Bleach

[sparkymarky1973]

Hi Guys

Have another question.

For our dining room table I use "real" table cloths rather than the plastic wipe clean ones you can get. I just think it gives it an old fashioned look and I think it looks much nicer.

Now of course I get all sorts of stains on them (Mainly because Andrew tends not to keep his food on his plate!) Anyway I have tried to boil wash them but because I don't own a "modern" washing machine I dont have the luxury of a 3 hour wash at a held temperature. Im currently using the Hoover 3060 as the front loader when I want to do boil washes but although its a great machine because its vintage the boil wash lasts an hour but nearly all of that time is heating time. Once it reaches the temp it quickly advances on and you dont get hardly any wash time at the 95 degree temp.

Im finding I still have stains even after a boil wash!

So I decided I wanted to add bleach to the wash. Now all I had was "toilet" bleach. I thought if I was using bleach the tablecloths wouldnt need such a hot wash so I chose the speed queen to use the bleach in. Now I know I SHOULDN'T use the thick bleach but at the time its all I had. Well it worked!
I will not be using it again as I know it will damage the fabric if I use it regulary and probably damage the machine...so.......

Our American friends have bottles of chlorine bleach to use. I know we have ACE and I have used it in the past but for me it did nothing.

So at last..My question is.. Can I use say the cheap thin bleach like Tescos (Rob had to say Tescos) "value" bleach as our substitute for the proper laundry bleach? Someone I know uses it on their maintenance wash in their machine with no apparent damage to the machine.

As I tend to do most of our washing in the speed queen I would like to add some bleach to my "whites" as I mostly use liquid detergent. Oh yes another question...Is it ok to add bleach when using liquid detergent as they can't get bleach in the liquid. Will it still work or will it do something when mixed with the liquid detergent?

Thanks for any advice

Mark

 

[2drumsallergy]

Liquid Chlorine Bleach

Hi Mark,
I have a Whirlpool 3LSC8255EQ1 DD Top Loader. Yes thin bleach is the correct bleach for Top Loaders. Use about 200-250Mls 1 cup per full load in the Speed Queen; also use a liquid detergent as the Oxygen bleaching agents in powdered detergents react with Chlorine bleach rendering both ineffective. I use Lidl Betazone bleach in the Whirlpool. I find it stronger than Tescos thin bleach and much cheaper, the last time I bought some it was £1.29 for 5 Litres.

Chlorine bleaching can over time damage fabrics but 1 cup to a full load in your Speed Queen should not cause problems as it's well diluted.

There is no doubt that LCB will remove certain stains like Tomato Ketchup on Cotton or Linen better than any detergent.

I hope this helps.

David

 

[toggleswitch]

Stop stratching already!

Beware of cheap bleach. IMHO The better brands are a great investment and bargain in the long-run since I believe one's clothing and linens will not be eaten away (as fast).

~Is it ok to add bleach when using liquid detergent?
Yes regular detergent (without oxygen bleach) and chlorine bleach can be used in the same tub of water. It is customary, however, to wait until the last 5 minutes of the wash phase to add the chlorine bleach. Each chemical interferes with the other and degrades its performance otherwise.

When using chlorine bleach it is important to rinse very well! Chlorine bleach may cause an embarassing and annoying irritation to one's southern regions when used on personal undergarmants such as tighty-whities.

I do a pre-wash (using what is lableled "SHORT WASH") in my front-loading FridGeMore to consist of a
WASH- with detergent and phospates. [The www.thechemistrystore.com SodiumTriPolyPhosphate]
BLEACH RINSE-
BLEACH WITH WHITE VCINEGAR To chemically neutralize the bleach (ACID + BASE / ALKALINE ==> yields SALT + WATER).

This is then followed by a regular wash cycle with extra rinses and with minimal detergent. Even without a boil-wash I could probably win any 1950's "Her whites are whiter-then-white" contest!

Glad to hear you tablecloth is looking better!

