Car Repair Situation

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dirtybuck

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Springfield, MO
OK, as I've stated before, I have a 2002 Chevy Cavalier. It's a 5 speed manual with a 2.2 liter engine. The car is a bit over 10 years old (I bought it brand new) and has roughly 79,050 miles on it.

Up until a few months ago the car has been running fine. With the exception of a new battery every few years, and new tires, rotors and brake linings (replaced in Aug. of 2010), the car has been great. The most major repair I've had to make on it is replacing the water pump when it died in June of '11.

The problem I'm having now has been going on for a few months. The car starts fine and idles OK (tach gauge shows it's just one notch below the 1 mark). However, it seems to be holding back a wee bit in power. Also, when I shift and accelerate, there's a slight hesitation, but it kicks in.

NOW, here's somewhat of the clencher. I noticed during the Summer when the weather was hotter, it seemed to perform a bit better. And even now it has it's moments. Although I know this probably has nothing to do with the problem the "check engine" light goes off and on periodically (but it doesn't flash constantly). I bought a new gas cap, but the light remains on. From what I've been told, this has something to do with emissions and is really no big deal. I've also heard it might be a bad solenoid.

The air and fuel filters were replaced back in March, and the car was tuned-up along with replacing the serpentine belt yesterday. I took it to (GASP!) Walmart earlier this morning to have the fuel injectors cleaned. They ran some compressor machine on it and put in some Valvoline fuel injector cleaner, but these "fixes" really haven't solved the problem.

One of the older mechanics at Walmart told me because of ethanol in the gasoline, it's creating more moisture in the gas tank (?) and I should buy a bottle of Heet to put in with the gas.

I'm taking the car back bright and early on Monday to the mechanic that tuned it. I'd like for either the manager or one of his mechanics to take a ride with me or have them drive the car so they can see what it's doing. However, for now, if anyone has any possible ideas or solutions as to what the problem might be, I'm all eyes. :)

Thanks in advance.
 
I would also suggest

that you do a google search for ethanol free gas stations in your area.  It varies around here but I do try to find ethanol free for my new Buick.  I can tell the difference in the smoothness of the engine.
 
Heet!

I had the same issue with Mama's Buick when we started burning the Ethanol crap. Heet worked a trick. I did try fuel injector cleaner, too, but the results weren't as pronounced as from Heet.
 
I put a can of Heet in each of our cars once per year because you never know how much water/moisture you can pick up out of the tanks at the gas station.

Also did you know that leaving your car overnight with less than a full tank can generate moisture in the tank. This comes from aviation. When you fly general aviation aircraft you ALWAYS fill it up immediately after arrival and putting the aircraft in it's parking space at the airport. If you don't you'll get water in the fuel. This comes from the heating and cooling of the air around the aircraft. In a full tank there is no airspace to heat up or cool so this type of condensation isn't a problem.

Also on airplanes there are valves at the bottom of each tank called a "gascalator". Before you start the aircraft you take a clear plastic tube and drain some fuel from all the gasculators on the aircraft. After each tank you look for a uniform color of fuel (mostly blue). Since water is heavier than avgas if you see blue sitting on top of clear you know you have water in the tank. Then you just drain more fuel until the clear part of the test goes away and you have nothing but blue fluid in the test cylinder. Water and moisture always sink to the bottom of the tank.
 
Hmmmm...

Well, in agreeing with the older mechanic I spoke of earlier, it seems the consensus on here is in favor of me adding Heet to the gas tank and seeing if this will fix the problem.

Tim, you said something about a partially blocked catalytic converter. In a case like this, do they have to replace it entirely or is there a method to where they can remove the clog? For the hell of it, I Googled cc's for my car. In viewing the prices, I had to strap myself down in my desk chair and put a gag in my mouth to keep from screaming.

Whirlcool, I am VERY guilty of my car having less than a full tank of gas (at times, I don't get gas until the "check gages" (I know it's supposed to be "gauges", but that's what the idiot light on my panel says) light comes on. And I usually don't buy a lot when I hit the gas station..maybe just a few bucks or more due to my financial situation (which is about to change to a small extent for the better here soon). If I go with the Heet solution, how much should I use at first and how often will I have to put it in? How long will it take before I notice an improvement?

