British Essentials Sent The Wrong Persil: Non Bio Instead of Bio

[frigilux]

Years ago, when I still had the 2002 Frigidaire front loader, I tried a small box of powdered UK (Unilever) Persil Bio and liked everything about it: cleaning power, scent, and best of all the super-clear rinses it produced. Think I ordered it from the Brit SuperStore, which I’m not sure exists anymore. Tried the powdered version made by Henkel, but found the Unilever version produced clearer rinses.

Fast forward to 2023. I ordered a 37-load size box of Persil Bio from British Essentials. It arrived about a month ago and I remembered why I liked it so much. It instantly became my daily driver. Decided the most efficient use of British Essentials’ flat-rate shipping was to purchase three boxes at a time.

It arrived yesterday and I was very excited to have a big stash of my new favorite detergent…until I opened the box and found they’d sent Persil Non Bio instead of Bio. Checked the invoice/shipping notice packed in the box and an e-mail confirming it had shipped and both listed my order as three boxes of Persil Bio.

Sent an e-mail to their customer support to check on returns/refunds. This error has me a little hesitant to order from them again, but am hoping it was a one-off mistake. The first order I placed with them in November was correct and both arrived in a timely manner.

I assume that the biggest difference between Bio and Non Bio is that Bio has enzymes, which are important for stain removal. Just can’t see keeping three boxes of the Non Bio. Had it been only one box, I’d probably keep it just for fun.

 

[Marky_Mark]

I would imagine they will send you the correct order and let you keep the non-bio powder, considering it's their mistake.  Probably not worth their time and expense trying to process the return.  Keep us posted on what happens.

 

I think the non-bio might not remove certain stains/soiling quite as well as the bio version, but it should work very well on whites to keep them white due to the activated oxygen bleach and optical brighteners.  Let us know how it goes.

 

The lack of enzymes seems to be the main difference between the two but there would appear to be some other differences in the ingredients lists.  Someone who is familiar with these things will hopefully fill us in.

 

[frigilux]

Mark— I detest repacking and shipping things back, so it would be great if British Essentials said “Keep it and we’ll send you three boxes of Bio.” I think that might be more likely to play out if it was only one box, but comping me three boxes would be a big bill to swallow for them.

The funny thing is that I really shouldn’t open a box of it till I hear back from British Essentials…but honestly, I’m eager to try it out in comparison to the Bio version.

 

[launderess]

Both Bio and Non-Bio list between 5-15% oxygen bleaching agents with each containing an activator (TAED). IIRC whispers going around say Non-Bio has slightly more bleaching power to sort out stains in aid of coping with no enzymes.

Some time ago posted link to a YT video by some sort of chemist that proved non-bio detergents worked best in terms of shifting marks when used at higher temps. Biological detergents OTOH worked best in warm to moderately hot water (about 100F to 140F).

Some testing done by members in past of bio and non-bio detergents.

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?48023_12

Hi Frig! https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?29944_8

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?47027_2

 

[westtexman]

Persil Non-Bio smells Heavenly! I love the scent. I prefer biological detergents, but the Persil Non-Bio smells way better than the Bio variant. The only tablets one can find now are Persil Non-Bio, and I always pick up a box when traveling to the UK. They fit in my carry-on perfectly. I feel like the powder smells the same. You should try a box - I don’t have a lot of stains on my whites and lights that require the enzymes, and I find the Non-Bio works quite well.

If you end up keeping them, I would love to buy a box from you!

Bryan

 

[frigilux]

Hi Launderess! I was hoping you’d jump into this conversation. Thanks for linking the legacy threads. You have mad skills with this site’s Wayback Machine.

Decided I’m going to tear into a box of the Persil Non Bio. I have a load of kitchen/bath/personal whites to do today. No terribly difficult stains on the kitchen towels or my chef’s apron, so want to see how the Non Bio performs on its own.

As I’ve mentioned before, all my kitchen, bath and bed linens, as well as personal garments are white, so wash several loads a week in hot (around 140 degrees F) water.

I recently purchased a Speed Queen front loading washer & companion dryer, so have returned to my preferred washing axis. The 2017 9-Series SQ top loader, which undoubtedly has many years of life left in it, was rehomed. Current daily driver detergents are powdered UK Persil Bio and powdered Amway SA8. When washing whites, I usually pair the SA8 with the company’s powdered All Fabric Bleach. I still use Perwoll Renew Black for those loads and have a jug of liquid Tide Ultra Stain Release which is rarely used, now.

