beekeyknee
Well-known member
Induction fans on our furnace act up a lot and now they're going to force them on to water heaters? This is another problem being engineered into a device that was previously trouble free.
Buy your water heaters now!
- Thread starter beekeyknee
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norgeway
Well-known member
A good old
pilot light Janitrol gas furnace from the 50s or 60s with cast iron burners and Dura Tube heat exchanger will be running when all the new induced draft units have burned up ,it can be effectively argued that the older unit is much more efficient and eco friendly in the long run!Its all about the government conspiring with manufacturers to sell more appliances/cars/etc, if they scare people into spending money,the government gets more tax money, and then the homeowner who bought the new junk, will have to buy more in 5 years or so, I do not and never have bought into the who energy efficient thing, a water heater needs only the same controls they have had for the past 75 years, with a pilot you have hot water when the power goes out, and it usualy never gives trouble, the more gizmos added to it, the more trouble it gives, the more you end up spending
pilot light Janitrol gas furnace from the 50s or 60s with cast iron burners and Dura Tube heat exchanger will be running when all the new induced draft units have burned up ,it can be effectively argued that the older unit is much more efficient and eco friendly in the long run!Its all about the government conspiring with manufacturers to sell more appliances/cars/etc, if they scare people into spending money,the government gets more tax money, and then the homeowner who bought the new junk, will have to buy more in 5 years or so, I do not and never have bought into the who energy efficient thing, a water heater needs only the same controls they have had for the past 75 years, with a pilot you have hot water when the power goes out, and it usualy never gives trouble, the more gizmos added to it, the more trouble it gives, the more you end up spending
whirlcool
Well-known member
TO tell you the truth, I'd be worried about the Goodman brand for anything for the home. The company is based here in Houston and the company USED to be good until Sonny boy took it over about 15 years ago. Here they are known as cheap, unreliable units and most honest a/c & heating companies stay away from them.
The owner of the company is in jail in Florida for a DUI manslaughter charge. He never was that involved with the company. He just pumped money out of it into his own bank accounts so he can party harder and longer.
I would really check into the reviews for the unit you are buying and check the integrity of the company that is installing it. From what I have heard/seen around here ANY other brand would be better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Goodman_(industrialist/polo_magnate)
The owner of the company is in jail in Florida for a DUI manslaughter charge. He never was that involved with the company. He just pumped money out of it into his own bank accounts so he can party harder and longer.
I would really check into the reviews for the unit you are buying and check the integrity of the company that is installing it. From what I have heard/seen around here ANY other brand would be better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Goodman_(industrialist/polo_magnate)
whirlcool
Well-known member
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.....
The past two hot water tanks we've had have been Bradford/White and they both have had electronic ignition. The newest one we've only had to relight once, but it was a bear to get going. After 15-20 times it eventually lit up. No problems since.
Can anyone tell me anything about Bradford/White hot water tanks? I only heard of them after we purchased this house. I thought they were a builders grade model. But some people indicated to me that they are better than that. A lot of plumbers in our area carry them.
You pay your money and takes your chances....
here are more reviews of Goodman furnaces...
http://https//www.furnacecompare.com/furnaces/goodman/reviews/
The past two hot water tanks we've had have been Bradford/White and they both have had electronic ignition. The newest one we've only had to relight once, but it was a bear to get going. After 15-20 times it eventually lit up. No problems since.
Can anyone tell me anything about Bradford/White hot water tanks? I only heard of them after we purchased this house. I thought they were a builders grade model. But some people indicated to me that they are better than that. A lot of plumbers in our area carry them.
You pay your money and takes your chances....
here are more reviews of Goodman furnaces...
http://https//www.furnacecompare.com/furnaces/goodman/reviews/
norgeway
Well-known member
Re Goodman
All the HVAC guys I know say RUN from anything Goodman,For oil furnaces their is but one brand, THERMO PRIDE, they also make a great gas furnace, Trane, Carrier and Bryant are good brands overall.