 

[aquarius1984]

Tescos

is that cos you know we are the best? LOL! That Ace stuff is awful I know. I sometimes add a dose to Mums whites when she aint looking, all it does is froth up. Now you know my answer to the best whites. 95degrees is part of it along with the Quartz or Microtronic but you also need 120ml of P£*$|L non biological too, lol! Forget the bleach I say! Let us know how you get on. That thin bleach is great to splash all around the bathroom after cleaning it with regular cleaner. I just love the smell of the stuff. Also use it after running a 70deg maintenance wash (empty with 2 Finish Tablets added after the hot prewash) in the dishwasher. 28 minute 35deg quickwash with a good drop now and again does wonders. Rob

 

[tomturbomatic]

You know that you do not want to use bleach in a heated wash because you can damage parts of the machine. I don't know if you have laundry pre-treaters like Shout and a couple of other products, but applying a pre-treater to the stains and letting it sit a while before washing will take care of most stains. The one I use is a jelly like substance and easy to smear on fabrics.

After you have cleaned your table cloths, you might try something that a friend of mine uses for her fine linens. She sprays them with Scotch Guard fabric protectant and water proofing spray. You have to do it either outside with the table cloth over the clothes line, or else on clean papers spread out on the floor in a much larger area than the tablecloth because any overspray makes the floor slicker than wet ice. She sprays them twice, letting them dry between applications. Then, spills just sit on the fabric until they are wiped away. It greatly prolongs the time the cloth stays clean on the table. It would have been nice to have had Scotch Guard when my parents used the linen and Bruges lace banquet set. There are lace insets in the cloth and napkins and a deep lace border. Laundering it was a real production and only mom could iron it. Nobody who was employeed to iron wanted to take the risk of damaging it. She covered the floor around the ironing board with new butcher's wrap or newsprint. Plastic film was put on top of that where the damp linen rested on one side of the ironing board and the ironed linen rested in gendle folds on the paper as it came off the other side and only half of the width fit on the board. I suppose now with professional services that specialize in cleaning fine fabrics, it would be possible to have it done by someone else, but it would probably cost hundreds of dollars each time.

 

[panthera]

Chlorine Bleach

Two important aspects of using chlorine bleach which I learned on this site:
1) It is equally effective in cold water as in hot.
2) It does all the "bleaching" possible in five minutes. After that, no further bleaching is done but fabric damage - which begins immediately - increases rapidly.

There are many better ways to cope with stains (best is to prevent them) than chlorine bleach. The enzyme based products now on the market for "baby's needs" (don't you just love euphemisms?) are really good at removing nasty stains.
Oxygen bleaches, used properly, bleach. The trick is to follow the directions exactly.

Really, that older washer should be perfect for enzymes and oxygen bleaches - just let it heat to about 45C and turn off for 20 minutes. Then let it ramp up to 60C and turn off again for 20 minutes. The first time, you are giving the enzymes an ideal environment to eat stains; the second time you are 'activating' the oxygen bleach. Finally, if you feel you must, run on up to boil...

If you are dead set on chlorine bleach, then try adding it - much diluted - to the first rinse. This is the cycle to which it is added in the American versions of the Electrolux washing machines we talk about so much here. Of course, it will quickly kill any machine with aluminum parts in it, but I suspect that was the intention of the manufacturers to begin with.
After using chlorine bleach, I would really run another set of rinses, with vinegar spirits added to the first rinse.

I've seen Scotchguard in London, in Germany there are dire warnings not to use it around birds animals or people with respiratory problems...outside if possible. Stuff sure does work, though...

 

[brisnat81]

Try a product like Vanish Oxy Action

I've never used Chlorine bleach in my whites the whole time I've lived away from home. When I had a Top load machine, I would add two capfulls of Oxygen bleach with my normal detergent, fill with hot water (about 50degC) agitate for 5 mins and then turn off and let sit overnight. There was nothing that that process couldnt get rid of and didnt require pre-treatment.

Now with a FL machine, I've only had to add oxygen bleach twice, once on Tableclothes and napkins after some messy guests and the other when I managed to spill pasta sauce on a white work uniform. I usually add a normal dose of Drivematic (Unilever product), which is laden with Phosphates and according to Choice a great performer, but very bad for the environment. That and a long 50deg wash gets rid of 95% of all stains.

The two times that I've had to use Oxygen bleach, I've added a normal dose of Drivematic and a capfull of oxygen bleach, 2 hours later at 50degC and there have been no stains left behind. If you get the time and temperature right, oxygen bleach does just as good of a job and chlorine and there is no risk of damaging the fabric over time.

 

[sudsmaster]

A bleach is a bleach is a bleach

Clorox (considered a quality brand) sells what it calls "regular" chlorine bleach. It's basically 6% sodium hypochlorite with the balance water. Clorox also sells other types of bleaches, such as "germicidal" (which has some bactericidal additions, not really needed but I guess it sells some), and "fabric care" (which I suppose has some ingredients to slow down the bleaching action). Other formulations might include thickener to help the bleach adherse to smooth surfaces, like toilet bowls.

