cadillac eldorado 1967-85

[cfz2882]

saw an '85 cadillac eldorado for sale today and that reminded me i liked the FWD/lengthwize engine era of eldorados-i didn't look at the '85 because i am at my max for cars and i don't care for the "HT4100" engine in the '82-85s*,but a few years ago saw a same bodystyle '79 that i did consider-had a delco/bendix fuel injected 350 oldsmobile engine in it as stock,'80-81s had a cadillac 368-'81s with the imfamous v8-6-4 system that was usually disconnected so engine would always run in v8 mode.A friend had a '74"big"eldorado with the 500 and though HP was only about 200,it had massive torque at low RPM-would smoke the front tires with ease on this ~5300 LB car. I haven't seen a '67-69 on the road in a while.
*The HT4100 engine seems to have a bad reliability reputation-some of the problems i have heard of with this iron head/aluminum block engine include:
-oil pump can fall apart and ruin engine if not shut off when light comes on.
-cam bearings can move out of position
-excess cam wear has been reported
-head gasket problems
It is said 1984 and later 4100(250 CI) engines are improved from the early versions.
Also that engine is too small to properly propel a cadillac anyway-even a "small"~4000 LB one...

 

[supersuds]

A friend bought a '75 Eldorado convertible. I never liked their styling from that era and am more partial to Lincolns if we're talking Sixties/Seventies barges, but I have to admit the Cad is a nice car. It has some obscure brake problem he's never been able to diagnose, something to do with the hydraulic assist, I think.

He didn't realize it had an 8 track player built in. You know, the kind where you just push the cartridge in to the radio dial and it slides in. Ancient stuff now, a real luxury in 1975.

 

[alr2903]

A good friend had an early 80's Olds Toronado. It had a great ride and the most comfortable seats I have ever experienced. I remember it seemed to be in the service department frequently for a brand new car. 30 years later I still remember the "ride", the power and how sturdy it was. alr

 

[cfz2882]

toronado

the '80-85 toro came with a 307 oldsmobile-a good engine that cadillac would use in their RWD cars 1985-90,replacing the 250 and 368 cadi engines.I'm not sure what engine the same style '79 toros had-probably a 350 olds.
Supersuds:I also had to demonstrate the same style of delco 8-track player to the owner of a ~1975 chevy monte carlo LOL.

 

[swestoyz]

I recently just picked up an '84 Riviera T-Type.  The 84 and 85 T-Type Rivs feature the same engine as the '84 and '85 Grand National and T-Type Regals, with a modified trans-axle that was beefed up to Turbo Regal specs.  I've driven several stock '79 through '85 E-Bodies, and I have to say the EFI Turbo Rivs are by far the most fun to drive.  It is a shame that Cadillac didn't throw the Buick Turbo 3.8 in the '84 and '85 Eldo Touring Coupes.

 

The 79 Riv/Eldo/Toros all shared the same Olds small block for the V8 option, the 350, however as it was previously mentioned the '79 Eldos shared the same Bendix EFI system as the 75-79 Sevilles, with the Riv and Toros finding aspiration via a QuadraJet. 

 

While the 307 Olds found in later cars can be considered a slug, it's a fairly reliable engine.  The 368 Cad is also a nice option in the '80 and '81 Eldos.  I love the bad-rap the '81 V864 cars get but yet everyone talks about disabling the cylinder shut-off system, leaving them with the same combo as the '80 at that point.

 

I'm not an expert on the 4100, but I know a few folks here on the board have dealt with them

 

Who's driven one of these with a Diesel?

 

Ben

 

 

[retropia]

I had a '67 Eldorado for many years. A beautiful car, but too rich for my pocketbook. It is like an American exotic, and I couldn't afford the parts and maintenance.

Many parts were one-year-only, and sometimes the same part came in multiple, slightly different versions depending on how the car was optioned.

As far as the later Eldos, the HT4100 is not a good engine. Some people are able to baby them and get ok service out of them, but you just never know when they're about to fail.

If you like that '79-'85 body style, I'd be tempted to go with the earlier pre-HT4100 models, or instead get a Toronado or Riviera.