And Joe, I did a check on ethanol free stations around my area, and there's about 3 of them not too far from where I live.

Keep the ideas and solutions for this problem coming in guys. I want to see what other people have to say. I DO appreciate the comments.
 
Catalitic converters

Yes, they are outrageous to buy now. There has been alot of thefts right off peoples vehicles and car lots. They bring good money used and since they rarely rust out. It would be wise after exhausting the other options to have it checked. I am not sure if they can be unclogged. But my mother had a Dodge and it got so bad that 20-25 was all you could get out of it. That time it did have to be replaced and the difference was night and day. I'd try a container of Heet first.
 
Have no

experience with cars that new, but if it was a 1972, I'd say to check, or ask someone to check the accelerator pump.
This is based on the symptoms you describe in your 3rd paragraph.

HTH
 
A few things from Australian forums for the same engine fami

Try cleaning the 'idle air control valve' and have the 'crankshaft position sensor checked/replaced'

These 2 things appear to be fairly common with the engine and worth investigating.
 
A partially blocked cat would cause a noticeable hit in MPG as well as performance.

Also, the check engine light could have everything to do with the problem and it won't necessarily flash continually. The now stored trouble code in the vehicle ECM must be read by a scan tool. Advance Auto, AutoZone will do this for free. Could be a bad oxygen sensor, MAP sensor, etc. All could cause the symptoms described.

Furthermore, improved performance and MPG is normal in the warmer months.

When troubleshooting always start with the simple stuff first and work from there, don't let mechanics spend your money while they take shots in the dark hoping to hit upon the problem.

In the outside chance it is cat there are ways to confirm first by measuring exhaust back pressure and such.

Try to find an honest mechanic who knows his stuff.
 
No, the air control valve is not the problem. He said the car idles fine and at the correct speed, a faulty IAC typically causes a rough and/or high idle.
 
If you do suspect a partially clogged cat converter, look for a fuel system cleaner. Not only will it clean the injectors, but also the intake valves, piston tops, combustion chambers and even the cat converter. Look for a cleaner that lists everything it cleans. It also doesn't hurt to get out on the highway and hit wide open throttle once in a while. It's usually best to do on a road where highway patrol doesn't usually frequent lol. Opening up the throttle lets the engine blow out a lot of built up crap in the engine and exhaust. The exhaust gas temperature will rise considerably during hard acceleration. The higher temperatures through the cat converter will actually help clean it out and keep it clean. And a long distance road trip helps with that too. I know that's difficult to do right now with gas being as high as it is. But I sometimes notice a difference in the exhaust sound in my cars after even a 90 mile round trip. I don't know if you do make long or even moderate distance trips often, but if you don't, it sometimes helps.
 
HIghway driving & catalytic convertors

This has nothing to do with the OP problem, but it might be of interest, if only for those who enjoy my posts here as a cure for insomnia...

Years back, I had a marginal car (and that's putting it nicely), and I was faced with the Washington Joy of Joys: the emission test. A mechanic gave me his advice which was to drive on the highway many miles and get the engine and emissions system hot. It would have everything working at the best. Then, he warned me NOT to let the car idle at low speeds for any extended period until after I'd gone through the test.

The people at the test station were a little worried by my appearance, since I sat in line with my foot firmly planted on the accelerator. "You know," they said, "your engine must idle at thus and so RPM or less."

"I know. It can do that. But it won't do that until we actually start the test."

The car, despite the fact that it was a rolling wreck with nearly 300,000 miles, passed with numbers that amazed me.
 
Ethanol

Finding non-ethanol gas is something I've considered. I'm told it's still available at limited stations in my area....

My mechanic has told me that he had a huge surge of business thanks to ethanol messing up stuff in cars. Relatively minor, or so I gather, like fuel filters...but many of his customers (including me) feel the best repair is no repair.

