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thomasortega

thomasortega

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Folks, lately I've been thinking about ways to make a washer-dryer fit in a tiny apartment kitchen.

One concept came in my mind, using a design somewhat similar to a 30-inch Flair.

Control panel: thinner, so a vent hood could fit, keeping the same standard height

Oven: add convection and microwave

Cooktop: keep the 2-stage drawer, use magnetic induction.

Bottom cabinet: keep the doors, but fit a washer-dryer combo.

What do you guys think? Too crazy?

The whole idea is optimizing space. In the same space a regular stove + vent hood would fit, make all that fit.

Made modular so, if one of the appliances die, it can be replaced without replacing everything.

Target is apartments because due to covid, the latest fad is in-unit laundry, as many people are freaking out with the idea of contamination using laundromats. Of course nobody wants to spend fortunes remodeling kitchens or killing closet space in an apartment that is already tiny.

I've already had some big apartment complexes reaching me asking for a solution and one of the solutions I'm already creating is a washer-dryer with exactly the same dimensions as a dishwasher. So adiós dishwasher and hello washer dryer to attract new tenants.

Now, going a bit more crazy: what about a dishwasher IN THE OVEN? Only one rack, somewhat similar to those countertop dishwashers.
 
It's crazy

to provide appliances anyway. In this market?

Seriously?

Provide the connections- YES. Offer to help install whatever THEY decide to buy- YES.
But landlord buy it and then be responsible for it? NO. Been there.

Different tenants have diff. needs.

People can buy compact washers on Ebay and Amazon for $100 to $200 and that includes shipping.

Why would a landlord want to take on the responsibility and cost of a tenants appliances?

I wouldn't even provide stoves or frigs. And if avoidable, air conditioning.
Been there....done that sh*t.
 
Reply #2

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I don't think I agree.  I try to remember where I was in my life in my 20's when I was renting and the last thing I would have wanted to worry about was the appliances I would need to have to buy and maintain.  After all, I think the reason some people rent is so they don't have to be bothered with those kinds of things.  Many don't want to be bothered with paying utilities, maintaining the yard, etc.  They want to pay one bill and everything else is taken care of.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I can understand why this would be attractive for a landlord but I would think that's just part of the cost of doing business if that's the business you're in.  I think most places around here provide everything including a washer and dryer.  I think it's more the exception than the rule to need to buy those things yourself.  Maybe its regional, I don't know.  A friend of mine owns a number of houses and apts. he rents out. He said in his opinion he would rather provide appliances.  He said moving furniture in and out causes enough damage in his opinion that he can't imagine having novice movers trying to get heavy appliances in and out. </span>
 
#3

So, perhaps the apartments should also be fully furnished, cabinets stocked with dishes, linens, and living supplies for a month as well?

Especially in markets where there is a shortage of housing, sellers/landlords don't have to give away anything.

The recent census has shown that Arkansas, with it's 75 counties, has LOST population in 53 of them. Perhaps landlords there would find it necessary to lure prospective tenants by giving away stuff but even that isn't a safe bet. That's a fools game.

If a tenant doesn't have the intelligence or means to either already have their appliances OR to shop for ones that are used or new; why would a landlord want to provide for them and trust them to care for the appliances? It just doesn't work. That's an outdated stereotype. I wouldn't even want to rent to someone like that.
 
Why Re-Invent The Wheel..

I wouldnt be spending your time re-inventing a washer dryer Thomas, the spacesaver concept itself based on a Flair style cabinet for apartments really struggling for space is a great one though .

But as available appliances are already here why not engage a kitchen cabinet maker / joiner to make the cabinet with safety features to hold a ventless washer dryer behind doors, then a slide out induction hob, fitted in above that will be a Bosch / Siemens type combination microwave / fan oven, then above that a telescopic integrated cooker hood either re-circulating or vented ?

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Well, regarding "needing" them is not up to me to decide.

I've been receiving a number of contacts from landlords and apartment complex managers.

It turns out that if you provide the appliances, you first eliminate the hassle of tenants hooking them up incorrectly and causing damages. There's also the moving damages, plus, the repair costs can be easily thrown on the tenants back.

But truth be said, what I can clearly see "under the table" is, "anything we put in the unit, means more convenience, consequently more $$$$". As they're "upgrading" the units, they get that discount on taxes and that's a justifiable excuse to raise the rents in rent controlled zones.
Imagine, you pay $1500 for a studio or $2500 for a 1 bd-1 ba apartment that has a stove and a refrigerator. You can charge $3000 or more for a "luxury" apartment with exactly the same layout, same size, but with a stove, refrigerator, washer, dryer, dishwasher. Much more if it's fully furnished. There is a complex that has some apartments that cost $10k/month (3 bedroom penthouse with view to the Hollywood sign)

I can't judge them, my work is simply "listen" to the market and design appliances that fit the actual needs.

And... considering the numbers.... That's definitely VERY interesting.

