No, the report is in German... I updated (deleted) the "hide my e-mail address" option.
Cascade phosphate free is getting TERRIBLE reviews by customers!
- Thread starter mark_wpduet
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mark_wpduet
Well-known member
My state has not instituted a ban of phosphates yet; everywhere I have been, I've checked (out of curiosity) and Finish, Cascade, store brand, and Value brand powders, tabs, gels, pacs all are phosphate free. I haven't been to Big Lots.
The Shelf life for Cascade institutional powder *in my case* is 3 years and counting. A box I had was stored in my laundry room that is only exposed to heat or a/c if I keep the laundry room door open, which often I don't. In the summer it can get HOT in there and COLD in the winter if I leave the door closed. I would NOT think those would be optimal conditions for an opened box of Cascade powder. I wasn't really storing it, it was a half used box I forgot ALL about and it works GREAT still.
The Shelf life for Cascade institutional powder *in my case* is 3 years and counting. A box I had was stored in my laundry room that is only exposed to heat or a/c if I keep the laundry room door open, which often I don't. In the summer it can get HOT in there and COLD in the winter if I leave the door closed. I would NOT think those would be optimal conditions for an opened box of Cascade powder. I wasn't really storing it, it was a half used box I forgot ALL about and it works GREAT still.
I think the problem with storing dishwasher detergent is that it contains salts, which absorb moisture from the air, which causes it to clump together.
This used to be a problem, I recall, many years ago if I didn't use up a box of dishwasher detergent powder relatively quickly. It seems to be less of a problem now, so my guess is that at least Cascade is adding some sort of anti-clumping agent to its powder.
Mostly I've been hoarding the Action Pacs, but recently I've been adding vintage Cascade powder to the stash when I can find it. The boxes have a copyright of 2008, so they've been sitting on store shelves for awhile. To date, they all appear to be clump-free.
This used to be a problem, I recall, many years ago if I didn't use up a box of dishwasher detergent powder relatively quickly. It seems to be less of a problem now, so my guess is that at least Cascade is adding some sort of anti-clumping agent to its powder.
Mostly I've been hoarding the Action Pacs, but recently I've been adding vintage Cascade powder to the stash when I can find it. The boxes have a copyright of 2008, so they've been sitting on store shelves for awhile. To date, they all appear to be clump-free.
launderess
Well-known member
@ Sudsmaster
States didn't demand dishwasher products remove phosphates, reather it was the reaction of P&G and other makers of said products to what they saw coming down the pike.
According to the New York State bill (see link posted elsewhere on this forum), at the time the state banned phosphates for home laundry products, automatic dishwashers escaped such action because in part so few homes had them back then. However today automatic dishwashers aren't really a "luxury" or high end item, and most homes have them, this has driven up the use of detergents.
Like California, there are a few states with large enough consmer populations that when one acts, sooner or later it trickles down. Besides the original other sixteen states that have banned phosphates in dw detergent, NY has joined and NJ is close to having it's name added as well.
Years ago detergent makers would have said "fine", we will product products for different regions and that will be that. However the nature of the business has changed, with manufacturing now concentrated in several or just a few plants, who in turn pump out proudcts for the entire country, if not North America.
Time will tell if P&G has stopped producing phosphate versions of all domestic dishwasher detergents. If the supply of same dries up even in non-banned areas as excess supply is absorbed (ok, hoarded, *LOL*), and not replaced, there will be our answer.
Comparing Germany to the United States isn't fair. IIRC, one body controls what can and cannot go into products in the former, whereas the later has fifty sovereign states,free to make their own decisions in this matter.
Know we have gone toe to toe on this before, but methinks part of this push to get shot of phosphates is the federal government leaning on states and local areas to "clean up" their drinking water supplies and waterways. New York City narrowly escaped having to build new water treatment plants (at a cost of many millions), by agreeing to certain federal requests.
It is perfectly possible to filter out more phosphates than most local treatment plants do now, but that comes at a cost of building new or retro-fitting existing plants. Most state and local governments barely have funds for road infrastructure projects, so you can imagine the howls of protest about anything else.
States didn't demand dishwasher products remove phosphates, reather it was the reaction of P&G and other makers of said products to what they saw coming down the pike.
According to the New York State bill (see link posted elsewhere on this forum), at the time the state banned phosphates for home laundry products, automatic dishwashers escaped such action because in part so few homes had them back then. However today automatic dishwashers aren't really a "luxury" or high end item, and most homes have them, this has driven up the use of detergents.