He also warned me NOT to let modern gas sit too long. He finds it ages adversely a lot sooner than gas of a few years ago did. This is not a "few days" thing...more like a month or so. So in regular use, it won't be an issue. But if one takes an extended vacation or something, it could become an issue.
 
Have you checked and change your spark plugs and wires .My Honda was doing the exact same thing and I went and bought

N.G.K. Platinum plugs and the wires were Auto Zone brand and my check engine light went off and it runs perfect.Yes running 

this Gas we use today with all this Ethanol in it is not good for car not made for it and only use 100% Gas in your A.T.V.

I learned the hard way bad...
 
Wow! You have a 4 pot cavalier with a stick? I had wanted one of those for milage, but they aren't very common over here.

I would get your codes read for free at auto zone. Wouldn't be surprised if you need an oxygen sensor, and/or plugs and wires. The longer you go with a bad o2 sensor, the more damage you your expensive cat.
 
Ethanol fuel has nothing to do with it.

If you have a problem with water in your fuel system, the ethanol would help rather than hurt compared to straight gasoline, since ethanol can tie up water.

There's a reason your car has an OBD-II port - find an honest mechanic that can read what's happening and go from there.

And if there's someone here that thinks alcohol fuel is automatically bad, I'd like to introduce you to my 1970 Chevy Nova that runs 100% Methanol. 355 cubic inches that makes better than 600 horsepower. And is simple enough to do that I get that much power with a carburetor and conventional distributor. And a 2-speed Powerglide automatic transmission. It runs a consistent 10.40 @ 134 MPH in the 1/4 mile. And there's more power to be had, but we're getting close to the point of having to add a drag chute to it to be legal.
.
 
An Update And...THE VERDICT!

I went to three different garages today to get their take on the problem with the car. It was also driven by a person from each establishment. I said nothing about taking it to a different garage to the others. All of them agreed...IT WAS THE CLUTCH! Turns out the blasted thing is slipping. And although I don't think it makes much of a difference one way or another, this clutch is hydraulic.

The most expensive price quote was from the garage where I had the car tuned-up on Friday (975.00). Lowest quote was from a place that specializes in gears and clutches (778.27). I'll be going with that establishment. All I can say is Thank GOD I was entitled to a back payment from SSI or I would've had to wait to get the car fixed.

I'm leaving it overnight tomorrow so they can get to work on it first thing Wednesday morning.

Again, thank you all for your comments and suggestions. HUGS!!!
 
Bill-- I have a 1994 Geo Prizm (a rebadged Toyota Corolla). It has 254,000 miles on it and I'm still on the original clutch. I figure it's going to give out at any time, and I want to keep this car as my "drive around town car" even when I finally break down and get a new one (probably next summer).

AT ANY RATE...what is the repair that's being made to your clutch? Since the prices you were quoted were under $1,500 I'm guessing it's not an actual clutch replacement.

The Mighty Geo had some hydraulic thing replaced on the clutch a couple of years ago, and the repair for that was only a couple of hundred bucks. (Symptom at the time: The clutch pedal sank to the floor and stayed there.)

Several people have scoffed at my wanting to keep this little old car going, but the engine, etc., all seem to work perfectly. It's not burning oil and except for the obligatory body rust---had I known I'd keep the car for this long, I'd have kept up on body repairs---it still works like a gem. I drive it 75 mph on the highway all the time and it never complains.
 
not to out of line

I did have to have 1 clutch replaced in a toyota some years back. They originally told me it was going to be about $900. When i pick up the truck, it was only $600. Your prices dont seem out of line from my brief experience.
 
I was completely under the impression it was going to be a totally new clutch.

Here's the description from both places that's on the repair sheet:

(place where I took the car to have it tuned up)
Replace clutch disc (NOTE:To R&R flywheel (?) add
new clutch kit
resurface flywheel

(place where I'm taking it to be repaired)
replace clutch assembly
replace flywheel
 
Okay, so what was described as hesitation was actually the clutch slipping. The diffference is the engine will rev but the car will not move as it should, same with an auto trans on it's last legs. Takes a trained ear to notice the difference.

Oh well, that can happen with internet diagnosis.

I'd still request them to look into the check engine light, that could be another issue getting ready to cause a problem. may be cheaper to have them fix everything at the same time.

Also, ask if they offer a discount for paying cash, some independent shops do.
 
"Clutch Assembly" in my mind should include: Clutch disc and presssure plate.

"Replaced" means new, but the "new" part could be a rebuilt item, you'll have to ask.

Flywheels can be new or resurfaced. Perhaps this particular shop prefers a new flywheel on this vehicle for warranty or other reasons.

"Clutch kit" is vague, could be the same as a clutch assembly: disc and pressure plate. Again, always ask, never assume.
 
Odd as it may seem, check engine light is now OFF!

Now then...get this. For the sheer hell of it, I decided to call the dealership (Pinegar Chevrolet in Republic MO for those who might want to check it out) where I bought the car 10 years ago. I asked what the price would be to fix it. Service tech gave me some numbers, and I grew somewhat despondent over his answers. I asked him if I brought the car in for an oil change if they could look at it then, and they said there still might be a small charge.

BUT...when I told him I had an estimate and price from the other place I was planning on taking it to, he told me that they would either MEET THEIR PRICE OR BEAT IT! All I have to do is bring the paper with me with the price. Astonishment set in. I've NEVER had any bad service from this dealership, and my oil change price for as long as I own the car will ALWAYS be 11.95. To me, it's worth the drive. I've also been a very good customer with them.

So, I've pretty much decided I'm going to take the car there tomorrow to get it fixed. I have to be there at 8:30. IN addition, they're going to give me A LOANER CAR FREE OF CHARGE!

I am, however, going to ask questions, and if I get an answer I don't like or care for, I'll get back in the car and take it to the other place instead.

One thing I did notice on that quote. There was a hand-written ESTIMATE ONLY on it. I called the guy up at that place and asked if that was pretty much a firm price on a repair of this nature. He said yes, unless they had to replace one of the seals, which seemed very unlikely.

So am I making a mistake on this or should I just take it to the establishment who gave me that price in the first place?
 
Antenna bearing? I thought it was 850.00. Thanks for the heads-up. LOL!

Seriously, this is the only place in the 10 years I've had the car where I take it to have the oil changed. They do a good job in a relatively fair amount of time. They also put air in the tires, do fluid check and all that other good garbage. It keeps me happy.
 
If you found a good dealership that takes care of its customers, by all means use them because they have the experience and resources to keep a Cavalier together. I had a 1991 and finally traded it on a 1998 when it had 140,000 on the clock with nothing but routine maintainance and only its 3rd set of tires. I wished I had either of them now.
 
Bad move taking an out of warranty car to a dealer for service, in my humble opinion. They are notorious for price gouging. The tech is probably going to have to bang the job out as fast as possible, (they work on a flat rate).

The other shop gave an honest and fair estimate, had you gone to the dealer first they probably would quoted a price double that, pocketed the difference, and not felt the least bit bad about it.

Moreover, they don't have any special expertise They mostly work on late models under warranty. When was the last time they put a clutch in a '02 Cavalier? Whereas, the other shop probably does them all the time.

My 2 cents.
 
I diagree Dig. My vehicles have always gone back to the dealership from where they were purchases even after warranty expires. They have always been fair and upfront with any repairs. I never feel i am being gouged or ripped off. They have the correct equipment and experience to repair my vehicles. The also have a vast array of factory info on their computers for older vehicles. My feeling is they made it they service it. They want to stay on your good side also so you may purchase another vehicle from them. I have looked around and the prices the dealer charges are not that far off from what the posted labor rates are in an independent shop. If you have problems after with any repairs you have a chain of command that you can work with to resolve problems. Not so at small private shops. Just my opinion.
Jon
 
Check Engine Light: I bought a new 1982 Cavalier when I graduated from college. It was the first year the Cavalier was on the market and it had some interesting quirks. The "Check Engine" light came on all the time; I'd take it to my local GM dealer and the diagnosis was always different---and inaccurate. After my 10th visit, they just disconnected the light!
 

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