My theoretical take on the regular "thin" chlorine bleach is that brand X is just as good as Clorox regular as long as Brand X has 6% sodium hypochlorite. It's that simple. Now, it may be that Brand X might have been sitting in a warehouse for fifty years and lost some of its chlorine to evaporation and diffusion through the walls of the plastic bottles, so it might not be full strength. It may also be that the mfg. lied when it slapped 6% on the ingredient label, and it's not up to that standard. But that kind of thing would probably be actionable, and personally if I suspected that, I'd just add a little more of Brand X to get the chlorine level to where I want it.

However, I haven't used chlorine bleach in a washer for about eight years. When I did, I found it really didn't help all that much with getting stains out. STPP and enzymatic powder detergents seem to work much better, as well as hot water.

While chlorine bleach can be effective in cold water, it is more powerful in hot water (like most such things). In fact it might be too powerful in hot water, which is why most modern washers automatically add the bleach with a shot of cold water at the end of the wash part of the cycle, and leave it in only a few minutes before draining and rinsing.

I do use bleach for certain jobs - like removing stains from a plastic-type shower floor pan. I just cleaned it thoroughly with soap and water, and maybe a phosphoric acid scum/descaler bathroom cleaner (got it at a janitorial supply place), rinsed VERY well, and then poured some chlorine bleach on the surface to be cleaned. Result: long term nagging black stains in the rough surface of the floor pan were finally removed... which is nice. Next time I do it, though, I'm going to use baking soda to help neutralize any traces of the phosphoric acid cleaner before using the bleach.

 

[launderess]

Factors affecting LCB for laundry stain removal and whitening are water pH, temperature and contact time.

As often stated by Moi, LCB does not require prolonged contact time for whitening and stain removal, unlike oxygen bleaches. The bleaching action of LCB takes place in about five minutes in warm or cold water, slightly less in hot water. Excess contact time will NOT increase stain removal/whitening, but can lead to damage of textiles.

Reason LCB is added late to wash cycles on domestic washing machines is a combination of the above, and the fact that LCB interferes with some chemicals found in modern laundry detergents (enzymes,OBAs mainly). There is a saying in the commercial laundry business "wash cycle is for washing, and the bleach cycle is for bleaching". Which means commercial laundries most always run a separate bleach cycle after the wash water has been drained. Domestic washers mimic this by adding LCB to the first rinse after the wash cycle. Again, these cycles are always short as contact time does not need to be that great. Whereas on some badly stained laundry, one might wish a very long wash time.

Commercial laundries when using LCB, including for sanitation purposes, carefully monitor water pH, and level of bleach in the bath. You want enough bleach to remove stains/whiten, along with killing germs, but not so high as to damage textiles. There are dry chlorine bleaches sold to commercial laundries that are made for "reclaiming" badly stained linens. These bleaches are VERY strong, but the rationale goes the items in question are destined for the rag bin anyway if they cannot be salvaged, so little is lost.

As for stain removal, have found little need for LCB as my Miele will do a boil wash, and when enough oxygen bleach is added stains will shift. However one has to know what stains one is dealing with and treat accordingly. For instance certain stains should be rinsed/flushed in cold water then a warm wash (with enzymes) gradually heated to boiling, or a warm pre-wash then a boil wash.

Spot treating a stain with LCB, then laundering the item with an oxygen bleach containing detergent will have the benefit of removing the stain (in most cases), and the oxygen bleach will cancel out the LCB, which helps in keeping textiles in good condition, however this process can lead to the treated area appearing whiter than the surrounding fabric.

When using any sort of chlorine bleach on textiles it cannot be stressed enough that the product needs to be rinsed totally from the fabric, and a anti-chlor bath (adding white vinegar to the rinse bath is fine). Chlorine bleach does not rinse well from textiles, especially cotton and linen. The residue will continue acting on textile fibres, causing damage in the form of lost strength and holes. If you can still smell bleach after the last rinse, then there is still bleach in the textiles.

As for using LCB in European front loaders, Miele tech told us that it is not so much the stainless steel drums affected by LCB, but the various sensors within the machine which come into contact with any water in the drums. Miele did say using LCB every once in awhile probably wouldn't cause harm, but routine use should be avoided.

