Launderess. It's a stunning piece, all around. I wonder if someone in this wide world of expanding billionaires, has one of these and actually enjoys using it now? I would love to see and hear one working. (dream on, I know).

Sandy, those are good links for the Fisher - I came upon those earlier after joining audiokarma.org. My lowly P-294(chassis 125) Fisher isn't listed. Alot of console styles...I'll pass on. But ,for some reason, there are some Fisher and Magnavox French Provincial models that are actually good looking...or I'm getting old and old is looking fresh, again? lol.

 

[launderess]

Fully Loaded

Those behemoths weighed in at 850lbs!

Given today's often smaller homes one has to wonder how many have room for such things?

http://www.videokarma.org/archive/index.php/t-11975.html

 

[launderess]

@ovrphil

Quite honestly cannot remember if it was a Magnavox or whatever. Wasn't allowed to get that close and really had no interest. Each of us children soon had portable record players then each went out and got our own "systems" from either saved up pocket money and or from various odd jobs, so that was that.

Know the thing was still there when one left for college, but a few years after I graduated house was sold so don't know where that huge piece of furniture ended up.

 

[danemodsandy]

That Behemoth.....

....Was, as has been pointed out, extremely heavy, but there was a secret, one I know because my dad worked for RCA.

The Berkshire Breakfront broke down for shipping; there was a bulletin on how to assemble it in situ. I never saw the procedure take place (by the time I came along, all Berkshire Breakfronts were several years old), but I should think at least two moving men and a service tech would have been needed.

Yessir, in those days, you got a little service for your money!

Speaking of service, in the early '50s, when the Berkshire series was no longer made, RCA was still serving the customers who had purchased the units with a new attachment - a 45-rpm changer. The 45 was RCA's answer to CBS's 33-1/3 rpm LP record. The changer for the Berkshire Breakfront was styled to resemble a mahogany tea caddy, and its case was made (by whom I do not know) to the same standards as the rest of the unit. A photo is below. This unit was intended to sit on one of the shelves behind the glass doors of the bookcase.

What company today would go back and produce an attachment for something it made four or five years ago - no matter how expensive the original item was?

None, that's who. [this post was last edited: 7/7/2013-06:03]

 

[twintubdexter]

Will (classiccaprice)...

Get yourself a good Craigslist search engine and just keep looking for that elusive Concert Grand. The trick is finding one in good shape that the owner doesn't want an arm and a leg for. I looked for about 3 years and stumbled on one in Oregon for $40.00 even after I told the lady it was worth more, especially since it looked like it just came out of the box. It cost me $300 to ship but was worth it. You're still a young kid and have plenty of time to hunt.

2 Concert Grands, the more common 40 vacuum tube model like I have and the last solid state model from the 1970's (courtesy of my friend Michael)

 

[ovrphil]

Will / Joe (Twintubdexter): right, and they're out there, but timing is so critical. These get snatched up quickly.

You really caught a great one, Joe - only $40? (sigh)

I found a Magnavox Concert Grand, but I'd be surprised if it was still available. Link is here:

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/fuo/3835013257.html

I'm with Will, but less time on my side.

 

[ovrphil]

Will / Joe (Twintubdexter): right, and they're out there, but timing is so critical. These get snatched up quickly.

You really caught a great one, Joe - only $40? (sigh)

I found a Magnavox Concert Grand, but I'd be surprised if it was still available. Link is here:

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/fuo/3835013257.html

I'm with Will, but less time on my side.

 

[classiccaprice]

One of these days...

That said, I have a really nice micromatic. I'll have to post some pictures soon.

 

[tolivac]

Good to hear that non working RCA Berkshires weren't broken up--just "repurposed"Hope the components found "other" homes.The chrome chassis of the equipment-not the usual RCA components.Guess they are still surviving Berkshires around-and liked the RCA idea of making an add on 45RPM TT in the wood chest.And it was neat that the Berkshire systems came as peices-to be assembled on the customers site.I have had transmitters come that way-you assemble the tubes,vacuum caps,and large transformers into the cabinets.Tubes and vac caps are shipped in their orig manufactuers boxes.I am wondering if the Berkshires were broken down that far for shipping and delivory-the components that go inside that nice cabinet were shipped in seperate boxes to be installed in the cabinets.Would make sense and assure safe delivory.Then a delivory team brings the unit to the customers house ands sets it up.Would be nice to find one of those-would be glad to make room for it.And did RCA make provisions to convert the Berkshire to stereo?Another way to assure they would survive.Would hate to see a beautiful Hi-Fi like that succumb to obselencence becuase it couldn't be converted to stereo-and bet the Berkshire cabinets were used to hold other components if it couldn't be converted thru RCA.

