Chlorinated Dishwashing Detergent Today?

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washer111

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Trying to determine the usefulness of chlorinated automatic dishwashing detergent in today's world with modern dishwashers and the longer cycles they come with. 

Is chlorinated detergent still an option today? I understand it is highly effective at removing tea/coffee stains along with tomatoe stains and anything that could "hurt" plastic dishwasher tubs. But I'm more concerned about other daily soils (especially Protein!).

 

Main reason for asking is I am *considering* getting some of that "Chlorinated Hytron" and would like to know its effectiveness beforehand. Water in the house where the dishwasher is (is) soft. Detergent mainly to keep the DishDrawer tub and our numerous plastic boxes and the like stain free. Many of them are turning RED from spaghetti sauce and other (red) sauces!

Is there any difference between the Phosphate and Phosphate-Free versions of the detergent? I checked the data sheet available online and Phosphate content is <0.5% The Finish detergent we use currently appears to have ">30%" Phosphate according to the MSDS online (packing has no mentions of Phosphate free/laden).

 

All help appreciated!
 
IMHO

I think that phosphate and chlorine free dishwasher tablets are a lot weaker than the ones who have that in them. The phosphate free tablets leave an unpleasant white residue on the dishes which I believe is limescale or chalk. They do not clean well in general and I speak of the usage in Euro dishwashers which are naturally a bit more powerful than their US or Aussie counterparts.
 
Just buy Gel...

Pretty much any Gel based automatic dishwashing detergent, is Chlorine Based, and will give you the chlorine you want. Being as though, your in Australia, more then likely, you'll have access to Phosphate Laden versions, vs our Phosphate Free crap we can only buy here.

If your not a Gel person, try looking at Store Brand Powders, or Cheaper Brands. I'd assume a decent bit of them are still Chlorine Based, too.
 
Thanks!

Many thanks for your replies. As our government hasn't quite gotten around to "Phosphate Free" BS, we've been okay. Having tried one of the leading powders, there wasn't much to complain of, except the little rinse-aid bits that have stained the filters and sump area of the Dish-Drawer.

 

Whilst one is apparently "not supposed" to use gels in the DishDrawer according to the user-guide, I don't really think it is an issue, unless those detergents will turn into some sort of "fun-fair bubble bath" during a normal cycle! I'll have to give it a try - although I admit our choice in my locale is rather, limited to say the least. We have the Morning Fresh Gel in the "Eco" pouch (Phosphate Free) and in the squeeze bottle (Green and Purple), also phosphate free.  

I'll check the MSDS online and see if there is anything that might be helpful for me. 
 
Finish Gel Yellow version in Italy do contain chlorine  bleach and phosphates up to 30%... and a few other powders (all with STPP)...Fnish powder have phosphates but no chlorine.
*BUT*
Then, if the american  Institutional Cascade is  really like the "old"  REAL Cascade as they say, then it should contain  chlorine bleach also,  it  of course includes PHOSPHATES!!!
I do not know elsewhere......I think you might have to look into institutional stuff also.......

[this post was last edited: 8/26/2013-17:47]
 
Interesting

It appears my detergent already contains Bleach, albeit the oxygen type. 

 


 

Sodium Percarbonate:

en.wikipedia.org

Bleach - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

 

The one we're looking for *appears* to be Sodium Perborate, if Wikipedia is correct. 

 

And the "Morning Fresh" powder appears to have Enzymes, Peroxide and Sodium Caronbate... That seems counter-intuitive, unless we're talking Oxy Bleach...

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Oxygen stuff  as perborate are bleachng agents, perborate also function as an alkali creating basic conditions,  but oxy stuff are anyway different than chlorine bleaching agents.....and chlorine detergents does not have enzymes.
In  dish-care-washing Oxygen bleaches if in right concentration and strongness (so using a well balanced detergent) can do a paragonable job as chlorine bleach,  consider the last one can be brought in powder and if you consider the  volume that perborate takes and the one the the chlorine powder takes, the chlorine powder  would  in  just a little more than 1/3 of those 3/3 of volume that perborate requires, do the same job, (you've to consider the fact that detergents containing chlorine often contains oxy bleaching also along), but, I could personally experience and heard that sometimes a bad stained yellowed tupperware, for example: An old  yellowed one where you  stored  glazed carrots for long time may still present a yellow/orange patina, ...as  for those VTG dishes (that I forgot the name of the material now) that  would absorbe food stains and particular food pigments such as beetroots, tomato sauce, gravy etc... so with some not so well balanced non-chlorinated powders, when most of the daily loads may get  fairly clean with the usual amount of product, you'd have to increase the dose of your oxygen based bleaching agent detergent for these others kinds of items, and, in case oxy bleaching agents are not brought in a fair percentage or in conditons  to act  well (like in case of premeasured tabs, or not much concentrated  or bad balanced powders * an ex: too many fillers* or about conditions: low temp washings, where oxygen stuff as percarbonate can't just give their best), you may possibly not get the same result as with a chlorinated, ( so in case of a bad balanced powder  would result in loosing a considerable quantity of surfactans and product just to increase qty of bleaching agents to get an higher bleaching action capable to get rid of such stains)....while usually with "chlorinated" detergents (that are generally considered as per their conformation to give a  more effective *in most washing conditons* bleaching action thanks to the presence of  chlorine, and also oxy stuff along) are able to prevent it to happen, thus cleaning whenever such conditions occurs....

[this post was last edited: 8/26/2013-19:27]
 
Well I am in the USA and where I live I cannot go to a store and buy DW detergent with phosphates or chlorine bleach. oxygen bleach yes.

I really think phosphates are better than without because I still have some old detergent containing it. When I run my DW with a detergent containing phosphates the soil sensor seems to shorten the cycle much more even with heavy soil than with the detergent without phosphates which tells me that the phosphate might be cleaning at least faster than detergent without.

Chlorine: Chlorine bleach and enzymes don't work well with each other because the bleach kills the enzymes. I have both and think that the enzymes give better performance than chlorine
 
 

If you want I can always ship you some Finish+enzyme+phosphates+perborate from Italy! 
smiley-laughing.gif
 
The Chemical in Question

It appears the chlorine used in chlorinated detergents is Sodium Dichloro-S-Triazinetrione dihydrate.

Googled the MSDS for chlorinated Hytron and got my answer. Now to just eBay some Cascade with bleach!
 
Usually Insitutional and or Commercial Dishwasher Detergents

Often contain chlorine for both cleaning and sanitizing purposes.

Chlorine bleach is aggressive to protein such as eggs which is another reason why automatic dw detergents contain the stuff. It also explains why one shouldn't use the substance on wool or silk.
 
get tomatoe stains of PLASTIC !!

You might try this, it's an old Tupperware hint.
Set the item out on a picnic table or patio and let the sun bleach it. I have seen it work on Tupperware, but it may be a different type of plastic. Worth a try.
 

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