All the HVAC guys I know say RUN from anything Goodman,For oil furnaces their is but one brand, THERMO PRIDE, they also make a great gas furnace, Trane, Carrier and Bryant are good brands overall.
gusherb
Well-known member
I would take that with a grain of salt
Goodman gets a bad rap because they aren't very tight about who they sell to - just about anyone can get their hands on them... and they do. An HVAC system is only as good as the installer that put it in. and since anyone can get their hands on them there's MANY piss poor installations involving Goodman equipment, and when not installed right, any such equipment can suffer poor reliability and performance issues. (even the brands with the best reputations ie Trane, Lennox, etc)
Goodman gets a bad rap because they aren't very tight about who they sell to - just about anyone can get their hands on them... and they do. An HVAC system is only as good as the installer that put it in. and since anyone can get their hands on them there's MANY piss poor installations involving Goodman equipment, and when not installed right, any such equipment can suffer poor reliability and performance issues. (even the brands with the best reputations ie Trane, Lennox, etc)
gusherb
Well-known member
Allen
Bradford White is only sold through wholesale channels (plumbing supply houses) so they aren't well known by consumers nor available in the big box. They are about on par with Rheem but I've heard in the last couple of years that Bradford White tanks aren't having the greatest longevity lately. They are still a pretty decent brand though.
and then there's A.O. Smith, and State... Those have a horrible reputation and word on the street is to avoid them like the plague.
Bradford White is only sold through wholesale channels (plumbing supply houses) so they aren't well known by consumers nor available in the big box. They are about on par with Rheem but I've heard in the last couple of years that Bradford White tanks aren't having the greatest longevity lately. They are still a pretty decent brand though.
and then there's A.O. Smith, and State... Those have a horrible reputation and word on the street is to avoid them like the plague.
whirlcool
Well-known member
A friend of ours uses State hot water tanks. He's always crowing about the fact that they are the last hot water tank made in the USA. But he's always replacing thermocouples, resistors, gas valves, on them. Well at least they are serviceable! He has a number of rent houses and uses them in his own house and the rentals.
Should I start a maintenance program on our hot water tank after 10 years? Someone said I could be stirring up a hornets nest by doing so after using it for so long.
It could do things like leak, the drain valve could jam open, the top could fall apart when I remove the anode rod when checking it.
What do you think?
Should I start a maintenance program on our hot water tank after 10 years? Someone said I could be stirring up a hornets nest by doing so after using it for so long.
It could do things like leak, the drain valve could jam open, the top could fall apart when I remove the anode rod when checking it.
What do you think?
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Kenmore71 has hit the nail on the head.
The heat produced by a standing pilot is NOT wasted; it heats the water.
What then, is the actual amount of energy saved by the addition of all these complications? how many years go by until the homeowner starts seeing a return on investment? The design and production of these additional pieces is not carbon neutral, anyway.
And don't even think of trying to tell me that making a water heater depend on 2 fuel sources as opposed to one to do its job could possibly be an improvement.
A smart homeowner will simply buy 2 of the smaller, simpler water heaters and/or have the thermostat turned up.
Also, as I discussed this weekend, the average person is NOT going to complain about these high efficiency things not working:
-Toilet doesn't flush? It'll simply get flushed twice.
-Dishwasher doesn't clean dishes? Any dirty ones will simply be left in the dishwasher to be washed a second time. If the homeowner deems the problem to be water not hot enough, the dishwasher will simply be set to SaniRinse and left there.
-Washer doesn't clean or rinse clothes properly? The user will simply run the clothes through again.
If the government were seriously concerned with saving water, they'd mandate waterless urinals for all new construction.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving energy. I think all street lights nationwide should be replaced with LED bulbs ONE BY ONE as the current bulbs blow.
Jim
The heat produced by a standing pilot is NOT wasted; it heats the water.
What then, is the actual amount of energy saved by the addition of all these complications? how many years go by until the homeowner starts seeing a return on investment? The design and production of these additional pieces is not carbon neutral, anyway.
And don't even think of trying to tell me that making a water heater depend on 2 fuel sources as opposed to one to do its job could possibly be an improvement.
A smart homeowner will simply buy 2 of the smaller, simpler water heaters and/or have the thermostat turned up.
Also, as I discussed this weekend, the average person is NOT going to complain about these high efficiency things not working:
-Toilet doesn't flush? It'll simply get flushed twice.
