Bob Load Thread anyone?

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gws history and bob load

What is the history of whirlpool's new global wash system (gws?) What changes were made and how well do they do on a bob load? I have always wondered how engineered their motors and their entire wash system. seems very effective. I wonder how it will do on a bob load.
 
kenmore version

I have the Kenmore version of the whirlpool dishwasher filter system and it cleans very well. I can't believe how well it cleans despite cleaning the filter 4 times a year. Must be exceptional engineering at whirlpool for sears. I guess the pumps must be beefier for whirlpool/Kenmore specs.
 
Good evening guys and gals,

Here’s my loaded Maytag dishwasher. Not the dirtiest load, not the biggest load. May not qualify as a Bob load. Before, during and after pics. I love that machine. I had a Bosch dishwasher in the previous home. Moved to this house, and it had the Fisher Paykel dish drawers. Hated them. They broke down twice in a year. Threw them out and got the Maytag. I always use the Auto cycle. No extra option selected. No heat dry. Everything comes out clean. Prewash, wash and two rinses. About 1h35 running time. I leave the upper rack in the lower position all the time. Everything fits, tall glasses, tall plates, cookie sheets. Enjoy the pictures.

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Henrik, yes it would be allowed. Options selected have no influence as to whether a load qualifies/disqualifies for BobLoad certification. It's solely how "loaded" the dishwasher is as well as just how dirty/filthy the dishware/cookware is.

In fact, the need to intensify the bottom rack means there must be some pretty grungy stuff down there.
 
Well

Since currently living alone, my dishes have been sitting since monday pretty much.
I usually have the DW closed so stuff dosen't dry in to much, but have been deliberatley leaving the door open for the past few days.

Load is pretty much full by now. Just scraped stuff, so lots of dried in sauces like ketchup, mayo, salad dressing etc.
Some pans.
Cuttlery as well, of course.
Oh, and (while this is somewhat cheating) I added some choclate spread to the bottom of an especially tall cup that sits in the right front upper rack corner 3 days ago as a somewhat tribute to the peanutbutter test some time ago.

Just letting it sit another night and then running it tomorrow with some odds thrown in, so look forwards to the first real test for the G7100!
 
The time has come

Dunno how I could have fitted much more in there.

I decided against the Auto cycle and went with the Normal 60C (140F) cycle with intense zone.

While the pans are more greasy than burnt, the plates and bowls are dried in solid.

So some of everything.

Detergent is a Miele Ultra tab.

Machine just started, so lets see how this turns out!

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Wanna let the dishes sit a little longer before unloading

So a cycle summary.

I chose Normal instead of Auto because it pretty much is just a full-power Auto cycle.

Timed the cycle:

Pre-Rinse: 20min, cold, medium-ish spray pressure.

Main-Wash: 1h 10min; about 5min of filling, dispensing detergent, then about 15min of heating with a 10min higher pressure phase for the lower rack (just short switches to the upper rack) right after heating followed by about 40min of pulsed washing with varying pressures and equal time for both racks. (So Intense Zone basicly just adds tha additional wash time in the lower rack.)
I think it re-heated about 20min after the first heating cause I heared a relay clicking.

Interim rinse: About 15min, non-pulsed (so full fill) with same pressure as prerinse.

Final Rinse: About 20min, uncertain temp. The manual states a temp range from 55C to 70C (130F to 160F), yet final rinse times are awefully consistent.

Active Sensor Drying: Here the time jumped up by like 20min (it dropped here and there during the cycle, but the timer stalled as well a couple of times).
I tink part of how this works is that it dosen't heat to a specific temp during the final rinse but instead uses the "guided energy usage" they introduced with their washers a few years back.
Basicly it heats until it used a certain amount of energy is used. Then it adjusts the drying time based on the temperature of the room (it checks that at the begining of the cycle using the main NTC in the sump), the load sensed and the temperature reached during final rinse.
Here it dried for 29min.

