Can someone explain religion to me?

[lokringbob]

Napoleon stated it simply

I’m a recovering Catholic and I think Napoleon stated it simply and correctly “Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich”

Please don’t mistake this as a cry of disbelief. I believe in God, I just don’t believe in any religions. The nuns cured me of that when I was little.
In a religion class, specifically First Communion Education, the nun who taugh our class said “God knows everything. He knew you were going to be born… before your parents were born… and even before their grandparents were born. He knew you’re going to sneeze before you sneezed.“

So this got me thinking (Yes, at 8 years old! Pretty heavy, huh ?!) He… oh,sorry… She… No, no… IT… (GOD) knows everything! So at the end of this game we call Life, He is going to be sitting there saying "Oh, I’m sorry. You're GAY, you’re an adulterer, or you’re a robber and I knew you were going to be this way before you were born. I knew you would not be able to resist this “life style" that YOU have chosen. Because of this, you do NOT get to go past GO and you do NOT collect $200. And, oh yeah, I knew that too, but still wanted to see you go through life anyway just so I could deny you in the end."

It is Man that cannot love unconditionally and forgive all. Not God ! I know He loves me and He knows I love Him/Her and don’t need a man selling me a little green prayer cloth on TV to know this!

 

[sdlee]

how i was raised

i was raised by the church of my American mom and dad (lol)

Moms family were cathoilics (or mostly ex cathoilics coz its such an esay club to get out of)

My dads family was nothing but they did go to church on Christmas and Easter when the kids were little

Mom said...they should be catholic
Dad said...they should grow up and decide for themselves.

Rare as it was dads way won this one. We did go to Sunday School(hell free babysitting for a few hours) and in the summer we went to Vacation Bible School (probably more free babysitting)

to answer matts question.....what do i believe? A higher power, and thats it. Is it man with a hippie beard in a gown wearing sandles? I dont know, i just think a higher power. The Great Spirit as the Sioux refers to him (or her, or it)

Why do i believe? ....too many miricales around for me to not believe. What moves a woman to lift a 3000 pound car of her husband? Adrenillin? ok but where did that come from?

how does a baby fall off twenty story building and not only live but has not even one broken bone?

How does cancer miraculously leave a body that all the best doctors has written off as a matter of time?

how does one nearly miss a tragedy just because something nagged at them to lag behind?

tons of this out there every single day.

My mother never,ever once refeered to her dad as father. It was always daddy. On her deathbed after 9 days of lying dead only kept alive by machines and constant scanning for brain activity we signed her out of this world. As her heart beat slowed she raised her hand and said a word that sounded like father.Then she seemed to fall back to sleep with a satisfied grin.

what i feel is proof is everywhere. in the meer fact that i can manage enough energy to make the movements to type this is living proof that something none of us can understand is at work. You can call it science. I say science Is God.

Now to tackle religion..............Religion is great. If it works for you, you go to church, you come away feeling better, then there is not one thing wrong with that.

If you go coz you feel your gonna be forgiven for all the crap you know damn well you shouldnt have done well good luck on that.

religion while therapy for some for some of us others it is only marketing.People take it way too seriously just like all those Pepsi and coke ads that tell us they have the only drink to drink....oh and by the way you better look damn good while youre drinking it too.................hahaha cmon you guys...perspective!!!

God and gays................i think if he put people here he put diversity. I doubt sexuality was first and foremost in his mind.Maybe he thought well there should be man and woman so they can reproduce, but they dont ALL need to reproduce...if that was so every guy who shoots blanks should actually be gay and every barren woman should be a dyke.

But supposin he did think we should all have off srping.....did he plant that much wheat?we cant feed who we have now.....................

whoo hoo what a can of worms Matt, fun thread

PS I dont want to hi jack this thread so see my other postings for another fun rant.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Where logic ends, theology begins.

However when there is no logic at all and when the premises of one's "church" are so wacky, one DOES need to question......... IMHO.

Let's not confuse spirituality with religion. True spritualuty behind one's (outward mainifestation of ) religion may be fantastic; it's just the INTERPRETATION and EXECUTION via one's branch of religion that may leave a bit to be desired.

Ideally one brings their "vibration" and mentality up to the level of their (good) religion/sprituality. One does not ideally change alter or "lower" their religion to meet the demands of their (limited) mentality, current society, presently exisitng popular value system, etc.

 

[vacuumfreeeke]

Wow

Sdlee, thank you for ruining my new keyboard. Most of your post was funny, (especially the theory on infertile people being homosexual)... when I read that, chocolate milk was forcefully ejected from my nose in a violent fit of laughter. I am a little shocked that you'd use the word "dyke" on a board that is as populated by gay people as this one is. I don't know if this board has any female members, or any that are homosexual, but I'm quite sure they'd take offense at that word. You might as well call the rest of "us" (gay males) the "F" word.

I will also state that it has never made sense to me why people are the religion they are just because their parents were. What if there WAS only one right religion, and their parents had chosen the wrong one!? People should be free thinkers, not robots doing whatever their parents do, just because their parents do it!

 

[vinvac]

I have only breifly read some of the above postings. It truly saddens me to hear some of the above stories of how people have been treated by the other humans.

Personally, I could not have gotten where I am today if I did not have the faith in a God who created me. I grew up the son of two alcholic parents, was different as child from the other children, I have been married divorced and now realize why I felt different as child...the whole gay issue.

I have been held at gun point by three armed men wanting me to take them to the bank I was working at, involved in a car accident that I should have been horribly hurt in, lost a job do to corporate downsizing, had a new job in less than 2 weeks..people other than my own family have always been there for me when my parents would be so drunk, my own parents did not attend my high school graduation but other people from the community and relatives planned a graduation party for me.

The church has always been a safe place for me. As I have gotten older, I realize that someone else was looking after me. People have come into my life to care for and support me...I personally can't beleive this just happened...someone bigger than me had a part in all of that.

I realize that human beings claiming to be the Church have screwed things up...I can only hope that I live my life and my faith and carry it out as others have carried it out for me in my life.

The United Methodist Church is far from perfect, but we are truly working towards Open Hearts, Open Doors, Open Minds. When issues arrise that I disagree with, I don't turn my back and take offense, but rather openly show my love and support for the issues at hand...

Morgan

 

[andrewinorlando]

Morgan - that was very well said!! Thanks for sharing.

 

[laundromat]

We reap what we sew

How true that is.A lot of people truly believe that God "punnishes us"when we do something wrong.That is so far from true.There are always consiquences we have to face but they are caused by our right or wrong choices.For example,if you saw an object,let's say an electric IBM Selectric typewriter sitting behind a car on a church's parking lot.Would you assume it was being tossed out or that somebody put it there and was planning on putting in their trunk?Would your mind say "I want that.I know it isn't mine but nobody is here and nobody sees me.I can put it in my car.They won't know I took it."or" I wonder who's that is?I hope nobody takes it.Let me see if they come over soon.I think I'll go inside and let somebody know."

three weeks ago,St.Johns Methodist Church was having a white elephant sale and therev were two Selecric typewriters there.They were asking $1 each and I got bith of them.I gave hem $10 and told hem to keep he change.I took one to the car and my friend was still shopping so I placed it right under the rear bumper on the lot.I went to get the other one as well as the keys and,as I was walking back to the car,an hispanic woman and her younger son no older than 12,were taking my typewrier to their car!!!I yelled and told them to put it down or I would call the police.This woman claimed she thought it was being thrown away and totaly denied her thievery.IN FRONT OF HER OWN CHILD!!!! I tried to explain to her that she needed to "Repent and sin no more."and offered to pray with her and she had no interest at all in that.She's not alone.Most people today from their parent's method of either dropping them off all day at a care center or baby sitter neither of which teach any type of morals,have no conscience.They feel no remorse,no guilt.They grow up heartless and feel no pain in hurting others physicaly or emotionaly.I pray for these people.My brother,Mick is one of them.

 

[seeitrun2006]

My Bible tells me to hate NO-ONE!

I was raised Baptist deep in the Bible belt of the South. We were told to believe everything was black and white. I'm 51 years old and can actually remember being told as a child blacks have no rights but whites do. Then desegragation came along in the the late 1960's. The church, my parents, my relatives had us scared to death about going to school with blacks. Went to school the 1st day made freinds with the black children. Those friendships lasted from 7th grade until I graduated from High school. Nothing bad happened!

We are NOT to hate Gay and Lesbians either! But a lot of the churches still today feels Gay people should not be allowed in church. That is why I do not go to those churchs! The Baptist church I attend now as an adult accepts ANYONE who wants to come in and worship no matter who you are, no matter how you dress or look.

The last I want to say is that I have always believed and worshipped a loving God. With being ADHD and Aspergers growing up was difficult as hell! But knowing I could call on God for help, strenth and courage made me the person I am today. Does it make me perfect! Never! Only God is perfect!

 

[rapunzel]

God I love Richard Dawkins!

He is so elegant, factual, passionate and, most importantly, 'HONEST.' Since I am lazy, I let him elucidate my ideas on God and religion. What he has to say is far more interesting and he is much better read than I am.

There are four more parts to this documentary on Youtube. This is the kind of stuff that ought to be shown on prime-time television.

Why is it that we are unable to have the kind of honest, irreverent and critical public discussions that were a staple of the late sixties and seventies? Whatever happened to the Madelaine O'Hairs et al? Does anyone remember her? She was unconventional, interesting and had no qualms about ruffling feathers. Nowadays we get neologisms, pc talk and little else. Why have our intellectuals turned into such milksops?

 

[toggleswitch2]

Religion is man-made.

Has anyone noticed that one's religion tends to dictate burial rites and rituals? Yet those are based on what the social custom was at the time amnd place of the inception of that religion.

I want to be cremated. The maternal unit is having a fit! "WE" don't do that. Listen; if I have to be in the fires fo hell, I'd might as well start right away to get used to it!

What the hell do I need, as a vacant shell of a person, to be in the ground? Throw my ashes into the air and water so I can be everywhere!

Religion can be twisted. Sprituality is beautiful!

 

[andrewinorlando]

Toggles, as always, very eloquently put.......

 

[mattl]

So far...

The impression I get from reading comments is that some need to have a god in their lives and some, like me, don't. For those that feel the need for a god, do you think you would live your life differently if you did not believe? Does your belief affect how you function? Would you steal or kill if you did not believe? Would you be a less kind person?

I guess I base my decisions on "would I want someone to do/say/act x to me". If something would hurt or injure me why would I want to do it to you? I try to be kind, and caring individual. I don't base that decision on what a god might feel toward me but on what my fellow humans feel.

BTW, thanks for keeping this thread civil, and informative!

 

[Unimatic1140]

I guess I base my decisions on "would I want someone to do/say/act x to me"

Matt that is totally cool way of thinking and I couldn't agree with you more.

As most know from reading last weeks post I am a 100% complete and total Atheist. We have a pond across the street that breeds lots of urban wildlife such as frogs, ducks, birds, etc. A few weeks ago, I have no idea how, I found one of those frogs in the basement. I spent over a hour trying to figure out how to gently capture Mr. Frog and take him safely back out to the pond. Of course I could have spent less than 15 seconds with one quick whack of a spare agitator shaft but I would have felt horrible if I had injured him in any way, shape or form or worse. In October when the weather begins to cool I usually see a few mice now and then in the basement, so I only use the most human mice traps that allow me to trap them and also take them out to the pond and let them go safely. The idea of injuring or causing any kind of pain to these innocent animals (or worse) would leave me feeling terribly guilty. Granted when I found some ants in the house this spring there really isn't any way to get rid of them without killing them so sometimes you have to make some exceptions. This feeling doesn't come from a belief in a higher power of any kind, because I have none what so ever. I simply don't believe that we have the right to hurt or kill other humans or animals if it can be avoided because I would want to be treated in the same way.

 

[vacuumfreeeke]

I just wonder if the people who believe now would believe if their parents hadn't taught them to? I can't remember ever meeting a "religious" adult who had parents that weren't that same religion.

I really think if our society was comprised of free thinkers instead of robots, there would be a little less "religion".

I just wonder if people will wake up and start making the right decision for them, instead of doing what mummy and daddy OR society tell them is acceptable.

I saw a great bumper sticker once. It read: "Don't pray in our schools and we won't think in your church!"

 

[maytagbear]

Yes, I grew up in the church,

the same one I attend now, in fact.

In high school, (a very, very dismal time and place) one of the thigns that got me through was our youth group at church.

However, I was not actively involved in the congregation for nearly 20 years. I read the mailers, and would randomly send money (mostly to defray the cost of the mailers).

I was even less than a "C and E" (Christmas and Easter) attender. Some years during that time, I did not go at all.

However, when/if I was asked, I would reply that I was a member.

People from the congregation were unfailingly kind to me when we bumped into each other at the library, or supermarket, or pharmacy--or wherever.

But, it was my choice to go back to the congregation a number of years ago. It was my choice to get involved in committee work, though, at times I question my sanity (joking!).

I get more than affiliation from my involvement.

Yes, I was "a good person" without active involvement, but there's something deeper and richer now.

Plus, being with people I know and like an hour a week, and listening to Bach, Widor, Ralph Vaughn Williams, and sitting down to think...it's pretty good.

Yes, I usually do consider my actions and opinions through a light of what I know as Christian, and try to act accordingly. Am I always successful at it? No. Do I think I am better than those who do not participate/believe? No.

-----------------

I want to say that for those of you who have had bad-to-horrible experiences, I am sincerely sorry that you went through them.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[DADoES]

Religion is a man-made social institution. People are inherently insecure and religion helps them feel good and secure about themselves and their perceived "place" in the universe. It can be a good thing in moderation or a bad thing when taken to extremes.

 

[oldhouseman]

I'm there with Robert and dadoes.

Growing up in the south I never saw anything positive about any church. Religion was all about rules and damnation. I had a supervisor once that was a self proclaimed pentacostal minister. He was a real pain and preached against just about everything. He lined the staff up for a bible lesson every morning. Eventually he got fired and was arrested at a rest stop for trying to pick up an undercover cop. He was a deeply closeted sad case that hid behind religion.

Then there are good and gentle people like Lawrence who find positive experiences in finding a church to attend.

I have moved into the same realm as Robert on the subject.

 

[j2400]

The South is pretty conservative, I've heard

I have never been in the south, but I have heard plenty of stories....

I heard one such story a few months ago. I was talking to someone who went south on a vacation. He went to a church one Sunday. That church was in a transition period--the old minister had left or was about to leave, and they were searching for a new minister. And, with the Sunday bulletin, they had an update about the on-going search, including their official mission statement. Their mission statement suggested that the church was very liberal and progressive. The guy I talked to was amused by this "liberal and progressive" comment. To HIS eyes, the church was conservative and not particularly progressive. He said he saw things there he hadn't seen anywhere else in twenty years or more. Progressive and liberal? By the standards of that area, probably yes. By the standards elsewhere, not a chance.

 

[j2400]

Above, Vacuumfreeeke says, "I can't remember ever meeting a 'religious' adult who had parents that weren't that same religion."

It happens. I've personally known a number of people, and known of more, who have changed religious affiliation. There are any number of reasons for this, of course. But there are those cases when someone reaches a point where he or she cannot go on with the old religion. It no longer "works" for them.

It's undeniable, however, that many people plod along, either in the path set by the parents, or the path set by a spouse/significant other. But, that's true of a lot of things beyond religion. A lot of people live in a given place, because that's where they were born and raised. Many people buy the same brand of car that their parents bought. Socrates said the unexamined life is not worth living. Yet, at my more cynical moments (which these days appear to occur 24/7), I'd say the unexamined life is what most people in our society have and want.

 

[vinvac]

I am also a person who had no church affiliation as a child, my parents had no use for the church. I have always known just by looking around me on a daily basis, that there is no way the world in which we see it, could have just happened...

I respect everyone's opinions on this matter. However, I can't beleive some think of it as a social institution...for me it is very personal.. a one on one relationship.

For many, religion is a burden for them because it implies there are guidlelines to follow..rules if you will...but the truth the matter is, all it requires is to truly respect, love and care for those around you, your envirement, the animals that share the wonderful space we call Earth. For those that want to call themselves Christian, Christ for us was always in support, reaching out his hand to the underdogs...the cripple and lame, the poor, those who were different...for me...that is who I am...someone special because I am different.

Morgan