-Dishwasher doesn't clean dishes? Any dirty ones will simply be left in the dishwasher to be washed a second time. If the homeowner deems the problem to be water not hot enough, the dishwasher will simply be set to SaniRinse and left there.
-Washer doesn't clean or rinse clothes properly? The user will simply run the clothes through again.
If the government were seriously concerned with saving water, they'd mandate waterless urinals for all new construction.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving energy. I think all street lights nationwide should be replaced with LED bulbs ONE BY ONE as the current bulbs blow.
Jim
gusherb
Well-known member
The real problem with A.O. Smith/State (they are the same thing) is the F.V.I.R. system (flammable vapor ignition resistant), those were mandated in 2003 and they designed theirs poorly and stuck with it. They put the intake on the bottom and then put a filter on it so it would suck in all kinds of dust (or lint if in the laundry room) and get clogged and cause the flame to get snuffed out. Of course nobody knew these things had filters.
BF uses a side intake design with the entire bottom as a flame arrestor plate so it can't really clog, and they use a resettable thermal fuse. Rheem has a similar side intake design but has a spring loaded damper on the bottom with a glass fuse holding it open and if it melts it closes the damper... originally if this tripped it rendered the water heater useless but they've since made that fuse replaceable. There are virtually no reports of nuisance trips with Rheem or BF. State/AOSmith OTOH got a bad rap fast from all the nuisance calls from clogged filters etc.
Enough of my long winded explanation about FVIR lol.
Our Rheem was 15 years old the first time I flushed the sediment out of it, they say the tank can leak if you drain it after it's already older and that's true, but I never drain ours I just attach the hose and open it up and let the water run for a good 5 minutes, which I think is more effective then draining the tank.
I never bothered with the anode rod.
The plastic shutoff valve did stop sealing all the way so I put one of those hose end caps on it that you find on a lawn sprinkler and that "fixed" it. That water heater is 25 years old now (which is why I wanna replace it now lol). It has never given a single lick of trouble and has only ever had to be relit when the gas was shut off to do modifications to the gas piping in the house.
BF uses a side intake design with the entire bottom as a flame arrestor plate so it can't really clog, and they use a resettable thermal fuse. Rheem has a similar side intake design but has a spring loaded damper on the bottom with a glass fuse holding it open and if it melts it closes the damper... originally if this tripped it rendered the water heater useless but they've since made that fuse replaceable. There are virtually no reports of nuisance trips with Rheem or BF. State/AOSmith OTOH got a bad rap fast from all the nuisance calls from clogged filters etc.
Enough of my long winded explanation about FVIR lol.
Our Rheem was 15 years old the first time I flushed the sediment out of it, they say the tank can leak if you drain it after it's already older and that's true, but I never drain ours I just attach the hose and open it up and let the water run for a good 5 minutes, which I think is more effective then draining the tank.
I never bothered with the anode rod.
The plastic shutoff valve did stop sealing all the way so I put one of those hose end caps on it that you find on a lawn sprinkler and that "fixed" it. That water heater is 25 years old now (which is why I wanna replace it now lol). It has never given a single lick of trouble and has only ever had to be relit when the gas was shut off to do modifications to the gas piping in the house.
@norgeway
Its just like countries which charge more and more for older cars to be on the road, to the point where you should replace the engine or the car itself every couple of years (i.e. Japan).
Its FAR less pollutive to leave an old car on the road than to replace it with a new hybrid. Where do the car's furnishings come from? The computers? The batteries? The metals for the engine?
All of it, thanks to globalisation, comes from every corner of the globe. Countless tons of oil are wasted shipping these products when they could be made locally with far less environmental impact. Sure, new cars use less fuel, and maybe doesn't spit out as much bad gasses, but it only ever recoups the cost made to the environment in its production.
The old car will last just as long, if not longer, and isn't built from a million wizz-bang materials that can't be sourced. Even cars fitted with computers from the 1980s and 1990s are still running fine today. A little technical know-how will go a long way to keeping those simple, economical vehicles running.
Its just like countries which charge more and more for older cars to be on the road, to the point where you should replace the engine or the car itself every couple of years (i.e. Japan).
Its FAR less pollutive to leave an old car on the road than to replace it with a new hybrid. Where do the car's furnishings come from? The computers? The batteries? The metals for the engine?