 

[danemodsandy]

Rex:

You have to understand, the Berkshire Breakfront predated hi-fi, let alone stereo. It came new with a 78 rpm changer, an AM-FM radio and the projection TV. Large CRTs, remote controls, LP records, 45 rpm records, hi-fi and stereo were all in the future - some in a nearer future than others, it is true.

What RCA was selling was the finest quality it could supply at the time, plus that magnificent cabinetry.

As with most console entertainment centers, updates would not have been possible without major alterations; the mounting and surrounds for each component would have had to be replaced along with the equipment. Considering that those pieces were solid Honduras mahogany of a grade acceptable to the Baker Furniture people, the material and woodworking expense that would have been needed for upgrades would have been considerable.

If I understand correctly, most components in a Berkshire Breakfront were already mounted when the unit was delivered. The exception was the TV unit, which had moving components to make its screen rise up out of the bottom unit into the top unit. The bottom and top sections were delivered as separate pieces, then joined together, then the TV unit's moving components could go into place. I'm told that the last step in delivery was the careful polishing-away of every last finger mark.

As awesomely beautiful as Berkshire Breakfronts were, and as wonderfully as they represented the state-of-the-art in 1948, they were, frankly, a bad investment. The state-of-the-art advanced so rapidly in the early '50s that these gorgeous units were technologically obsolete within four years, when large-size CRTs became practical, and dinosaurs by the time they were six years old, when color TV and hi-fi were introduced.

 

[tolivac]

Thats too bad the RCA Berkshires only had a 78RPM TT and an older TV set.The 45RPM player might give better fidelety-but don't count on it.Its iffy with 45's-often they were injection molded rather than pressed as LP's were.The 45 RPM can give excellent fidelity if properly pressed and made.Most were made for "AM" broadcast airplay and jukeboxes in their prime years.I was thinking that when stereo and HI-Fi came about the Berkshire cabinet could be used and "repurposed" to hold later components after the RCA ones were removed.Sounds like an expensive unit for just a AM-FM tuner,TV,and 78RPM TT.As was said most of the cost went into the beautiful cabinet-made of real wood rather than particleboard,plastic or cheap plywood.-and that hideous vinyl "wood" laminate.So today the Berkshire cabinet would esp be valueable among fine furniture fans.In 1948 or so the mono 33rpm LP records were just starting to be introduced.Beleive it was from both RCA and CBS.Maybe RCA should have made a 33/78RPM TT to replace the 78 RPM one.That would make Berkshire owners feel a little better.I am wondering what kind of speakers the Berkshires had.

 

[twintubdexter]

Rex/tolivac...

Right you are about the quality of 45's when you compare early ones with the cheaper "new" versions. At one time I had 3 or 4 of those little RCA 45 changers. The older records were no problem but newer or cheap re-pressings were a problem. Sometimes the hole had to be sandpapered in order for it to fit over the spindle. In addition, those little changers used the record thickness to accurately drop each disc. Some newer 45's wouldn't drop at all. The sound quality wasn't that great either, even when played on a quality component stereo turntable.

Is anyone old enough (like me, sigh) to remember those 12" LP-sized 45 rpm records from the disco era? Those things sounded just great!

 

[tolivac]

Disco 45

Yes,remember those and have a couple somewhere in my records.Got'em from the radio station I used to work for-and "Audiophile" record companies were experimenting with the 12" 45's because they claimed the quality was better than 33.Haven't tried them-the 45 RPM audiophile records are now very rare.
I have a portable 45RPM RCA record player that has the 45 changer in it-found at a yard sale-just haven't played around with it-would be good for those 45's I got from various radio stations.The station records are not too bad.Many 45's made for them have the same song on both sides of the record-one side stereo for FM,other mono for AM.Course with most station equipment -didn't matter.Broadcast equipment dealers stopped providing mono station equipment even back in the early 70's.Mixer consoles used by stations by that time had a stereo line out for the FM,and mono for AM.And of course mono pads were common-convert stereo to mono for the AM.
Oh yes,disco "DJ's" of the 70's era liked the 45 RPM records.Just easier for them and longer playing time than the 7" 45 "donut" records.And home changer users could use them on their changers WITHOUT the 45 adaptor!

