Coil element temperature limiting

[deltablu]

Re: #16

The reason that I started this whole thread is because we've been experimenting with the new ranges and are totally seeing problems. We have two primary brands of coil element ranges that we sell. I'm not going to name the brands, but someone paying attention could probably figure out which ones I'm talking about.

Both ranges used the same pot and amount of water: A stainless steel stock pot with 1 1/4 gallons of water at tap temperature to start.

Range number one with the burner that cycles the complete element with the limiter took 50 (yes 50) minutes to get to a boil and it was not a rolling boil that I would dump pasta into. Using that same stove, we installed the older non-limiting burner in the same receptacle and replicated the weak boil in 17 minutes.

Range number two has a burner design that cycles one coil and leaves one on even when the limiter cycles. The same experiment with this range produced a similar weak boil at 25 minutes. At 30 minutes we finally had a boil that a person could do something with.

With regards to limiter temperature, range number two has the limiter temp printed on the burner: 374 degrees F. Range number one does not. I intend to do some checking to determine this temp.

 

[luxflairguy]

It took 50 minutes to get 5 quarts of water to a boil?  Will not buy a new coil top stove!

 

[kb0nes]

If this is true, it is ludicrous. That even makes the typical 10k BTU gas burner look fast.

Why not name the brands? If this really is a thing it should be exposed to the light of day.

 

[deltablu]

We've got a business to run. Chances are low, but I don't want to run the risk of a manufacturer deciding that something on the internet that's negative about them is a good reason to pull a product line. I saw what happened with Lorain.

 

[appnut]

With those pathetic time to boil figures

All the more reason for induction.

Do these limiter designs exist for electric flat-surface radiant stove models?

 

[combo52]

Surface element temperature limiting devices

Hi Ken, the real question when you said it took an incredible 50 minutes to boil a pot of water is what kind of pan you were using ?

 

When using a coil type element to boil water on the high setting less than 10% of the element should turn red-hot [ none would be even better ]

 

It has always been true when using ANY type of electric surface element [ except induction ] you need an almost perfectly flat cooking pan that makes complete contact with the element.

 

Show us pictures of the actual test situation, I am sure that these new element limiters will not affect cooking times except in cases where people are using crappy cook-ware.

 

John L.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Noticed this week we need a new controller or two on the 1985 Hotpoint we have. One burner will boil and boil like nobody's business, but won't simmer. I think even if the controller is $50, it's worth fixing. It seems better built than anything in stores.

 

[deltablu]

Re: #24

I enclosed a pic of the 11" pot that we used. It absolutely is a cheap pot; that was kind of the point. We weren't doing this experiment to find out the best way to boil water. This is more a case of seeing what happens in the real world. If people who were using whatever quality cookware are going to have to buy better products to be able to boil water, that's something we need to know. It's going to be different trying to make these sales and may effect what type of range is sold. Bad pot or not, its telling to me that when the only change made is to switch out a limiter burner to a traditional burner (in the same range) the same amount of water in the same pot goes from 50 to 17 minutes.

I don't doubt your suggestion that a better pot will provide better results. But this appears to be another situation like we've seen many times in recent years in this industry where a product that was capable of doing a thing now has new restrictions to "make" it capable of doing that same thing.

So far, we've only sold two of the new limiter burner ranges. We've had complaints of increased time on both. The first customer ended up getting a full set of traditional burners and threw out the limiters. Mostly we're just looking for anyone else's history with them and changes with how they are sold.

 

[deltablu]

Re: #23

This is information from an AHAM communication provided earlier this year to let us know what is coming:

AHAM and its member companies have proposed to UL and the Canadian Standards Association a test procedure to evaluate sensors and other devices that will prevent cookware from reaching the ignition temperatures associated with common cooking oils. The efforts are focused on revising UL 858 and CSA C22.2 No. 61 to require all coil element cooktops to successfully meet the test. The proposed test procedure initially will apply to electric cooktops, helping to reduce the potential for surface cooking fires. The industry will prioritize standards development for electric coil ranges and cooktops, which represent the majority of cooking-fire-related incidents.

At the same time, product safety experts in AHAM member companies are working together to determine how similar tests and requirements can ultimately be applied to radiant glass ceramic, induction, and gas cooktops and ranges. This overall plan, coupled with enhanced consumer education and awareness activities, are designed to contribute to a significant reduction in the incidence of unattended cooking fires.

 

[combo52]

Uncontrolled Coil Elements

These type of elements are responsible for thousands of house fires every year, better control or temperature limiting are long overdue, this is why these type elements are generally not sold in Europe and many other places around the world.

Hi Ken as a fellow retailer it is our job to advise customers in the proper use of appliances for safety, economy, and long life.

I have been this business for more than 45 years and you just have to advise users that they need proper cook ware, and tell users that the ELEMENT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO GET RED HOT WHEN USED ON HIGH, if it does they are not using the product properly and will get poor life out of the range, it will not perform as intended and it DANGEROUS to them and their home and family.

John L.

 

[norgeway]

yall can have it

I will stick to my 40 50 and 60 year old ranges, I have enough common sense to watch what im cooking, and unless boiling water or browning meat, I rarely ever use high, and then only to start, I want my cookware and stove to last, these people wanting 18,000 buts etc I don't get, I just don't need it, to me that's a waste of heat.Radiantubes and Corox units put out plenty enough heat for me, and I will not use any cookware even if slightly warped, and most of y cookware is 50 plus years old and looks new, I never allow cold water to be poured into a hot pan and never ever ever allow anything but a wooden spoon to be used in stirring.

 

[ea56]

Coincidentally,

yesterday, while I was waiting for my Allergy Shots, one of the other patients waiting was relating her story of how she burnt her kitchen up last week.

Apparently, she was making Tortilla Chips, and she left the pan of oil on her electric stove and went into the other room to watch TV! The next thing she knew her dog was barking and waking her up. The smoke alarm was sounding, but it was the dog that woke her! She said the house was filled with smoke and her electric stove was toast and the kitchen cabinets damaged. I would guess that she was between 70 to 75 years old, certainly old enough to know that you NEVER leave a pan of oil or grease unattended on a live stove burner. She still didn’t seem to grasp this point, even after the near miss with death she just experienced!

We live in a 20 unit townhouse HOA, three buildings, two of them have 6 attached units, our building has 8 attached units. On Academy Awards night in 1997 one of the residents in the first building did this same thing while making french fries, left the oil unattended and the fire destroyed the entire downstairs of his unit, he luckily escaped death. But since he already had COPD, his lungs were severly damaged.

The brain dead negligence of many people sends chills up my spine. So while I’m not crazy about this new safety regulation, perhaps in light of how nonchalant some people are about safety personally, this may be a good idea that will save countless lives.

BTW, don’t flat top electric stoves already have these kinds of limit switches on the burners? I’ve owned two of them in the past and I noticed that the burners would cycle on and off on high while boiling a large pot of water, but even so they were only maybe two mins slower than a coil top in getting 6 to 8 quarts of water to a rolling boil.

Eddie

 

[fan-of-fans]

I think the limiters are on those solid element ranges we used to have here and are used more commonly in other countries. Because they're safer. And I noticed as you did that the radiant ranges cycle on and off too.

I heard similar story to the oil burning. But it was when someone left the stove on during a power outage. Power came back on but no one was there and the kitchen cabinets and stove were ruined from melting pans.