 

[cfz2882]

'67 eldo engine

bet that '67 eldo had some power though-didn't those have a 472(?)CI engine with decently high compression. The mainenence and parts situation might be why i haven't seen an early eldo on the road in about 25 yrs.I knew a guy who had a '66 toronado and he seemed to be working on that often-one day they went to town in his '81 toro and returned to thier remote home to find the '66 had caught fire just sitting in the yard and completely burnt up!-he reconed the power seat may have malfunctioned and caused the fire as he was having problems with the seat,but i don't know if those have power with the ignition switch off.

 

[danemodsandy]

'67 Eldorado

The '67 is one of the very few truly great postwar designs from Cadillac in the 20th Century (another is the '49 Sedan de Ville). Until very recently, Cadillac preferred to attract a certain sort of customer who liked lots and lots of ornamentation; it was rare that the division came up with anything clean-lined.

While the '67 was a welcome exception to that rule, Cadillac couldn't wait to trowel on more ornamentation in subsequent years, getting away from the cleanness of the original '67 design. More doodads were ladled on each year until a new body style was introduced in '71 - a body with such ornately-styled sheetmetal that the decoration almost didn't matter.

P.S.: The '67 Eldo was styled to accept a vinyl roof, and many were ordered with one, but it looks far better without.

 

[philr]

-didn't those have a 472(?)CI engine

In 1967, Cadillacs (including the Eldorado) still had the 429. The Toronado still had a 425 and the Riviera had an all new 430 to replace their "Nailhead" 425. The Cadillac 472 was introduced on 1968 models and Olds stroked their 425 to 455 that year too. In 1970, Buick increased the bore of their 430 to 455.

 

[hydralique]

Toro & Eldo thoughts . . .

My boss at my first real job out of college had a '79 Toronado diesel. By the time I was hired it was a few years old and had evidently never been very reliable, having had a replacement engine and chronic transmission leaks. My boss was well-off but very cheap and finally just added fluid every week. I still recall one time when he was going to a party at the house of one of the Bass brothers (the billionaire Fort Worth family that controlled Disney at the time). My boss, who was an exceptionally fine and highly regarded architect, had to drive from Dallas to the house and he was excited as it meant a nice opportunity to chat with well-connected people while in one of his own creations. Out of the blue he said "Oh my goodness, I'll have to check the fluid on the Toronado, it just wouldn't do for the valet to bring it around and have it stall in the driveway!"

 

Shortly after that he replaced it with a new '86 Toronado that I drove a few times; it seemed to be a pleasant if unexciting car. Once I had it overnight in the winter after having dropped him at DFW for a trip to his Colorado home. I still recall being amazed at how nice the automatic climate control was in the morning. I don't think he had a thing one way or another for Toronados but he was friends with the owner of an Olds dealership. The second car was much more reliable than the first as long as I knew it.

 

I've also known a few earlier cars, friends have had a '66 Toronado, a ram-air '70 Toronado, and a very nice '67 Eldorado. They're technically interesting and well made but GM seemed to have little interest in how well they drove, the first models didn't even have front disc brakes on a very heavy and powerful front-drive car! Magazines at the time sometimes couldn't even get one successful panic stop from 80 mph out of a Toronado, yet the car was capable of impressive acceleration and a top speed of over 125 mph. I'm trying to think of another brand new platform introduced by any company that late that didn't have disc brakes at least in the front. It's not as if GM didn't have the ability, the Corvette got four-wheel discs as standard in '65 and they work really well - I've spent more than a few miles in a '66 - yet the vastly heavier Toronado didn't get them.  Eventually the cars got front discs but even then I don't think they were more than just adequate.

 

Two interesting vehicles came with all or part of the Toronado powertrain: the big front-drive GM motorhome, and the mid-engined rear drive Vector W-2 and W-8. The Vectors were built here in California by Jerry Wiegert and intended to challenge Ferrari and Lamborghini. He used a much-modified turbocharged Chevy small block and a B & M built GM automatic based on the Toronado trans. IIRC the engine and trans are transverse with the trans toward the front of the car and a small driveshaft to take the power under the sump to a separate differential. Supposedly it worked really, really well when it worked but Wiegert never had the money to develop it or put it into real production. After an ownership change a couple of Vectors were built with a Lamborghini powertrain and then the whole thing died. I've seen one on the street, not sure if it was GM or Lambo powered.