As for storage of LCB,most sources state that after six months LCB looses strength and should be discarded and replaced with fresh. Sources also state it is a good idea to purchase LCB from stores that have a good product turn around, to avoid purchasing old stock to begin with. Have hunch this could be one of the reasons so many commercial laundries use dry chlorine bleach.

Germ Killing Bleach

Any product sold in the United States supposed to kill germs must have an EPA number somewhere on the label. If you look carefully not all bottles of Clorox or indeed many other bleaches now carry this EPA number. Same goes for various pine oil products. If they claim to disinfect, look for the EPA registration number on the label, if it is not there, the product does not contain enough pine oil to do the job.

 

[sparkymarky1973]

Hi Guys

WOW! I wasn't expecting such a response. Thank you all very much for your advice and comments.

David

I went and got some Lidl Parazone bleach last night aswell as the Surf. Its dropped dramatically in price! 5 litres was 69p. You cant ask for a better bargain!

Toggle

Thanks for the advice on washing my tighty-whities as I would use bleach on them. Think I will try one load and see what happens. Andrew dosnt like the white ones so its just me that wears them. He is the one who would most likely be affected as his skin is much more sensitive than mine. I had no idea about the vinegar so thats very interesting.

Rob

Of course I had to mention Tescos! Wouldnt dream of mentioning another supermarket! I also love the smee of bleach after cleaning work surfaces etc. As soon as I smell it I just think of "Clean". I will be using the quartz after christmas but at the moment I cant get to it as its buried.

Tom

I had never thought of Scotch Guard but that sounds a great Idea. When I had my flat my sofa was scotch guarded and it made so much difference when I spilt my drink when I had had had a few to many! Thanks.

Panthera

The old machine is good but its located in the garage so I have to go round the outside of the house to get to it. It would be a bit of a pain stopping and starting it. Also I would have to be constantly going out to see if it was on the first rinse to add it. Thank you for your suggestions though. I did use a bio prewash for the cloths. Also I have the machine as cold fill only to give enzymes more of a chance but unfortunately the stains still remained. I had also soaked them overnight beforehand.

Brisnat

Although Vanish may be good I refuse to pay the extreme price for it! Its rediculously priced over here. A bottle of 5 litres of bleach cost me 69p last night so ill go with that. Dont know why they charge so much!

Sudsmaster

Yes I also believe Bleach is bleach. The bleach I purchased last night though says it has 5% so not sure how good it will be. Time will tell. I will the bleach with warm water so that should help.

Laundress

Thank you for your detailed information. There where many points I didnt realise that you mentioned. The wash time on the speed queen is 10 1/2 minutes (not sure where the extra 1/2 minute comes from, guess its the timer slightly out) so not sure if to wait the 5 minutes or just add it when the wash starts and hope the extra 5 minutes won't damage things too much? I also didn't realise that the bleach continues to attack the fabric if not rinsed properly. The vinegar thing never even entered my head so I will remember that now.

Thank you all once again for your help. I now feel confident I can use bleach properly and that I wont be damaging items or constantly scratching.

Mark
x

 

[aquarius1984]

Tesco Value Bleach

is 6% chlorine. Slightly stronger than the Lidl stuff by the looks of it. I just had a look for you while im in work. Rob x

 

[sparkymarky1973]

Rob

Thank you very much for that mate. Once Lidls is finished I will have to go to Tescos! More profits for you!

Mark
x

 

[sudsmaster]

The Clorox web site says that diluted bleach mixtures should be used immediately as they decompose to salt in a few hours.

It also says to replace stored bleach on an annual basis (not every six months).

 

[launderess]

Clorox Said What?

Pipe:

Google Search

 

[westyslantfront]

As I like Mexican detergent and fabric softener, I also like Mexican bleach. It is called "Chloralex" and they also make a great bathroom cleaner.

Ross

 

[sudsmaster]

Clorox said what?

"Q. What is the shelf life of Clorox® Regular-Bleach?

A. Clorox® Regular-Bleach should be replaced every year and stored as directed for optimum performance."

http://www.clorox.com/products/faqs.php?prod_id=clb#faq7

And,

"Bleach solutions need to be made fresh daily. Once diluted, bleach breaks down quickly-mainly into salt and water."

http://www.clorox.com/products/usage.php?prod_id=clb

Nevertheless, the link Laundie provided is informative, esp with regard to mfg dates and more detailed shelf-life rates of degredation.