All of it, thanks to globalisation, comes from every corner of the globe. Countless tons of oil are wasted shipping these products when they could be made locally with far less environmental impact. Sure, new cars use less fuel, and maybe doesn't spit out as much bad gasses, but it only ever recoups the cost made to the environment in its production.
The old car will last just as long, if not longer, and isn't built from a million wizz-bang materials that can't be sourced. Even cars fitted with computers from the 1980s and 1990s are still running fine today. A little technical know-how will go a long way to keeping those simple, economical vehicles running.
whirlcool
Well-known member
That happened to my friend recently with one of his State hot water tanks. The pilot light went out and wouldn't relight. It was getting gas, but it just wouldn't light.
Finally on a YouTube video about hot water tank repairs it said to clean the filter around the parameter of the tank. He didn't know it had one. He pulled it out and cleaned it. It was full of dust. Earlier that year he had done some sheet rock work in the next room and some of the dust clogged the filter. He cleaned the filter and the tank then lit up just fine.
I think I'll try draining about 5 gallons out of our tank just to see if I get any sentiment out of it. Our water here is pretty hard with a high calcium content.
Finally on a YouTube video about hot water tank repairs it said to clean the filter around the parameter of the tank. He didn't know it had one. He pulled it out and cleaned it. It was full of dust. Earlier that year he had done some sheet rock work in the next room and some of the dust clogged the filter. He cleaned the filter and the tank then lit up just fine.
I think I'll try draining about 5 gallons out of our tank just to see if I get any sentiment out of it. Our water here is pretty hard with a high calcium content.
arbilab
Well-known member
I want a water heater that plays "I'm Getting Sedimental Over You" when it needs draining. Hell, if you're going to make me wire it to 120V before it will work, make the damn thing drain itself!
Anybody counted the (gasp) "carbon footprint" of sending an Econoline to your house every 3 months to repair all this fangled jiggerypockery for those who don't know which end of a screwdriver goes where (almost ALL Americans)?
Ask google 'how many water heaters ignite flammable vapor' and it won't even answer you. Go ahead, try it. It's an imaginary problem. Unlike say, the death of 7 kids in NY from an unattended hotplate left running in observance of some religious ritual against lighting fires.
Can't outlaw stupid. Can institutionalize it, that's what goobermint excels at.
Howzbout this? Almost nobody operates a fridge without operating a waterheater. The fridge dumps over 1kW in waste heat, running roughly 12-7-365. Catch that heat and put it in the water. Why do I have to think of EVERYthing?
Anybody counted the (gasp) "carbon footprint" of sending an Econoline to your house every 3 months to repair all this fangled jiggerypockery for those who don't know which end of a screwdriver goes where (almost ALL Americans)?
Ask google 'how many water heaters ignite flammable vapor' and it won't even answer you. Go ahead, try it. It's an imaginary problem. Unlike say, the death of 7 kids in NY from an unattended hotplate left running in observance of some religious ritual against lighting fires.
Can't outlaw stupid. Can institutionalize it, that's what goobermint excels at.
Howzbout this? Almost nobody operates a fridge without operating a waterheater. The fridge dumps over 1kW in waste heat, running roughly 12-7-365. Catch that heat and put it in the water. Why do I have to think of EVERYthing?
My neighbor just replaced his gas water heater. The company that was doing the install stated he needed his chimney lined with stainless steel. They gave him a price and he was floored. They took out the new gas water heater that was not installed yet and brought in an electric one. The chimney was fine as is and still has a gas furnace attached to it. He did not want to go the route of a fan exhaust gas water heater. I have friends who have them and replace them every couple of years. Not something I want in my house.
Jon
Jon
whirlcool
Well-known member
Every few years we do have a gas water tank explosion around here. What happens is that people in this area usually have the tank in the attic or in the garage due to the lack of basements. Someone sets off one of those bug bombs in their closed off garages to kill roaches or spiders. Then during this process the water tank turns on.
Boom! There goes your garage! The blast usually blows the main door off its tracks and starts the contents on fire. The directions on the bug bomb products warn against using the product near a water heater, but since when do people read instructions?
Boom! There goes your garage! The blast usually blows the main door off its tracks and starts the contents on fire. The directions on the bug bomb products warn against using the product near a water heater, but since when do people read instructions?