Here in Los Angeles, one of the apartment complexes that reached me asking for a solution is literally the largest apartment complex on the west of the Mississipi River, with 4255 units. Imagine, a single client buying almost 5k units. In this specific case, they're actually starting to move to provide 100% of the apartments FULLY furnished with famous design furniture that matches the building history to create a "whole immersive time travel living experience" (I have the feeling that rent price for those units will easily triple.)
For that specific client, they want the cosmetic design to look "mid century".
 
@chestermike

Exactly... I'm not going to reinvent the wheel...

The technology exists since decades ago and they work extraordinarily well. Actually, I have no doubt the washer-dryer will be the easiest part of this project.

However, nobody thought about tossing one in a "Frigidaire Flair" cabinet.

In the first sketch, I could even find space for a small door next to the washer to store the dishwasher rack when the oven is in use or the oven rack when the oven is used as a dishwasher. And we all know, 27 inches washers have lots of dead space because of the cabinet... getting rid of the cabinet means i can make a full size "27 inch" washer-dryer fit in a 30 inch cabinet and have much more than only 3 inches left for a side cabinet.

The real wonder in the whole concept is better using the space between the cooktop and the vent hood, that Frigidaire mastered decades ago with the Flair. 100% of kitchens that have a 30-inch stove have that dead space. Putting the oven on top instantly optimizes that space leaving the bottom free for anything.
Now If I add a microwave to the oven.... Gosh, I eliminate a bulky countertop microwave oven from the counter...
If I put convection in the oven.... Bingo! a countertop air fryer is also eliminated. More free space in the kitchen.

And now.... put a small dishwasher in the oven.... OMG.... a whole cabinet space is saved.

The most complicated will be actually make the oven wash, but that's also not the end of the world because the technology already exists for decades in commercial ovens that are "self-washing".

For the user, of course it won't be the best of convenience. You can't bake a cake and do dishes at the same time or roast a turkey and boil a cup of water in the microwave at the same time. (yes, here in the USA people boil water in the Microwave, rolling eyes, I know).
Probably the electrical power limitations will also prevent using the dryer, cooktop and the oven at the same time, but you still have the convenience of having all those appliances where would be impossible due to space restrictions.

And for the landlords..... Guess who can charge more for an apartment so small that if you sneeze in it with the windows closed it explodes? a phone booth apartment with a regular stove and nothing else because the kitchen is so small you have to choose between a small coffee maker or a hand mixer because there's no room for both or a luxury phone booth apartment with a stove, microwave, washer, dryer and dishwasher.

Bottom line, It's all about landlord profits and rental control laws.

Same thing happened years ago with those walk-in bathtubs. Many landlords here added those where would be impossible to put a bathtub because the bathroom is microscopic. The rental options are "Claustrophobic shower stall that you have to step outside to brush you feet" or "luxury bathroom with a whirlpool bath" Guess who can charge more and have a more attractive ad. No matter what, you still sit on the toilet and hit the sink with your chin.

Putting down in simple words, "luxury" is the profit making word in real state. Just like "coffee" and "gourmet coffee" that are exactly the same product, but one costs 5x more.

The word "luxury" is being redefined. If you can add "luxury" to any listing, it's worth much more and people simply don't care, they WANT luxury.

Of course, there are markets and markets.

In Texas or Florida, for example, it's "normal" to find apartments with a huge island in the kitchen, some of them with two french door fridges or two sinks. space is not a problem. They like it big.... the apartment i lived in Dallas, OMG! it wasn't big, it was ridiculously GIGANTIC. the living room itself looked like a ballroom, the living room ONLY was bigger than my whole house here in LA, the kitchen was the size of my living room now, the bathroom had a "bathtub that could easily fit 4 and the bathroom itself was bigger than my bedroom here. and the rent was ridiculously low ($600 in 2016).

Here in Los Angeles, good luck finding a phone booth that costs less than $2000 nowadays and if they add the "luxury" perks, be ready for $3000, 4000, 5000... the sky is the limit and you have to be REALLY lucky to find something because they're listed and disappear in minutes, if they're listed, because many apartment complexes have waiting lists.

The situation is so critical that if an apartment complex puts a silly keurig coffee maker in the main entrance, that's enough to add $100 to $200 more to the rent cost for each unit. Of course nobody (or almost anybody) will remember to use it or they probably won't because the "luxury complimentary coffee" is actually that cheap crap from costco that tastes like s**t. But when they're signing the contract they don't care, they're just too amazed by the perks.
 
Thomas it sounds like you are doing some interesting projects. I have seen some of these (ridiculous) "houses" barging their way into previously quiet and serene Beverly Hills type neighborhoods and pissing off the neighbors with the noise, dirt, and eventual horrendous eye-sore of a home that looks more like a an office building.

But you're correct: if the money is green, who are you to argue with what they want. Your name isn't on the ownership contract so no one's going to sue you. Get while the getting is good as they say.

The most Flair-esque thing I've seen recently is this compact countertop dishwasher.