If a load of whites contains difficult stains—I’m looking at you, Rao’s Marinara Sauce—I fill the liquid chlorine bleach compartment with original Clorox—no detergent or other additives—and run a Quick Wash with hot or sometimes warm water. Clocks in at 26 minutes at the medium soil default. One wash, one rinse, 1200 rpm final spin. Then I add detergent to the compartment and select the Whites cycle, 49 minutes using the medium soil default setting. Haven’t found a stain yet that process can’t remove.

If there are no terribly difficult stains, I use the Sanitize With Oxi cycle. 1 hour + 40 minutes default setting. That provides a 60-minute wash tumble. At the max soil setting, it’s a 2 hr cycle with an 80-minute wash tumble. I really like this faux “Sanitize” cycle as the spins after the wash and first rinse are about 1.5 minutes longer than the Whites or Heavy Duty cycles, and the final spin is 4-5 minutes longer, which leaves the heavy bath linens noticeably drier than the aforementioned cycles.

Bryan— I agree with you about the Non Bio’s scent. The three boxes are sitting near the door to my apartment and they’re doing a fine job of lightly scenting the place.

Pictured: The monochromatic linen cupboard and hoovermatic’s listing of Which? test results from 2013.

 

[frigilux]

Wow, the Persil Non Bio passed its first test with flying colors, or whites in this case. Had a full capacity load of whites, none of which had the stains I find most problematic—Rao’s Marinara Sauce; mustard; Worcestershire sauce—so I ran the load using the Sanitize With Oxi cycle at the default 1 hr + 40 minutes, sixty of which were the wash tumble.

I followed the instructions for soft water and heavy stains, and used 70 grams of detergent. There was more suds in the wash tumble as compared to Persil Bio, but the water was crystal clear by the final rinse. There was a marinara stain on one of the heavy terry cloth hot pads that remained, but it had faded substantially. Coffee, tea and egg yolk powder stains were removed completely.

Color me impressed! I think I’m going to keep the three boxes after all.

Photos:
1. Dosage chart by soil level and water hardness. Dosage chart is the same for Persil Bio and Non Bio.
2 Weighing the detergent. A measuring tablespoon equals 10 grams of detergent, so 7 tablespoons or slightly more than 1/3 cup equaled 70gr.

 

[DADoES]

 
Yay!

Lotta folks would have a coronary over a dosage of, *gasp!* SEVEN TABLESPOONS.

 

[launderess]

Hi Frig!

Water in much of UK or Europe is often far harder than what one finds in much of USA in all but most mineral laden water. As such dosage on detergent packets generally is in excess of what's required.

Recalling one's nursing math equivalents four tablespoons comes to about one-quarter cup. That should be more than enough for all but most heavily soiled full load of linens/cottons.

In all one's years of using European laundry detergents have never used recommended dosage of powder or liquid format products. Results have always been good to great.

On keeping these boxes of "non-bio" unless British Essentials makes a tempting offer that cannot be refused I'd vote to keep packages.

Only thing missing from Persil non-bio is enzymes. My method for dealing with that issue with either vintage or modern laundry detergents that lack same is simply to add a bit of whatever "booster" product is on hand.

 

[frigilux]

Launderess— I have a water softener, so the water is super soft. Have since washed two far less demanding loads—mixed colors in warm water; bed linens in hot—and used three tablespoons (30gr) with good results. This happy accident—getting Non Bio instead of Bio—may work to my advantage. You pointed out the Non Bio detergent thrives on hot water and I often wash in 140 degree water. That temp would probably inactivate much of the enzyme effect of the Bio version. Loads of whites with lots of tough stains get the Quick Wash liquid chlorine bleach protocol anyway, so the Non Bio would suffice in those instances, as well.

Glenn— Seven tablespoons (70gr) is definitely a heavy dose, but most loads will only require 20gr-40gr in soft water. At any rate, I’m very pleased with Persil Non Bio.

 

[qsd-dan]

Purchase some oxygen bleach and use that along with the non bio detergent. Should have good results with that combination.

 

[launderess]

Actually since Persil non-bio contains an oxygen bleach activator adding more hydrogen peroxide (regardless of source) will do limited good.

There is a set ratio between source of oxygen bleach and activator that produces the peracetic acid which actually does the work. Excess hydrogen peroxide may work, but it would be just far better to simply use more product instead. This is what dosage guides are about.

While enzymes are great for laundry day and surely have advanced thing since grandmother's day; chemicals still are viable players on wash day.

Indeed commercial/industrial laundries largely rely upon various chemicals including bleaches (chlorine or oxygen) to achieve good wash results. Wash cycles on those machines simply are too short and things often done at too high temperatures for enzymes to be of much use.

Main benefit of enzymes is laundry can be done with lower ambient wash temps than in past. Indeed whole "turn dial down" to washing in warm or even cold water is largely possible by advances in enzyme technology.