Like California, there are a few states with large enough consmer populations that when one acts, sooner or later it trickles down. Besides the original other sixteen states that have banned phosphates in dw detergent, NY has joined and NJ is close to having it's name added as well.
Years ago detergent makers would have said "fine", we will product products for different regions and that will be that. However the nature of the business has changed, with manufacturing now concentrated in several or just a few plants, who in turn pump out proudcts for the entire country, if not North America.
Time will tell if P&G has stopped producing phosphate versions of all domestic dishwasher detergents. If the supply of same dries up even in non-banned areas as excess supply is absorbed (ok, hoarded, *LOL*), and not replaced, there will be our answer.
Comparing Germany to the United States isn't fair. IIRC, one body controls what can and cannot go into products in the former, whereas the later has fifty sovereign states,free to make their own decisions in this matter.
Know we have gone toe to toe on this before, but methinks part of this push to get shot of phosphates is the federal government leaning on states and local areas to "clean up" their drinking water supplies and waterways. New York City narrowly escaped having to build new water treatment plants (at a cost of many millions), by agreeing to certain federal requests.
It is perfectly possible to filter out more phosphates than most local treatment plants do now, but that comes at a cost of building new or retro-fitting existing plants. Most state and local governments barely have funds for road infrastructure projects, so you can imagine the howls of protest about anything else.
The 16 state ban went into effect around July 1 of 2010. The members of the American Detergent Manufacturers Association (or whatever they call themselves) voted en masse to remove phosphates from all their dw detergent products regardless of where they are being sold. This was a purely defensive move - it protected them from engaging in a formula battle between themselves in states where phosphates are not banned, like California.
But I'm hoping it will backfire on them big time.
But I'm hoping it will backfire on them big time.
launderess
Well-known member
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Interesting article, Launderess!
What scared me about it was the talk of chemical companies doing their mad scientist act. While it's entirely possible they may find something that will be absolutely perfect, so perfect everyone hoarding Cascade with phosphates or STTP (naming no names to protect the guilty!) will toss the old detergent or STTP out.
It is also entirely possible that the new chemical will have its unique problems in time. Possibly so severe that they make environmentalists pine for the days of phosphates.
What scared me about it was the talk of chemical companies doing their mad scientist act. While it's entirely possible they may find something that will be absolutely perfect, so perfect everyone hoarding Cascade with phosphates or STTP (naming no names to protect the guilty!) will toss the old detergent or STTP out.
It is also entirely possible that the new chemical will have its unique problems in time. Possibly so severe that they make environmentalists pine for the days of phosphates.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I thought the same thing. How do they know what kind of environmental impact this new chemical will have? They don't.
i went looking in the supermarket the other day for something with phosphates in the dishwasher detergent. I asked one of the stock clerks about it and he said they were asked about 2 or 3 months ago to remove any products that had this. So none to be found here in nh either. I went to bj's yesterday and bought a box of cascade shine shield formula with dawn in it. Will give it a try and see how it works.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
I scored
Two more packages of Orange sented Cascade W/Dawn 8.0% Phosphage last night at Dillon's. They were hidden behind the light green packages. They appeared to have had more, but I had to pay attention to my food budget. You can't have the means to wash your dirty plates and no food to put on them.
I did have a $1 off coupon.
Two more packages of Orange sented Cascade W/Dawn 8.0% Phosphage last night at Dillon's. They were hidden behind the light green packages. They appeared to have had more, but I had to pay attention to my food budget. You can't have the means to wash your dirty plates and no food to put on them.
I did have a $1 off coupon.
I have been using Ecover dishwasher tablets for the last few months in our Bosch and I have to say that the results are fine. I have had no issues with them whatsoever.
The only thing I would say is that their rinse aid isn't great. So, I continue to use Finish Rinseaid.
The results are perfect and I have had no issues with egg or anything else being left on dishes.
Maybe the Bosch dishwasher is just really good, but all-in-all I can't say that I've missed phosphates!
The only thing I would say is that their rinse aid isn't great. So, I continue to use Finish Rinseaid.
The results are perfect and I have had no issues with egg or anything else being left on dishes.
Maybe the Bosch dishwasher is just really good, but all-in-all I can't say that I've missed phosphates!
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Your Bosch machine may be good
because it already has a long wash time to compensate for the lack of NA3PO4.
