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luxflairguy

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Dr. Laundress, I need some advice. I have lots of white sheets, kitchen towels and such that need a good bleach wash. My washer is a Miele W1930. Have you ever done a bleach wash in your Miele? The biggest concern I have detergent/bleach ratio and should I use American detergent instead of Persil and then there's dealing with the controls. My machine is also a non-windowed model, so I won't get to see if it over-sudes or not.
Your help would be greatly appreciated! Others chime in too! Greg
 
Until...

The Laundress has been summoned, I was told by L. and members of the board, that Liquid Chlorine Bleach would cancel out the Oxygen (?) Bleach and other exciters in the Persil.

I'm no Expert, but I think (as I do) a HOT wash (Run two cycles) should do it with Persil. I have great results in my Toploaders with Hot Wash, let it agitate for 5 minutes, then I shut the machine off and let the materials soak for 30-60 minutes then let her go on her merry way through the cycle.
 
Now that I've had my nap I can answer!
My Miele only goes up to 170 degrees. I was thinking of chlorine bleach aka Clorox. I'm not familiar with oxygen bleach. It that the dry powdered bleach? I also wonder about using an oxygen bleach with Persil. I to, like Eddie had thought about using more Persil and letting it agitate for 5 minutes or so oand then using the on/off switch, shutting off the machine and letting things soak, with a periodic agitation time and then let her (her name is Francis) go through the rest of the cycle. Perhaps I should be using the prewash setting also?
Laundrying minds want to know! Greg
 
As per the W1930 manual on page 12 do not use chlorine bleach!

 

You should be able to use a hot cotton wash and Persil or some other product with Bleach Alternative and get them clean with little or no pretreatment. I'm sure Laundress will have some better advice.
 
Much Will Depened Upon What You Are Trying To Do

If speaking of bed and kitchen linens that have residual stains, are dingy and or otherwise are in need of brightening, then even a low temp "boil wash" with oxygen bleach (sodium perborate or sodium percarbonate) should get you where you want to go.

OTHO, if for some reason the items in question cannot withstand high wash temps and or long periods of it, then careful use of chlorine bleach may be in order.

Miele strongly advises against the use of LCB in their older washers, however Miele customer support and techs have told me on several occasions that "once and a while use" won't cause that much damage. Contrary to popular belief it isn't just the stainless steel drums one has to worry about, but the various sensors located between the drums. One assumes by this Miele means some are made of metals and or other materials that could be damaged by prolonged/repeated contact with chlorine bleach.

Being as all this may, here are your options:

Oxygen Bleach.

Persil contains sodium percarbonate already, but if the items are badly stained or otherwise as above, you don't want more detergent, but some surfactants are required for better results.

Use about 1/2 to 1/4 of your usual dosage of Persil. Add 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup of pure oxygen bleach (sodium percarbonate is best, you can find it in health food stores sold under "Ecover" brand, otherwise order from such places as Chemistry Store.com).

Set the washer for longest cycle at hottest water temp, and allow the washer to do it's thing. Am assuming your W1930 is set to cold fill and on 220v power. The length of time for water heating, plus the long cycle are plenty enough time for the oxygen bleach to do it's work.

For the final rinse add about 1/4 of white vinegar to remove any remaining traces of oxidising agent (oxygen bleach).

Chlorine Bleach:

Instead of Persil, use any American "HE" rated detergent in the wash, as oxygen bleach and chlorine bleach will cancel each other out. Set the washer to "Hot" (about 120F or 140F), wash cycle and let it do it's thing.

As the machine fills for the first rinse, add the recommended "HE" dosage of chlorine bleach down the dispenser. Personally I'd go with the versions of Clorox or whatever designed for "HE" washers as they are thicker and less likely to splash about, but you can also use whatever you've got.

Unlike oxygen bleach, chlorine bleach only requires about five minutes to do it's work. Any stains or soils not removed within that time aren't going to shift, and longer contact can only lead to textile damage. Also for purposes of a Miele washer, you don't want the stuff in the drums that long. If your washer is like my W1070, the first rinse is rather long (about three to five minutes), so again this is plenty of time.

Let the washer complete the final three rinses, then reset for another series of rinses, adding about 1/2 cup of white vinegar to the final rinse to act as a "antichlor". You want to make sure *all* chlorine bleach is removed from the textiles. If you can still smell LCB on fabrics as they come from the washer, repeat the rinsing again.

There is a saying in commercial laundry circles: "wash cycle is for washing, and a bleach cycle is for bleaching". That is to say commercial laundries rarely add chlorine bleach to the main wash bath. In the case of your Miele since you cannot control when the wash cycle ends, it could be difficult to use LCB in the main wash.

As stated above you neither want nor need to have chlorine bleach in contact for the entire wash cycle. Both long and short choices on these units are vastly longer than required time wise, and as I've already said, after about five minutes nothing really is being done but degrading the fabric.

Now there are other ways of using LCB in a front loader, but not sure if your washer takes "hot" or "warm" fill, and one has to allow for a period of time for the detergent and bleach to mix with water and textiles. The reason for using a hot wash before the bleach "rinse" is that the carry over heat from the first cycle will be enough to speed up the bleaching action. Even with cold water coming in for the rinse, the heat from drum/textiles means you'll probably end up with warm to slighly hot water (depending upon how high you set the wash temperature).
 
I use UK Persil Bio powder and liquid chlorine bleach when I wash loads of kitchen whites or sheets (mine are white) and sometimes even bath towels.

My washer injects bleach during the first rinse, so I don't have to worry about any canceling effects. The detergent has already done its job and been spun out.

I recently washed a relatively small (maybe about 7 pounds) of highly-stained kitchen whites without adding bleach. Most stains were removed by the Persil and 152-degree water, but a few really tough grease + tomato-based stains weren't completely eliminated. Ergo: Bleach does help remove stains.

I've always used LCB on whites, and probably will continue to do so, even if it seems horribly old-fashioned. Never have to worry about mold/mildew build-up, either.
 
For whitest whites:

Use a good powder with an oxygen bleach, either integral or as an addition

Use 1 tbs STPP per 2 tbs powder. Adjust total quantity as needed.

Run the hottest cycle possible compatible with the fabrics.

I typically run my Miele W1930 at 160F with the above formulation for whites. The whites come out blindingly bright. Stains don't have a chance.
 

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