Bold laundry detergent?!!

[launderess]

Can't see P&G reintroducing Bold

At least to USA after having shed that brand and many others just recently in a downsizing.

Besides as noted Gain is P&G's current *fragrance* laundry product line, with some spill over into Tide (Tide with Downy and so forth).

We know from the packaging the stuff was meant for North American market, as "HE" does not exist in Europe. For places like Middle East where both top and front loaders are common, P&G, Henkel etc.. simply just use pictures of both types of machines (as on my boxes of Saudi Arabian Persil).

Probably easiest way to sort this out is getting ahold of the MSDS information which must exist somewhere. I've searched both US and UK P&G/Bold websites and there is no mention of anything "Tropical Orchard".

That being said the trademark for "Tropical Orchard" is only about one year old and is registered to P&G
https://www.trademarkia.com/tropical-orchard-87312695.html

Interestingly same person responsible for the above trademark also did "Bold" for P&G which was registered at same time. https://www.trademarkia.com/correspondent-alison-tan-2-629519

 

[supersuds]

For proof the P&G representatives are lying about them not doing private labels, consider this from the New York Times about the spinoff of Oxydol.

"Under the deal, Procter & Gamble, arguably the American consumer products company with the greatest influence among retailers, will still take care of the ordering, shipping and billing systems used for Oxydol, which will continue to be made at a P.& G. plant. It also has an undisclosed minority stake in the company. Redox, based in the Cincinnati suburb of West Chester, Ohio, will be making the strategic decisions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/05/b...-up-clean-up-with-cast-off-brands.html?src=pm

 

[supersuds]

The previous version of Bold, illustrated in the picture by Ingemar (gorenje), was available in second tier retailers like Family Dollar and Lowes. It filled their need for a recognizable brand name at a somewhat lower price point than Tide or Gain. I think the same thing is going on here.

While nobody respects the acumen of Launderess more than I do, I still tend to think this product is more likely domestic than not. Remember P&G tried to market a US version of Mexican Ariel a few years ago, rather than import the real thing. For a company with their resources, it would be child's play to tweak a detergent and scent formula, copy some already-existing Euro graphics, and presto, a new low end product -- that would seem to be cheaper for them than shipping a low value product all the across the ocean. Plus there'd be less chance of the product deteriorating in shipment. Just a thought.

 

[launderess]

No more it's not.

Pipe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CR_Brands

Also: http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?48559_4

When P&G first spun off Oxydol to that group of in house individuals who formed Redox the product was basically same. P&G was *NEVER* *EVER* going to give an outside company no matter how well connected access to their patents including the activated bleaching system which made Oxydol famous.

Remember Oxydol made it's mark after losing the battle as a soap power to Tide, by re-emerging later as a detergent with (oxygen) bleach. That later became an activated bleaching system based upon P&G's NBOS oxygen bleach activation systems.

Sadly for Oxydol P&G transferred that system to Tide (which became Tide with Bleach) and then it was off to the races. P&G continued to improve and refine their activated bleaching system but kept those to their TOL product; Tide. With that housewives no longer needed Oxydol and sales plummeted.

Indeed it has only been rather recently that P&G has moved *some* of their activated bleaching systems to Gain. Of course they long have used it with Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent. This is all easily sourced by looking up patent numbers on packets.

The other product sold off at that time was Biz, which went from being originally an enzyme presoak to an activated oxygen bleach (with enzymes), again courtesy of P&G's research and patents. However same thing happened as with Oxydol; Tide with Bleach replaced need for a separate product so Biz sales plummeted.

Neither Biz nor Oxydol sold today have anything to do with P&G.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...by-resilience-capital-partners-172067581.html

 

[jamiel]

Yeah, I think you're point is well taken--essentially the product manager for Oxydol made the case to spin it off to him, with P&G continuing manufacture and s/he just taking over marketing. They did the opposite thing with their bar soaps--spun off the Ivorydale facility where they made it to a private label packer and had them continue to produce Ivory etc. Redox (if it even exists) was named for the chemistry behind the activated bleaching, actually! By now they just slap their name on something one of the private labelers (Sun? Korex?) puts together.

 

[iej]

These companies change starategies all the time.

Their main aim tends to be to occupy as much shelf space as possible with umpteen varients of the same product. You're being given an illusion of choice by having 49 versions of the same thing.

Bold in Europe is more like alternative top tier product. It's definitely not a discount brand. If you look at the formulas, they've basically got a base formula for powder, liquid, pouch/pack and gel formulations and they just tweak them by adding various extras basic or complex enzyme cocktails, bleaches and obas, and different scents.

They've usually got a 2nd tier like Daz or Ariel Basic in some markets.

In the EU markets the big threat is definitely increasingly sophisticated private label alternatives.

In the USA, it could be a combination of that and the arrival of Henkel.

In both markets you're also seeing them trying to get into the ecological detergents market as it's fairly clear that consumers want those kinds of products and are willing to pay for them and you've got growing and increasingly effective brands like ecover etc etc.

I'd strongly suspect you're seeing some kind of test product quietly rolled out in some part of Canada in a limited distribution.

For example, as a marketeer, you might want to analyse how well recalled the Bold brand is and whether it's worth reviving.

 

[jamiel]

You may well be on to something there...all the soapers have been struggling with their strategies as they're increasingly unable to raise price (P&G at the forefront)...this iteration of Bold, though, seems indistinguishable in USP (unique selling point) than Gain in the US; and so not a terribly valid proof-point of product appeal. We shall see--though isn't an MSDS declaration required for interstate commerce?