[this post was last edited: 5/12/2013-21:05]

 

[philr]

The Toronado as well as the Riviera and Eldorado got disc brakes available as an option in 1967.
GM was a bit late at introducing disc brakes on most of it's models but by 1967, most models could be equipped with them.

I do have 12" vented front disc brakes with Bendix 4 piston calipers on my 1967 Riviera GS and they are quite good. They were not a popular option on fullsize Buicks as they already had standard 12" finned drums all around, and the front drums they replaced at the extra cost of $78 were made of aluminum, had good fade-resistance and they were really not that bad.

I've never driven a Toronado or Eldorado from the same generation with either drum or disc brakes and I know both systems were different from those used in Buicks. I think the Toronado had standard 11" cast iron drums while the Cadillac had 12" cast iron drums. The Toronado and Eldorado did share the same disc brake setup which was also different from Buick's system but they still used some kind of 4 piston calipers.

The main problem I had with my disc brakes is to get replacement parts for them. It's still easy to get brake pads but the last time I checked, you still couldn't get new replacement rotors for 1967-69 full size Buicks and the Bendix calipers are also hard to find and expensive to rebuild. The Buick system also has a strange design as the calipers are bolted to the backing plates instead of being bolted to the steering knuckle! That doesn't cause real problems but it does require to have very thick (and heavy) backing plates which add some unsprung weight.

 

[alr2903]

Hydraliquie, had to smile at "wouldn't do".

Wiki has many pictures of these older auto's. The Wiki article on the Toro mentions conversion from diesel back to gasoline for some of the disillusioned. Who paid for that GM or the owner? Scary. alr

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Riv, Eldo, Toro thoughts!

Saw the neighbor's '85 Toro over-heat, then replaced w/ a '89 Volvo, after that!

A manager at the K-Mart that I briefly worked at had a '79-to-'85 Riv; like he was some big shot w/ the deeply tinted windows & all!

I wish that I got to ride in the lady across the street's bright red '73 Eldo convertible w/ the top DOWN! (And to this day I have NEVER ridden in anything that didn't have a roof!)

-- Dave

 

[cadman]

The 82-85 Eldos

The biggest weakness of the HT4100 was casting porosity. Eventually coolant would find its way into the oil and you'd wipe a cam lobe or prematurely wear the oil pump drive gear. GM engineers worked with OMC to correct many of the weaknesses of the original aluminum design, and the 84/85 blocks (and the 'Goodwrench' replacements) have these improvements (along with a 10HP bump). The 86/87 transverse blocks are even better.

Like the diesel, these engines required maintenance that traditional US buyers weren't accustomed to. Besides the standard oil change, it was recommended that the coolant be flushed/filled annually and coolant supplement tablets added. This was also a period where some dealers recommended Dexcool and others the regular glycol and of course the two don't mix. Of course if you find a 4100 still running today odds are it's a safe bet. 30 years is a pretty good shakeout period.

The '79 Eldos may have the bullet proof engine, but the details on the 84's and 85's make them my favorite. -Cory

 

[revvinkevin]

Who's driven one of these with a Diesel?

 

 

My uncle had an '81 Seville with the V8-6-4 thing.   Even though it had a few problems, he kept the multi-cylinder mode functional.    Though he was never happy with the MPG it got, he always felt it should have been better.

 

A friend has a '66 Toronado and a '67 Eldorado, both in beautiful shape.   Another friend (with like 20 cars) also has a beautiful '66 Toronado.   Very nice cars, but poor gas mileage!   One drove his '66 Toro up to our car clubs   

 

>> Ben, did they ever put the V8 diesel in the front drive Riv/Eldo/Toro??  I remember seeing the diesel on other models, but not those.

 

On diesels, I used to have a 1980 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham with the (Olds 5.7L) diesel.  Bought it used with 120K for $2500 and sold it with 200K for $1000.   It did have a brand new "Goodwrench crate motor" diesel engine (alternator, starter, batteries & tires too) with the latest "DX" block.   The "DX" designation engines had all the latest design improvements including the "roller cam". 