 

[firedome]

those wonderful Berkshires

didn't exactly pre-date Hi-Fi... Avery Fisher had begun turning out his early products around 1938, James B. Lansing formerly of Western Electric All Technical Services (later Altec/JBL) introduced his Iconic speaker, later known as the Voice of the Theater, around 1940, Paul Klipsch was producing his earliest Klipschorns in a glorified shed in Arkansas around 1946, HH Scott was producing his earliest amplifiers by '48, and Brook in NY (Paul Klipsch's favorite, and used in his dealer and show demos) introduced their wonderful model 10 and 12 2A3 and 300b based Triode amplifiers around 1947... and there are other examples. These units could be considered some of the earliest true High Fidelity products. As beautiful, rare and expensive as the RCA was, it would not compete soundwise with a true HiFi component system that was possible to assemble by 1948/9, particularly in speaker technology vis a vis Altec, Klipsch etc. Frank McIntosh with his first 50w2 2 chassis amp was in Silver Spring MD in 1949, moved to Binghamton NY in 1952, and Saul Marantz in NY introduced his Model 2. The HiFi race was on.

We had Fisher Futura and President systems around 12-15 yrs ago when they were easier to find, subsuquently broken up, unfortunately, as we were space-challenged not console-enlightened, at the time.

 

[danemodsandy]

Roger:

You obviously have a depth of knowledge about early Hi-Fi that I don't have. I knew there was an "early adopter" movement in the '40s, but as a layperson, I think of Hi-Fi as really beginning around '54 or '55, when high fidelity began being marketed to the mainstream consumer.

I really appreciate all this info - is there a Website somewhere with more info?

P.S.: You coulda gone all day without telling me you scrapped a Fisher console! ;-)

 

[firedome]

Early adopters

of HiFi back then were generally engineers and that sort, kind of of analogous to computer nerds of the '70s and their early Altairs, and similar to the types who have to buy the latest smart phones every 6 months these days...

We do have a little knowledge of eary audio, as former Writer/Editor of a tube audio magazine for a number of years, it's really our main thing, but do have appreciation for all older and better made cars, appliances, etc. and still have a small vintage audio collection, the residual of a room full of the stuff we used to have, but now hugely downsized to a very few pieces really and truly loved (and used!)

Feel guilty to this day about scrapping those consoles, probably 10 or more over period 10 to 25 years ago, but least their guts have gone on to new homes and continue to make music... not many folks then, or now, have the room to collect consoles, many of which we got for free, and when trying to sell them intact we rarely had interest at any price, a true shame. One of the sets of our console innards went to Bob Carver, a great guy, and the guts of our President went to Al Pugliese "The Fisher Doc" in NYC, a friend of Avery Fisher and probably the world's leading authority on Fisher. A very good home indeed.

RCA made some excellent commercial/theater/movie type audio products from the '30s to '50s, but not much great stuff for strictly domestic use, however of all the home console radio/Hi-Fi we've ever seen (and we've seen more than a few going back to TOL McMurdo Silvers, Zenith Stratospheres, E.H. Scotts and the like of the '30s), the RCA Berkshire takes the cake for sheer magnificence, never seen cabinetry of that quality on any audio product... c'est formidable!

 

[firedome]

vintage HiFi websites:

Sandy one good one for delving into audio history and James B. Lansing and Altec Lansing's contributions in particular is:

http://www.audioheritage.org

I have some print articles from our former magazine (Vacuum Tube Valley) that give the best overview of the History of High Fidelity that I've ever seen, written by Scott Frankland, a major audio industry player. Be happy to send them to you, if you'd like to read them I can't PM here but you can contact me via eMail, Robert(Unimatic) has it, I'd prefer not to post it in public forum for obvious reasons!

 

[twintubdexter]

third time on ebay, no takers

This interesting vintage RCA @$200 in Chicago just won't sell. I've seen a couple of "distressed" ones sell on CList for more.