What is your water hardness like? We have from 11 to 15 grains of hardness in our municipal water depending upon if the source is resivour or auquis beds. If you don't have a softner, you need phosphates.
because it already has a long wash time to compensate for the lack of NA3PO4.
What is your water hardness like? We have from 11 to 15 grains of hardness in our municipal water depending upon if the source is resivour or auquis beds. If you don't have a softner, you need phosphates.
So I did buy a box of cascade w/dawn shine shield. Tried it on a load last night and everything came out clean and shiny. Maybe this is one that works for me with my water and dishwasher which is a whirlpool quiet partner.
Jon
Jon
And the beat goes on...
In today's visit to Grocery Outlet, I happened to stroll down the cleaning product aisle. What did I find?
An 11.25 box of Cascade "Extra Action", with Dawn and Shine Shield, and no more than 6.4% phosphorus.
Only $6.99, ($.62/lb) which means it's even cheaper than the last batch of similar Cascade (6.4% P) of 6.25 lbs @ 4.99 ($.80/lb).
So of course I couldn't resist, and picked up two boxes. The only drawback is that these are heavy mothers, and the little woven plastic handles in the tops don't hold the weight for more than about 10 paces. So just be forewarned. I managed to drop both boxes in my driveway because the handles gave way, but there was no loss of product and the boxes are still well sealed.
I might get out the Gorilla Glue and re-glue the handles (they give at one side because the adhesive fails) just for great ease of use in the kitchen.
And so it goes. This phosphate ban is turning into a bargain bonanza for those who want to stock up on the now-obsolete phosphated products.
In today's visit to Grocery Outlet, I happened to stroll down the cleaning product aisle. What did I find?
An 11.25 box of Cascade "Extra Action", with Dawn and Shine Shield, and no more than 6.4% phosphorus.
Only $6.99, ($.62/lb) which means it's even cheaper than the last batch of similar Cascade (6.4% P) of 6.25 lbs @ 4.99 ($.80/lb).
So of course I couldn't resist, and picked up two boxes. The only drawback is that these are heavy mothers, and the little woven plastic handles in the tops don't hold the weight for more than about 10 paces. So just be forewarned. I managed to drop both boxes in my driveway because the handles gave way, but there was no loss of product and the boxes are still well sealed.
I might get out the Gorilla Glue and re-glue the handles (they give at one side because the adhesive fails) just for great ease of use in the kitchen.
And so it goes. This phosphate ban is turning into a bargain bonanza for those who want to stock up on the now-obsolete phosphated products.
launderess
Well-known member
Score!
Ok, I'm good now for awhile.
Just came in from the supermarket (had only stopped in for coffee beans) and spied several boxes of Cascade "Complete" with 5.5% phosphates. Purchased six boxes (all as one could manage, darn things are big and heavy), at full retail price, but at least won't have to worry about shipping.
Don't know where am going to store this new stash, but think will try some sort of plastic wrapping to extend the freshness.
Ok, I'm good now for awhile.
Just came in from the supermarket (had only stopped in for coffee beans) and spied several boxes of Cascade "Complete" with 5.5% phosphates. Purchased six boxes (all as one could manage, darn things are big and heavy), at full retail price, but at least won't have to worry about shipping.
Don't know where am going to store this new stash, but think will try some sort of plastic wrapping to extend the freshness.
Don't know where am going to store this new stash
Under the bed?
Inside hollowed out Hummel figurines?
Ballast for table lamps?
Create a room divider out of colorful metallic green boxes of your favorite phosphated Cascade powder?
Moisten lightly with water, stuff into silicone rubber mold, and put resultant bust of Dame Edna on display in your foyer?
Mold into bricks and use to construct a faux fireplace that cleans as it burns?
Mix with water into a lumpy slurry and use to create that nostalgic 70's "popcorn ceiling" effect?
Use boxes to create a podium from which you can lecture your guests on the finer points of French laundering?
Under the bed?
Inside hollowed out Hummel figurines?
Ballast for table lamps?
Create a room divider out of colorful metallic green boxes of your favorite phosphated Cascade powder?
Moisten lightly with water, stuff into silicone rubber mold, and put resultant bust of Dame Edna on display in your foyer?
Mold into bricks and use to construct a faux fireplace that cleans as it burns?
Mix with water into a lumpy slurry and use to create that nostalgic 70's "popcorn ceiling" effect?
Use boxes to create a podium from which you can lecture your guests on the finer points of French laundering?