For ages laundries in UK doing hospital work got blood out of textiles using nothing more than soap, sodium metasilicate and oxygen bleach (usually sodium perborate). They did this of course at temps at or over 160 degrees F, but there you are....

 

[henene4]

Keep in mind though that enzyme tech has moved on a lot aswell. The EU used to have "Bio prewash" cycles that would basically be a long warm soak.
Long as in hours.

Just adding more product can also be problematic. You get more tensides and thus more suds aswell plus even more water softening.

A good "stain remover" additive usually contains enzymes as well as oxygen bleach base AND activator.
However, they don't add much sudsing if done well.

 

[launderess]

Every laundry booster or pre-soaker one has seen or researched going back ages have pretty much same ingredients as powdered laundry detergents.

Some sort of builder, pH adjuster, water softener (alkaline)

Surfactants

Oxygen bleach

Bleach activator (maybe)

Enzymes

and so it goes...

Only thing most don't have is OBA's though that isn't always true either.

One huge reason why sales of enzyme pre-soaking products declined was top and even middle shelf detergents began to incorporate that technology.

Things continued along that route until rise of liquid format laundry detergents. Those formats can contain enzymes, but not oxygen bleach. So P&G, Unilever and others came up with "boosters" or whatever which basically put back what's missing from powdered laundry detergents. This includes some sort of alkaline substance, enzymes and oxygen bleach (with or without activator).

Consumer testing groups world over state pretty much same; for badly soiled washing and or removing stubborn marks powdered detergents will beat liquid. Again it's usually because of oxygen bleaching systems.

 

[frigilux]

A happy update: Well, three cheers for British Essentials, who sent three boxes of powdered Persil Bio across the pond free of charge. You may recall they originally sent three boxes of the Non Bio version in error. Nice to see a company that treats customers—in another country, even—well.

A nod to marky_mark, who predicted this outcome. (See above.)

As it turns out, I use the Non Bio version for loads washed in hot water (140-143 degrees F) and the Bio version for loads washed in warm (around 100 F) which takes full advantage of its more temp-sensitive enzymes. Thank you to Launderess who pointed out the benefit of using the Non Bio detergent in hot water washes.

 

[fisherpaykel]

Taking in washing

Hi Frigilux, Eugene, great outcome! With 126 loads x 2 you might consider taking in the washing for your building for a few weeks, you know to break in your new Speed Queen front loader, haha! We're eager to hear your opinion of both versions performance.

 

[launderess]

Glad things worked out well for you Frig!

Had a feeling things would go that way, after all it was British Essentials who made the error, why should yourself be inconvenienced in packing up and shipping back wrong sent items..

From BE's side of things it surely was much cheaper to just send along original product ordered rather than dealing with prepaid return shipping and so forth. We're talking about international transit which would have made things likely a logistical nightmare.

 

[launderess]

Found It

Tests showing differences in stain removal between bio and non-bio at various temperatures.

 

[frigilux]

Thanks for locating and sharing the video, Launderess! I was surprised at how well the bio version did at room temp, which I’m assuming is around 72F (22C). As for the non bio detergent, my washer’s incoming hot tap temp is 140F (60C). The warm setting comes in at around 100-105F (40C). Haven’t temped the cool setting, but am assuming it’s somewhere around 75-85 (86F = 30C).

Since most of my loads are whites washed at 140F, I actually use Persil Non Bio more than the Bio version. It would have never occurred to me to have both versions in the cupboard. Getting the wrong detergent from British Essentials turned out to land on the positive side of the theory of unintended consequences.

When needed, my liquid chlorine bleaching protocol has changed completely. I add Clorox to the max line in the Speed Queen’s dispenser and run a Quick cycle in hot water. This gives a “wash” with bleach only, a spin, a rinse and a final spin at 1200 rpm in only 26 minutes. Then I run a Whites cycle using Persil Non Bio detergent. I like treating the bleach and detergent cycles as separate entities, an idea you mentioned that’s used in commercial laundries.

fisherpaykel: I produce a truly remarkable amount of laundry for a household of one, so don’t think I’ll need to take in washing. Have to say that I’m very impressed with both versions of UK (Unilever) Persil and have been getting great results choosing between Bio and Non Bio according to the wash temp. Want to experiment with the Soak cycle to see what effect an hour’s soak has on stain removal with both versions of the detergent.
What impresses me most is that both detergents rinse out so well. This has always been a point of frustration for me, as most US detergents like to linger through the final rinse phase of a cycle. The Persil Bio produces less suds than its Non Bio counterpart, but both produce very clear rinses in my super-soft water.