AutoOpen drying: I think the DW calculates how long it needs to do active drying until it can safely open the door and then opens the door with a fixed time left as this stage seems to last basicly exactly the same time every time.
It drains, opens the door and lets the fan run a little longer (here 5min).
After some time it just switches the fan off and sits around.
If you unlatch the door while the machines isn't done yet it asks you to close the door; once you closed the door it dosen't open the door again incase lets say you are cooking and the door is in the way and just counts down to the end.
In total this stage lasted for 24min.

So the entire cycle lasted about 2h 57min, significantly longer than estimated at the beginning, but that isn't verry uncommon for this machine at this time of the year it appears.
We'll see if that changes in the summer.

One thing I notice is that this DW kicks of a significant amount of heat into the room during drying.
My kitchen is rather small (like 10 meters squared - like 110 ft squared - with 240cm/8ish ft ceeling) but I used condensation drying DW with water pockets in smaller kitchens they never made it feel quite this warm.
 
Here the results

Pretty pleased, everything including the 5 day dried in ketchup was gone completely.

There was one little jibble of soaked meat residue in the airfryer basket.
Keep in mind though that I had the basket insert in the outer part AND that was in the upper rack AND basicly within that basket I had loaded one of the porcelain bowls so it was totaly shielded from every direct spray.

Couldn't catch the displayed usage, but since it didn't do the water softener recharge it was about 12-14l and 1-1.2kWh from a cold water feed.
 
 
Not much of a BobLoad® but it's what I had for this morning.

Pics 1, 2, 3, 4 is not debris in the plastic container, it's a bit of melting.  Employees sometime bring lunch from home and leave the containers (sometimes dirty) in the stockroom.  I snatch them after several weeks of negligence.  (A chlorine bleach soak is applied if needed).

The drain filter is from the lower drawer.  I clean them when needed by running through a cycle.

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Cleaning the filter

Wow Glenn, what a great idea, here I've been manually cleaning the filter with liquid dish soap and a forceful blast of hot water with the sprayer. Your method easy with a 2 drawer Dish Drawer. Lately I've been noticing how people around me are so smart! Others can have a better solution. Now I just need to remember this next time!
 
DaDoes - I'm not sure if I've made this remark before, but I LOVE those stoneware plates you have. My Mamaw and Papaw always had that exact plate and pattern, and everytime I see your dishwasher full, I have a little spark of joy thinking about them. I have no idea where those dishes went after they passed away back in 2011 and 2012. I'm actually working on building up a collection of the Mountain Brook(?) stoneware and the classic Corelle and Corning dishware they and some of my family had growing up.
 
Stereo WP Power-Clean DWs

Well being home and cooking and eating at home a lot a funny thing happened Sunday, I noticed that I was running out of glasses and forks and spoons etc. With two DWs I usually load one and unload the other but some how I loaded DW#2 and never ran it and now DW#1 was nearly full as well.

 

So last evening at exactly 9:15 I started both DWs, they are 14 feet apart, so I start one than the other and I go back and pause the 1st one for 5 seconds to get them synchronized, then you get to sit back and listen as they both go through the cycle in perfect synchronization.

 

Both DWs are pleasantly quite but you can still hear what is happening [ I would NEVER have a silent DW as it is actually dangerous ] I had a customer 12 years ago with a Bosch DW that the fill valve stuck open on. The customer had an instantaneous gas water heater and it flooded the basement apartment with more than 12" of all hot water, the DW continued to fill for almost 6 hours. Finally the fire&smoke alarms went off and woke her up, even though her bedroom was less than 12 feet away from the DW she said she never heard a thing. I told her that the Bosch was an easy fix as it was just a bad fill valve, she said Hell-NO get me a DW that you can hear so in went one of the last of the KM power-clean style DWs. [ The Bosch did over $60,000 worth of damage to the house as all the water was hot and the steam destroyed even the drywall on the basement ceilings ]

 

But back to the Stereo WPs, both DWs finished at 10:10 PM and started into the air-dry cycles. I estimate that each DW used between .8 and 1 KW of power and each used around 12 gallons of 130F water hasted by my storage type NG fired water heater.