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Yep, I hear you. In 1977 our family took a Griswald-type 2 week vacation from the midwest and stopped in L.A. for Disneyland and to see relatives living on the coast. I also lived in Northridge in 1986-1987 and visited in 1997. I'm sure it's nothing like I once knew it and I'm not interested in living in it now.

Cities and their metros like L.A. , San Francisco, NYC, Boston, D.C., London, etc. are some of the most expensive places ON THE PLANET. They are for people who are wealthy. There is no point in anyone middle class or lower even thinking of moving there unless they have a concrete promise of income and housing.

Still there is something about L.A.'s history I find intoxicating. The way it's developed, the stages, how it's looked each decade. It's like each decade is so different than the previous. Fortunately, thanks to the internet, I can occasionally peek in and get a taste until I've had enough.



It's hard to believe that not that long ago the Valley was covered in orange groves, other crops and desert. Now more than 2 million+ people call it home. You're hard pressed to find an orange grove but if you know what you're looking for you can find old remnants of what once was.



Interesting hearing videos from the 60s

 
Thomas,

I find the idea intriguing. I had the opportunity to use one of those Candy hob, oven, dishwasher combi-units many years ago for six weeks.

It worked very well for me. Had it had a microwave integrated into the oven, it would have been even better.

I am shocked by the number of negative comments on the whole idea.

 
 
I love Los Angeles. 5 years living here and I love it as if I was born here. For me, the only dreadful thing is every single day I wish Ronald Reagan was alive, so I could personally strangle him to death.

I don't know the exact story but AFAIK, the 110 original project was 2 or 3 times wider and Governor Reagan decided to put it on a diet because in the future people wouldn't use so many cars, instead people would use public transportation. Of course that didn't happen, the future arrive and people use cars even to go to 7-Eleven 2 blocks away.

I don't even want to imagine the nightmare it was before the FasTrak was built, giving 2 extra lanes to the 110.

The person that best describes what is the 110 on rush hour is Angela Basset on 911, I think season 2 second episode, immediately after an earthquake. Dressed as a LAPD officer, she puts both sands on her head and shout "INSAAAAAANITY".

The sad thing is, we don't need a natural disaster, the 110 is a 24/7 chaos. And no matter what, I need to use if for everything.

It's easy to understand why many of us prefer to pay a $11 toll only to drive like 7 miles. 11 bucks during the worst hours that save a few HOURS on traffic.

Other pro lem the city has is housing for those in need, but I won't even touch this topic because I refrain to discuss anything political here.

Living in TX was great, Dallas is beautiful, traffic is a dream with those absurdly overdimensioned freeways. Housing there is also a dream because it's super affordable. Gas is ridiculously cheap, electricity made me laugh every time I opened the bill (here I cry), Groceries are ridiculously affordable (I miss the $.98 3-liter coke or the Pepsi Twist that here simply don't exist at all. BUT.

Here we don't see cows flying, we don't freeze to death in the winter (well, sort of).
 
Panthera

I totally understand the negative comments.

Myself, I'd HATE to use it as the only resource. I usually cook already tossing the dirty items.in the dishwasher. If I had a decent sized kitchen, I'd probably cook with the dishwasher open. Now imagine, having to choose if I use the oven OR the microwave oven OR the dishwasher because they can't be used simultaneously.

Other negative comments are very realistic due to regionalism. I can't imagine this concept being useful in Texas or Florida, but a "must" in New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

If you have space, wonderful! Have two dishwashers, two microwave ovens, two fridges in the kitchen plus one in the garage, a chest freezer, a wine cooler, a "Red Bull" mini fridge, two stoves, two cooktops, plus 3 wall ovens "just in case".

But I have to match the product with the market needs. All manufacturers think "bigger is better", this is an old "American Dream cliché". But I must have in mind that not every American cities have the same space issues, this versatility I have is exactly what made my boss "hunt" me. I like that kind of challenge. It's still a brainstorm but don't be surprised if soon I post here a video of the first prototype. Challenge accepted!

Also, several things changed in the company thanks to the pandemic. We're growing like crazy, it was wonderful when the CEO came to me and said "Thomas, go nuts, let's do everything, all the crazy projects, we don't have shareholders to make happy, don't be afraid to spend money on product development.. It's your time to SHINE!" (He said literally that with those words"

You're going to see "Gyro Gearloose" on steroids, I confess I was missing that. I didn't dedicate so many years studying to design only washers like the Silk Lux. I want more, I want to be like Halston with the supersuede or Gucci with the G-string.

Appliances are boring, young designers are afraid to get out of the beaten path, everything is "more of the same". Designers are so focused on "squares" (maybe because it's easier to use templates in the CAD software) that they forget the hyperbolic paraboloid exists.

Even my husband probably never saw me really working hard, really drawing more than small elements. Actually I don't remember if he ever saw me drawing on paper instead of CAD. (I love and hate CAD)

Some ideas are crazy, but plausible, other ideas don't even pass the brainstorming phase, but that's what brainstorms are for.
 

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