 

[rolls_rapide]

Something odd about UK 'ACE' too.

I had noticed recently, that 'Ace' stain remover/booster is not listed on the UK www.info-pg.com

It seems that P&G have spun it off to a third party, probably to market it more efficiently. http://www.acecleanuk.co.uk/ (No mention of P&G copyright whatsoever). Case study: http://robinsonyoung.co.uk/case-studies/ace/

The link below, shows other well known brands: Tena Lady, Wilkinson Sword, Zoflora (disinfectant) and Covonia (cough medicine), alongside Ace.

I wonder if Ace has been pushed side-ways, like Unilever's Persil Dishwashing/dishwasher products have been licenced for production and promotion by McBride of Manchester?

http://robinsonyoung.co.uk/who-we-are/

 

[launderess]

@supersuds

Am not arguing, well not much. *LOL*

What throws one is that the packet clearly states this product is imported.....

Now while that could mean it came from down south (United States), just cannot see why or how P&G would ramp up production on just the one product to send it to Canada. Especially if one's other hunch is correct in that some version of this "Tropical Orchard" or whatever is being sold elsewhere in the world.

Suppose only way to settle this is for someone with enough brass to call P&G corporate and not being fobbed off to a minor functionary, speak with someone who does know the deal.

When P&G was called out (and IIRC sued) because phosphate versions of their Mexican detergent were making it onto USA shelves they soon enough put a stop to things. This after saying at first there was little they could do because stores were getting the stuff second or third hand from dealers.

 

[steve_b79]

Just received a response from P&G corporate through Facebook. I’m not going to hold my breath, but it’s a start…

“We certainly appreciate you reaching out to us, Steve! We've went ahead and passed this onto our team. We'll be sure to contact you when we have more information.”

And now...we wait.

 

[rolls_rapide]

P&G's 'corporate speak'

"We certainly appreciate you reaching out to us..."

I detest that kind of patronising 'corporate speak'! What the hell is wrong with using "contacting us"?

 

[launderess]

"Contacting us"

Or whatever has long been out of favor it seems, at least on this side of the pond. Everyone "reaches out" these days.

You hear it on the news (we reached out to *** for a comment...."

At work "reach out to "X" at corporate and see what he knows...

And so it goes..

Of course not everyone is on board or happy, but there you are then.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3016932/5-phrases-you-should-never-use-in-an-email

 

[rolls_rapide]

"reaching out"...

...makes me want to reach out and strangle 'em!

 

[nickuk]

and look at this - new on the shelves in Tesco ........

Fairy non bio stain remover powder

BUT look at the manufacturer - `Star brands of Redditch'!! (Who??? !)

http://https//www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/299194939

 

[rolls_rapide]

Yes, the web page: www.fairylaundryaids.com
timed out for me, but the cached version says:

"FAIRY is a trademark of The Procter & Gamble Company,
Cincinnati, Ohio.

Used under license by Star Brands Ltd,
Dunlop Rd, Redditch,
B97 5XP"

Very odd indeed.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Aha!

Star Brands - who make 'Star Drops' cleaner!

 

[nickuk]

Ah yes, of course. Good spot Rolls.

Star Drops being a product I have never used.... wasn't that the product which claimed to be a jack of all trades? I was traumatised at university by people using it to wash dishes, laundry, toilets, rags, animals, floors, bodies, cars......eek.

In terms of the Fairy - it also struck me that that container looks a bit like the store brand stain removers so perhaps they have the same origin.

I'm actually surprised that there is a market for Fairy non bio stain remover - the amount of variants of similar products we have now is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Yes, I always thought of 'Star Drops' as an analogue of '1001'.

I think you could use the earlier 'glass bottle' versions of 1001 for, well, 1001 uses (dishes, carpets, paintwork, etc). That was back when it was a basic transparent liquid.

 

[earthling177]

People have not given up on buying an "all-in-one" like detergent and softener for example -- we have had multiple iterations of "Tide with a Touch of Downy" or "...Febreze"etc., after Solo and Bold were discontinued (multiple times it seems, every couple of years or so we'd see Bold back on the lower shelves of places like Market Basket/DeMoulas).

I would not put past those stubborn people at P&G to think that the failure with Bold 2-in-1 or whatever it was called, was not that it did not clean *or* soften as well as using two separate products, but that the scent was old or not strong enough.

Me, if my experience is of any indication, the vast majority of times I've seen anyone using Bold was when I was doing laundry in a laundromat or coin-ops in apartment buildings -- people who couldn't be bothered to stay around to dispense their softener would buy detergents like that.

The *other* demographics that buys such things is people like us, who will try any detergent we don't already know (including things that say "New and Improved"). But we usually buy a box/bottle, try it and stop if we don't like it.

The folks that keep buying stuff like Bold are the ones that feel like "they have no choice" because really, no matter what they do, the coin-ops machines have a very short cycle and they'll have to pretreat all stains anyway and they want some softness but not to baby-sit the washers.

 

[steve_b79]

LOL!

@ Earthling177 - I'm one of the folks that kept purchasing Bold - but not because I didn't want to hang around to add fabric softener, or felt as though I didn't have a choice. I actually preferred its smell over "Tide with a touch of Downy". Plus, call me old-school, but I love seeing a ton of suds in my washer...and Bold always gave me a good deal of suds.