 

You will see that my tableware does not practice Social Distancing , I love the convince of just dropping hand fulls of dirty silverware in the baskets, the day that I have the time to sort and arrange dirty spoons, forks and knives in the silly top trays of many newer DWs in when I will be ready for the funny farm, I think I would rather fold dirty socks and underwear than handle all the dirty tableware, LOL

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OK, let me try again.....

 

 

After my honey made Chicken Adobo for dinner tonight, there was enough stiff dirtied since running the Bosch yesterday morning, to justify running it again this evening.

 

Let's see of I can manage to get BobLoad certified this time (fingers crossed)!
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Photo progression:

1. some of the dirty stuff

2. starting to load the lower rack

3. the loaded lower rack

4. the upper rack

5. rack #3

6. the door

7. the detergent (in this case Somat brand my friend Mark brought me from Spain)

8. cycle settings

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F&D dishdrawers

I still miss mine it was sold on as I was having trouble finding powdered detergent and the pods and tablets were too strong and causing foam etc so went back to a boring dishwasher, Having said that I do prefer the top tray for cutlery as you never have to touch the dirty part just the clean handles but its what ever you are used to I guess?
 
Milky water

Hi Henene4,

Your air fryer had quite a bit of residual water which looked milky. I would say that this load needed an extra rinse cycle.

I programmed in an extra interim rinse and water plus through the service mode as I was experiencing this with my G6827.

All good now. The results are great.

Cheers
Rod

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Loading Flatware

The Flatware baskets on our WP DWs are very easy to load in or out of the DW, you never have to touch anything but the handles whether the items are dirty or clean.

 

I usually load from 1-6 pieces of FW at a time and when you just have one dirty spoon etc you only have to open the door a few inches and drop the item from countertop height [ approximately 36" above the floor ] you do not have to open the and pull the top FW rack all the way out to put one teaspoon in its perfect spot.

 

Poor rinsing is a major problem on many new very water efficient DWs, try setting a glass upright in the DW during the last rinse or take a turkey baster and suck water out of the sump after the DW has run and see what the water looks like, and would you drink what you see ?, and this cloudy water is dried all over your [ clean ] dishes, this is the main reason that a lot of newer DWs stink after they sit a while between runs.

 

John L.

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Finish rinse aid

Hi Henene4,

Have you tried using other rinse aids which don't have colour? There is Finish 0% or Miele. I've been using the DM brand and it's really good.
 
Milky Water and Miele

I have been using my Miele G 7590 SCVi K2O AutoDos more than one year (I even bought it in Germany, since they were later available in Switzerland). Previously I have used a Miele G 6995 SCVi K2O and for a very long time a 45cm width basic Siemens (from 2005) as well as V-Zug Adora S 55 (from 2004) and Adora 12 SL (from 1996). In another place I am using a fully integrated V-Zug Adora S from 2013.

The Miele G7000 is a beautiful dishwasher, nowadays still best quality for the private consumer market, V-Zug‘s new Line is just behind, while BSH is best price-value but quality in my opinion just ok. Far behind all the Electrolux and Bauknecht dishwashers when it comes to built quality.

I like the smooth sliding racks of the Miele (same does new V-Zug have), especially lower basket, the user interface (very straight forward), sleek design of interior including new pump and sump system and the AutoDos which is really convenient. My kitchen is without handles and I needed a model with automated door opening, that’s why I could not go with V-Zug. But in the end the cleaning performance is the most important factor to me. While I have been extremely happy with the V-Zug Adora 12 SL from 1995 that used around 15-25 litres water (4-6.6 gallons) and all spray arms a the same time with good pressure, I wast just less happy with the Adora from 2004 that maximally used 5 gallons in the normal cycle with the overall performance, you can just feel it when you take out the „clean“ dishes. Glass and stainless steel was not as shiny as from the older Adora. Then the small basic Siemens from 2005 which only had 4 programs and was always running on Intense 65 degr. Celsius, has delivered every single time outstanding results even with the dirtiest dishes fully packed. The nozzels at the spray arme and the pressure must have been really good, the water consumption was also quite high with around 5.2 gallons.
Then I‘ve been using the Miele G6000 TOL and there I just realised how important the proper amount of water is to get outstanding results. Several times I have packed the Miele completely full with greasy dirty dishes (no prerinsing, just scraping off) and glassware in the second tray and run the Intense cycle with and without short option. Same result I could expect according to the manual, but this was certainly not the case. While dishes looked clean in both cases, I could certainly feel a difference and right after the cycle while glassware is still a bit wet, one could see small particles (like very very small corns) on the glass thanks to the bright interior light. Water left in holes of stainless steel dishes or mugs was milky, same was the water in the sump and the sump was greasy. Have also tried using more detergent and different detergent, in the and it was always similar. The dishwasher has always indicated 2.9 gallons of water usage. V-Zug from 2012 on the other hand does with same load and soil level a Intense cycle in 1h40min with 1 up to 2 pre rinses, while always just one intermediate rinse, with overall usage of 4.5-5 gallons. To sum up: in order to deliver outstanding results, the dishwasher has to do minimum a pre-rinse to flush away just the big amount of leftover on dishes and to allow the detergent to work in the main wash to dissolve greasy and heavy dirt and not to crack leftovers in the same water. While a second intermediate rinse is not needed, it is important that the dishwasher uses a higher amount of water in the final rinse.

The new G 7000 had the extra clean option and the QuickIntense Cycle, which was probably the only reason to give Miele another chance and not to pick V-Zug. The G 7000 is efficient but takes too much time same as the G 6000 to finish a Automatic cycle (2h30 vs. 1h35 V-Zug). While the results are very good and dishes very dry considering the ultra low consumption I still needed to activate the extra clean option, which adds a pre-rinse in every program that would not have one and adds extra water with every filling and extends the cycle time, to get excellent results. My dishwasher is hooked to hot water supply. The QuickIntense takes only 50 Min. and uses around 3.1 gallons water without extra clean option while 1h28min and 4.2 gal. with option activated. QuickIntense only in combination with extra clean delivers outstanding impeccable results without any residues. Water in the sump will not be milky...even with finish rinse aid. I do not really like to use the 75 Intense, it is just too harsh and then I just do not understand that daily cycle such as the Automatic even with Express selected cannot be finished under 1h40min? I mean, I select the Express and I don’t mind if it uses more water and energy (as stated in the manual) but why does Miele not really shorten the cycle times as BSH can do?

Does any one know how I could raise the water level without increasing the cycle time through the service mode in my G 7000 Miele?

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VarioSpeed

Is an amazing thing really if you don't care to much about usage, but without knowing, I would say that depending on condition and model, usage could be up to doubled in terms of energy.
And with VarioSpeed on any chance of glass care is out of the window as there is basicly no heat transfer.

The G4000 series machine at my work is about on par with VarioSpeed in terms of short option cycle times.

The G7000 is really focused on efficency there.
Express won't raise usage much. And QuickIntense with extra clean on is basicly just the Auto cycle in short. Probably a warm prewash, main wash at 65C, rinse, rinse, short dry, everything with max fills. More fills with higher levels and maybe some enzyme staging would make the 30min extra quite reasobable - BSHs Auto cycle with VarioSpeed is actually about 90min, so...
And keep in mind any cycle there will still run Mieles glass protection pattern of just waiting for water to cool down naturaly before draining due to the lack of a heat exchanger - except for QuickIntense which is basicly a VarioSpeed+ Eco 50C ripoff.
That is also a reason why the glass care cycle always was really long on Mieles compared to BSH machines.

So to summarise:
BSH has their 1:05 VarioSpeed+ Eco 50C cycle which is equivalent to QuickIntense in cycle steps, care, time, performance and usage.
Adding Extra Clean turns Mieles QuickIntense into BSHs Auto cycle with VarioSpeed+ in basicly all regards.
Mieles Auto with Express keeps the cool down times as part of glass care routine, thus adds about 30 odd min and runs at a more reasonable spray pressure-
And than again the Auto cycles match up round about if no options are selected.

Dunno how to acess programming on your TOL machine, but mine just has another extra clean option in the service menu, not much to adjust, adds time as well I think.
 
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