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
God knows
what my water heater looks like inside! It's all electric AO Smith 50 gallon and about 10.5 yrs old and I've never done anything to it other than adjusted the temp here and there. I'm wondering how much longer it will last. There is no way in HE!! I would try to install one myself. I have NO clue what brand to even get or where to get it.
what my water heater looks like inside! It's all electric AO Smith 50 gallon and about 10.5 yrs old and I've never done anything to it other than adjusted the temp here and there. I'm wondering how much longer it will last. There is no way in HE!! I would try to install one myself. I have NO clue what brand to even get or where to get it.
Replacing an electric water heater doesn't involve much more ruckus than swapping a washing machine or dishwasher, assuming there's no rigamarole involved for plumbing code changes.
kb0nes
Well-known member
These are all good changes in my opinion. A standing pilot on a water heater is just silly today. I hope that they toss out those ridiculous mechanical thermostats too. I have tried two different ones in my Whirlpool branded water heater and the dead band is over a 20 degree delta. I'm tempted to just build a proper electronic control with a furnace valve!
I for one am pleased with governmental regulation of energy efficiency of various every day products. We'd be in far worse shape overall if it came down to the consumers to make these decisions. Heck about 1/2 the country doesn't even believe in science anymore...
I for one am pleased with governmental regulation of energy efficiency of various every day products. We'd be in far worse shape overall if it came down to the consumers to make these decisions. Heck about 1/2 the country doesn't even believe in science anymore...
norgeway
Well-known member
Mechanical controls
Are much more reliable than electronic,and much easier and cheaper to fix or replace when they do fail.
Are much more reliable than electronic,and much easier and cheaper to fix or replace when they do fail.
kb0nes
Well-known member
Hans,
Sorry I disagree here. How does one fix a mechanical control on a water heater? Chuck it... $125 (done it twice now in 8 years) An electronic control is quite likely cheaper to manufacture, so even if the "repair" is the same it could be less expensive.
Also this mantra that electronics are unreliable is just dogma. Designed properly electronics will long outlast mechanical controls, there is no wear. The issue here isn't mechanical vs electronic control, its quality of design! I bet mechanical controls of all sorts today, are no where near as reliable of those of years gone by. Lets see how many 2010 vintage mechanical washing machine timers are still running in 30 years...
Sorry I disagree here. How does one fix a mechanical control on a water heater? Chuck it... $125 (done it twice now in 8 years) An electronic control is quite likely cheaper to manufacture, so even if the "repair" is the same it could be less expensive.
Also this mantra that electronics are unreliable is just dogma. Designed properly electronics will long outlast mechanical controls, there is no wear. The issue here isn't mechanical vs electronic control, its quality of design! I bet mechanical controls of all sorts today, are no where near as reliable of those of years gone by. Lets see how many 2010 vintage mechanical washing machine timers are still running in 30 years...
Phil, I can't entirely disagree with you, but the reality is that these boards are going to be cranked out by the lowest bidder with the cheapest components the supplier can get away with. A thin conformal coat (if you're lucky) won't cut it in the long term for the wet, corrosive environments a lot of these units will see. Considerations for tolerance drift? Forget it.
No doubt there'll be a micro and "diagnostics" via a blinking LED, which also means software and the joys that can bring. Where a generic t-stat can often be made to work, forget it with this approach. It's a cash-cow for the manufacturer (sorry, that board is obsolete). Not a big deal for someone handy with electronics, but try explaining that to my grandma when there's nothing mechanically wrong with her WH but the service people say it needs to be replaced. I've already been down that road with her furnace.
I have trouble seeing how this is an improvement when risk goes up but functionality does not, and energy spent ends up a wash.
No doubt there'll be a micro and "diagnostics" via a blinking LED, which also means software and the joys that can bring. Where a generic t-stat can often be made to work, forget it with this approach. It's a cash-cow for the manufacturer (sorry, that board is obsolete). Not a big deal for someone handy with electronics, but try explaining that to my grandma when there's nothing mechanically wrong with her WH but the service people say it needs to be replaced. I've already been down that road with her furnace.
I have trouble seeing how this is an improvement when risk goes up but functionality does not, and energy spent ends up a wash.
norgeway
Well-known member
I guess
Im stuck in the past, because I don't want any thing new in my house, When I see new,,,I see CHEAP!
Im stuck in the past, because I don't want any thing new in my house, When I see new,,,I see CHEAP!
gusherb
Well-known member
Bradford White and A.O. Smith have been using the new Honeywell Smart control or whatever it is that they call it on water heaters for about 4 years now, indeed they did have a lot of nuisance issues at first that caused the pilot to go out etc but from what I've heard the kinks are worked out now. And indeed they're much more accurate.
Also Rheem just recently started using them as well within the past year or so. I'm personally not worried about the electronic gas valves, as long as they're proven reliable. It's the extra cost and 120 volt requirement that irks me, and throwing electronic ignition in the works does needlessly complicate things as far as water heaters go.
I'm sure in 5 years when they work the kinks out of the new products coming out now I won't even think twice about having a water heater with electronic ignition and a draft hood damper. I will probably buy a UPS to plug it into so I can have my hot water during power outages though.
Also Rheem just recently started using them as well within the past year or so. I'm personally not worried about the electronic gas valves, as long as they're proven reliable. It's the extra cost and 120 volt requirement that irks me, and throwing electronic ignition in the works does needlessly complicate things as far as water heaters go.
I'm sure in 5 years when they work the kinks out of the new products coming out now I won't even think twice about having a water heater with electronic ignition and a draft hood damper. I will probably buy a UPS to plug it into so I can have my hot water during power outages though.
Electric water heater replacement is easy
What makes it seem hard is that you need to deal with power wires individually rather than plugging something in like the dryer. I have replaced mine twice in the 37-odd years I have owned my house. Water has lots of calcium and I'm not always on top of it when the softener runs out of salt. I drain the sediment periodically.
What makes it seem hard is that you need to deal with power wires individually rather than plugging something in like the dryer. I have replaced mine twice in the 37-odd years I have owned my house. Water has lots of calcium and I'm not always on top of it when the softener runs out of salt. I drain the sediment periodically.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
All these talks are really clueless....don't you realize it???
Eco stuff etc..is not needed! And most of times is just yet another thing to get the rich richer and the real responsible more irresponsible, it's all a plan and the goal is just this $$$$$$$$$$$$!
We could have had cars running with hemp, corn whatever oil since centuries and first cars were put on market Ford year 1903 , now even more sustaible stuff like hydrogen and lot of other things, same with heaters and the electricity plants we have a HUUUGE amount of renewabloe sources to pick from if the governments really wanted to, yet the big ones so the government along with the oil lobbies force you to use and change to crappy unfunctional appliances because they're making LOOOTS of money over them and this HE_ECO whatever craze, and this in order to use less of their "fuels" that they will make sure to rise and rise.... but you gotta keep using them... etc...when the matter would really be simple...we could have quitted using coal, gas and gasoline for lots of stuff since lots of time now if they wanted to, can you imagine all the new cars you see around if they were not gas anymore but hydrogen? There would be no oil crisis and really less problems.....but that's a business!
So is not this way wer're going to solve the problems, if they really are problems...
All I see are excuses and made up things, made up crisis made up wars...everything is an agenda everything is taken as a chance to make money, this is the only thing I see they care of.....this is not how we're going to changhe the world!
So you can't ask me to be OK with it!
Eco stuff etc..is not needed! And most of times is just yet another thing to get the rich richer and the real responsible more irresponsible, it's all a plan and the goal is just this $$$$$$$$$$$$!
We could have had cars running with hemp, corn whatever oil since centuries and first cars were put on market Ford year 1903 , now even more sustaible stuff like hydrogen and lot of other things, same with heaters and the electricity plants we have a HUUUGE amount of renewabloe sources to pick from if the governments really wanted to, yet the big ones so the government along with the oil lobbies force you to use and change to crappy unfunctional appliances because they're making LOOOTS of money over them and this HE_ECO whatever craze, and this in order to use less of their "fuels" that they will make sure to rise and rise.... but you gotta keep using them... etc...when the matter would really be simple...we could have quitted using coal, gas and gasoline for lots of stuff since lots of time now if they wanted to, can you imagine all the new cars you see around if they were not gas anymore but hydrogen? There would be no oil crisis and really less problems.....but that's a business!
So is not this way wer're going to solve the problems, if they really are problems...
All I see are excuses and made up things, made up crisis made up wars...everything is an agenda everything is taken as a chance to make money, this is the only thing I see they care of.....this is not how we're going to changhe the world!
So you can't ask me to be OK with it!
beekeyknee
Well-known member
Here's my w/h. Glad I got this done before all this nonsense started. It's doesn't make a sound, I never run out of hot water and it doesn't cost much more to run than the one that lasted 6 years. I'm very happy.
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?41978
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?41978
norgeway
Well-known member
I have an electric water heater
But im going to start looking for a pilot gas model just in case I do change at some point, darned if im going to have one without a pilot light, or a gas range either for that matter..We had a oil fired water heater at home and it was absolutely wonderful...HOT HOT water and you never ran out.Kenmoreguy 89 hit the nail on the head..its all about money!
But im going to start looking for a pilot gas model just in case I do change at some point, darned if im going to have one without a pilot light, or a gas range either for that matter..We had a oil fired water heater at home and it was absolutely wonderful...HOT HOT water and you never ran out.Kenmoreguy 89 hit the nail on the head..its all about money!
Right now I'm doing a little homework, slightly tipsy but up and I wanted to know
how much a pilot light uses in one day.
This is a start, but it by how many homes has this current set up and it is out of this world!
(ME, ME, ME)?
What about us in a whole?
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Pilot-Lights-What-a-Waste-of-Energy.html
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conservation/1236-pilot-light-gas-usage.html
how much a pilot light uses in one day.
This is a start, but it by how many homes has this current set up and it is out of this world!
(ME, ME, ME)?
What about us in a whole?
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Pilot-Lights-What-a-Waste-of-Energy.html
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conservation/1236-pilot-light-gas-usage.html
kb0nes
Well-known member
Spot on Larry, the 24/7/365 losses are IMMENSE when you consider the millions of pilots that are just doing nothing right now.
There has been a lot of resistance to modernize water heater controls since it will require the first time connection to AC power. The newest high efficiency induced draft models have been using AC power for the inducer blower for a long while already.
Its been a very long while since we could buy a furnace with a standing pilot, its time for water heaters to take the step up too. It makes no sense to not go for the low hanging fruit when it comes to conservation. Conservation may not make a huge effect on the lives of the people reading this board today, but what about future generations?
There has been a lot of resistance to modernize water heater controls since it will require the first time connection to AC power. The newest high efficiency induced draft models have been using AC power for the inducer blower for a long while already.
Its been a very long while since we could buy a furnace with a standing pilot, its time for water heaters to take the step up too. It makes no sense to not go for the low hanging fruit when it comes to conservation. Conservation may not make a huge effect on the lives of the people reading this board today, but what about future generations?
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Since we're talking about water heaters
this makes me want to ask a question. In Lexington, we have moderately hard water (they say) and I do not have a water softener. To me, the water here is VERY hard, not just moderately hard....But that said, there is no sediment at all in my toilet tanks after ten plus years. Like I said, I've never drained the hot water heater in 10 plus years. So I wonder, since it's never been drained, would draining it cause problems because of all of the muck that must be in there by now? I've seen the inside of hot water heaters online that were half full of hardened minerals and I'm trying to figure out how would that go through the hose you're using to drain it. I may do this sometime soon. I know the water needs to be turned off and a few things need to be done before you turn the water heater back on. Things like this intimidate me. Anything with plumbing and electricity.....
this makes me want to ask a question. In Lexington, we have moderately hard water (they say) and I do not have a water softener. To me, the water here is VERY hard, not just moderately hard....But that said, there is no sediment at all in my toilet tanks after ten plus years. Like I said, I've never drained the hot water heater in 10 plus years. So I wonder, since it's never been drained, would draining it cause problems because of all of the muck that must be in there by now? I've seen the inside of hot water heaters online that were half full of hardened minerals and I'm trying to figure out how would that go through the hose you're using to drain it. I may do this sometime soon. I know the water needs to be turned off and a few things need to be done before you turn the water heater back on. Things like this intimidate me. Anything with plumbing and electricity.....
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