 

The engine itself was bullet proof: always started**, never burned or leaked a single drop of oil.   It would do 28 MPG @ 65 MPH (with A/C) all day long.   It was the exterior "bolt on" stuff that gave me trouble.   In 80K miles, I went through 3 transmissions, 5 alternators and one injector pump**.

 

The Turbo 200C transmission.   This is basically the same trans they put in the Chevette and was too "light weight" to be behind the diesel.    It was nearly ready for it's 4th trans when I sold it.   

 

The alternator.   The original 120 amp unit failed (voltage regulator I believe) and since the Pep Boys had a lifetime replacement warranty, I took advantage of it.   Well ladies & gentleman, that decision turned out to be a HUGE mistake!   Lifetime replacement, yeah, but what they didn't tell you was the rebuilt units they sold under this were TOTAL C R A P ! ! !     The first rebuilt Alt lasted about 5 months... the 2nd a month and a half... 3rd one 4 months and the 4th, 2 months.   At this point I took the alternator back to Pep Boys and demanded a refund.   The guy said "You'll loose your $75 core deposit" but I didn't care.   Later I was visiting a friend (who scrounged through the wrecking yards occationally) and told him my story.   He said "you know, I think I have one of those..." and sold it to me for what he paid, $25.   That alternator lasted more than 3 years when I sold the car.

 

**The injector pump.  On day the car failed to start.  Inside the Roosamaster injector pumps GM used on their diesels, it had a plastic wheel type part, which over time got brittle and would break.  When this happened the engine would not run.  After speaking to the instructor for the diesel fuel injection class I completed 4 months prior, I R&R'd the pump myself and took it to him.   He worked at a place in LA that rebuilt diesel injectors and pumps and he was able to get it rebuilt for the cost of parts only, no labor!   It ended up costing me $111 + my labor.   Cheap!   (for anyone interested *snooooore*, they replaced the plastic wheel thing with a metal one, so it would never have that problem again!)

 

I'm sure most of you were snoring by the time you got half way through my post, IF you got THAT far

 but once started typing, I just couldn't stop.   I apologize for boring you! 

 

Kevin

 

[swestoyz]

Kevin -

 

Oh yes, the 79-85 E & K bodies all could be ordered with a 5.7 Olds Diesel.  Cory and I have joked for years that an 84/85 Diesel Riv/Toro/Eldo would be a fun car to have as a daily driver.  In fact, when the new K body Seville was introduced in 1980, it came standard with the Diesel.  The Cad engine was the cost optional upgrade!

 

Phil - thanks for the detailed info on the 67-70 Buick Disc brake options.  I haven't played around with very many B/C body cars from before 1971, so the details on the disc brakes are interesting.  My Dad's 70 GS Stage 1 had aluminum front drums, but I'm not sure how big they were.  The few times I drove the car I thought it braked pretty well.

 

IIRC, Discs were standard on the Eldos from '68 on, with the Toro getting them as standard in '71, however I've seen quite a few '69 and '70 Toros with Discs.   The stopping power of my old '69 Toro was fantastic, as it featured the revised single piston disc brakes.  Those first gen cars are fun to drive!

 

Ben

 

[retropia]

When I drove my '67 Eldo, the primary rule in braking was to "plan ahead," LOL.

 

[cadman]

Brakes....

For those serious about it, the disc brake setup from the 71-78 Eldos will fit the first gen cars with some work. I've never done it myself, but the multi-piston calipers and unobtainium parts have inspired others to go this direction.

Some of you guys might remember my old website started back in the late 90's to chronicle all things E-body before there were club sites and online forums. Eldocountry.com

 

[philr]

Ben,

The GS 400 and GS 455 as well as some SportWagons had standard 11" aluminum brake drums starting in 1967 with 11" discs as an option (with Delco-Moraine 4 piston calipers in 1967-68, same as in other GM A bodies). Most full size Buicks had 12" drums from 1957 (on the Roadmaster 75 only that year) to 1970. In 1967, they doubled the number of cooling fins (from 45 to 90) on drums and 12" discs became available. 1958 Specials and 1964-70 LeSabres equipped with the small block engines had cast iron drums. 

 

And your Riviera looks nice! Does it have bucket seats with a small console? The only Turbo Buick I have driven was a 1980 Riviera S/Type with the 4 barrel turbo and neither the car or the engine were in nice shape!