Cold Water Wash
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gusherb
Well-known member
In a situation where I was starting from scratch with the plumbing I would do a tempering valve for the bathrooms and run full temp water to the kitchen and laundry. If one wanted to be even more granular about it one could put a tempering valve on the kitchen faucet and let untempered hot water into the dishwasher.
real1
Active member
These are concepts you can't sell most customers on in the States. Instant hot water to all fixtures, yes. Dishwasher supply is pulled from your hot water supply under the sink, usually. So it would be easy to put a tempering valve on the faucet only. