Car Repair Situation

[super32]

not to out of line

I did have to have 1 clutch replaced in a toyota some years back. They originally told me it was going to be about $900. When i pick up the truck, it was only $600. Your prices dont seem out of line from my brief experience.

 

[dirtybuck]

I was completely under the impression it was going to be a totally new clutch.

Here's the description from both places that's on the repair sheet:

(place where I took the car to have it tuned up)
Replace clutch disc (NOTE:To R&R flywheel (?) add
new clutch kit
resurface flywheel

(place where I'm taking it to be repaired)
replace clutch assembly
replace flywheel

 

[DigAPony]

Okay, so what was described as hesitation was actually the clutch slipping. The diffference is the engine will rev but the car will not move as it should, same with an auto trans on it's last legs. Takes a trained ear to notice the difference.

Oh well, that can happen with internet diagnosis.

I'd still request them to look into the check engine light, that could be another issue getting ready to cause a problem. may be cheaper to have them fix everything at the same time.

Also, ask if they offer a discount for paying cash, some independent shops do.

 

[DigAPony]

"Clutch Assembly" in my mind should include: Clutch disc and presssure plate.

"Replaced" means new, but the "new" part could be a rebuilt item, you'll have to ask.

Flywheels can be new or resurfaced. Perhaps this particular shop prefers a new flywheel on this vehicle for warranty or other reasons.

"Clutch kit" is vague, could be the same as a clutch assembly: disc and pressure plate. Again, always ask, never assume.

 

[dirtybuck]

Odd as it may seem, check engine light is now OFF!

Now then...get this. For the sheer hell of it, I decided to call the dealership (Pinegar Chevrolet in Republic MO for those who might want to check it out) where I bought the car 10 years ago. I asked what the price would be to fix it. Service tech gave me some numbers, and I grew somewhat despondent over his answers. I asked him if I brought the car in for an oil change if they could look at it then, and they said there still might be a small charge.

BUT...when I told him I had an estimate and price from the other place I was planning on taking it to, he told me that they would either MEET THEIR PRICE OR BEAT IT! All I have to do is bring the paper with me with the price. Astonishment set in. I've NEVER had any bad service from this dealership, and my oil change price for as long as I own the car will ALWAYS be 11.95. To me, it's worth the drive. I've also been a very good customer with them.

So, I've pretty much decided I'm going to take the car there tomorrow to get it fixed. I have to be there at 8:30. IN addition, they're going to give me A LOANER CAR FREE OF CHARGE!

I am, however, going to ask questions, and if I get an answer I don't like or care for, I'll get back in the car and take it to the other place instead.

One thing I did notice on that quote. There was a hand-written ESTIMATE ONLY on it. I called the guy up at that place and asked if that was pretty much a firm price on a repair of this nature. He said yes, unless they had to replace one of the seals, which seemed very unlikely.

So am I making a mistake on this or should I just take it to the establishment who gave me that price in the first place?

 

[wayupnorth]

Yes, GM dealers are now getting on the competitive bandwagon to meet or beat prices to get your business back and give an advantage with the cheap oil change. Keep your guard up, dont let them get you in for a cheap oil change and tell you your antenna bearing is compromised and needs a $1000 repair.

 

[dirtybuck]

Antenna bearing? I thought it was 850.00. Thanks for the heads-up. LOL!

Seriously, this is the only place in the 10 years I've had the car where I take it to have the oil changed. They do a good job in a relatively fair amount of time. They also put air in the tires, do fluid check and all that other good garbage. It keeps me happy.

 

[wayupnorth]

If you found a good dealership that takes care of its customers, by all means use them because they have the experience and resources to keep a Cavalier together. I had a 1991 and finally traded it on a 1998 when it had 140,000 on the clock with nothing but routine maintainance and only its 3rd set of tires. I wished I had either of them now.

 

[DigAPony]

Bad move taking an out of warranty car to a dealer for service, in my humble opinion. They are notorious for price gouging. The tech is probably going to have to bang the job out as fast as possible, (they work on a flat rate).

The other shop gave an honest and fair estimate, had you gone to the dealer first they probably would quoted a price double that, pocketed the difference, and not felt the least bit bad about it.

Moreover, they don't have any special expertise They mostly work on late models under warranty. When was the last time they put a clutch in a '02 Cavalier? Whereas, the other shop probably does them all the time.

My 2 cents.

 

[retro-man]

I diagree Dig. My vehicles have always gone back to the dealership from where they were purchases even after warranty expires. They have always been fair and upfront with any repairs. I never feel i am being gouged or ripped off. They have the correct equipment and experience to repair my vehicles. The also have a vast array of factory info on their computers for older vehicles. My feeling is they made it they service it. They want to stay on your good side also so you may purchase another vehicle from them. I have looked around and the prices the dealer charges are not that far off from what the posted labor rates are in an independent shop. If you have problems after with any repairs you have a chain of command that you can work with to resolve problems. Not so at small private shops. Just my opinion.
Jon

 

[frigilux]

Check Engine Light: I bought a new 1982 Cavalier when I graduated from college. It was the first year the Cavalier was on the market and it had some interesting quirks. The "Check Engine" light came on all the time; I'd take it to my local GM dealer and the diagnosis was always different---and inaccurate. After my 10th visit, they just disconnected the light!

 

[lordkenmore]

I'm cautious with any shop, regardless of who it is...

I think there are arguments for dealer shops. They have factory official parts and information. And there are, I'm sure, dealers that want complete satisfaction.

Unfortunately, at the same time, there are dealer shops that should be avoided at all costs.

I heard one lovely story about 10 years ago. A man took his truck in for service recall work. He was given a list of "needs to be done at once!" service. He told me that, unknown to the dealer, he'd already had all this done separately. He told them this, and said it was puzzling that they wanted to replace all these things. That was when the "oops, we issued the wrong invoice!" song and dance started...

 

[lordkenmore]

'82 Cavalier

may have had--to be nice--many growing pains. I think I drove that car (but a later year) in driver's training. One of the teachers said it was one of the most troublesome cars they'd had in recent memory. Item #1 went out the first day they had it! And it wasn't the last problem they had. While the car continued running, he said they were looking forward to getting rid of it the next year.

Although from my view, that car was one of the best they had. I liked the way it drove so much better than the Ford or the other Chevrolet. The Ford had the dubious honor of being the only automatic transmission car that has ever stalled on me in a panic stop! (Years later, I had a chance to drive a newer low end Ford, was amazed at how much it had evolved past that one I remembered in driver's training.)

 

[Iowegian]

Meh...

A clutch replacement should include the clutch disc and the throwout bearing at the minimum.

Replacing a pressure plate isn't necessarily required, but is good practice if your budget allows. As long as everything is opened up, the clutch slave cylinder should probably be replaced, too. But if my budget were tight, I'd replace the slave cylinder and leave the pressure plate alone.

The flywheel should be inspected. Sometimes it's a good idea to remove it and have it gently resurfaced. But if you're on a budget, you can use an air grinder and a scotchbrite pad to get any funkosis off it.

It really depends on how much money you think you should put into a 10 year old Cavalier and how long you expect to drive it.

You might have heard the saying, "Nothing runs poorly longer than a GM car." That's not a slam against your car, but you'd be surprised at how long it might run by just replacing the bare minimum parts.

My 2 pesos, and I know how it is to keep a car working, if not at factory-new level.

 

[fester]

North south or east west configuration?

Is the engine is in the front, the gearbox in the middle and the differential out back, like God and Detroit intended? If so, you could easily change the parts in your garage or driveway and blow the savings on cheap beer and cigars. That's what I'd do. A floor jack, a hand full of tools and a buddy to lend a hand and it's a done deal. YMMV.

If it's one of those sideways abominations, all bets are off. I'll NEVER own another of those POS! One was more than enough.

FEster

 

[Iowegian]

@fester:

There aren't a whole lot of cars any more that have a powertrain layout as you describe.

You might be surprised how many inexpensive miles a person can get out of a front wheel-drive car with a transverse-mounted engine.

Usually, it isn't the engine or transaxle that ends up sending those cars to the junkyard - it's collision damage. Asking a pair of inexpensive aftermarket front tires to share the tractive, steering and braking duty all together at the wrong time is a recipe for a bad outcome.

For the same reason there aren't any front wheel drive motorcycles...

 

[hydralique]

I've meddled around with plenty of cars most of my life and really don't think engine and transmission layout has much to do with ease of maintenance, some cars are easy and some are not. One thing about a unit powertrain with engine and transaxle in one place is that you can often get some support on the top of the trans if needed, whereas with a front engine rear drive layout it usually must be done all from below which means lots of upward lifting, OK if the car has a light tranny but not all do.

 

From having perused cheap salvage yards - I love a good junkyard tour - I suspect two things take lots of cars off the road: failed smog checks and bad automatic transmissions. Fixing either one can cost more than the owner of a 15 year old car wants to spend if it isn't in really nice shape to start with. Replacing a clutch isn't fun, but at least you can baby a slipping clutch for awhile. Automatics often just quit going either forward or reverse, or sometimes both. A friend of mine who owned a roofing company once had a salesman with a Toyota pickup. Nice shape but lots of miles and a bad reverse. The truck's owner was too cheap to fix it and so drove for at least a year making sure to always parallel park in front of a house and never, ever in the driveway!

 

 

[fester]

sideways motor much bad medicine !!

By all means, if you can get it done for under a grand and the car is worth it, go for it...and be wiser next time you shop for wheels! LOL! Granted, the FWD clutch cars are far easier to deal with than a slushbox, but still a PITA. I scrapped a great running Northstar Caddy because it cost more to rebuild the auto transaxle than the car was worth. You have to hang the motor, split the motor and trans and drop the whole lower assembly. That's suspension and all. Then strip away all the running gear before you can even get to the trans. Manuals don't require as much disassembly.

BTW, the 3500 clams needed to repair my Caddy's transaxle, an inherently bad idea, will go toward building a proper automobile. Got my eye on a shoebox Ford for $2000.00 and I have a mouse motor and a 700-R4 under the carport already. The car already has a 9 inch out back. That should get me back into the grace and light of Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration and the four saints of internal combustion. Never again shall I stray.

FEster

 

[hydralique]

Sounds like fun, though you'd better save some of that money for the gas pump, tuned small blocks do love gas and lots of it. Back in the '90s my sister had a '66 Corvette. It was a low option car: 327-300, four speed, AM/FM radio and power antenna, not even power brakes and no A/C. It had a broken odometer - she bought it that way - so fuel mileage couldn't be checked but we all knew it was pretty bad. Once I drove it from Dallas to Waco, the trip was almost exactly 100 miles so I measured how much gas it used just out of curiosity. It sucked up nine gallons in that hundred miles, for 11 mpg! Of course it was nice weather, the top was down and I wasn't driving for economy . I suspect the newer fuel injected small blocks are better, it would be hard to be worse! 

 

[Iowegian]

Yep, and the shame of it is that automatic transmissions aren't really that hard to fix. Anyone with modest wrenching ability can do it with a little guidance and a couple of specialized tools.

My drag car has a trans brake, which lets me rev the motor up in gear, but doesn't let the car move across the staging beam until I let go of the button on the shifter.

And a trans brake just consists of a simple solenoid tapped into the valve body that short-circuits a fluid pathway and basically puts the transmission into low and reverse at the same time...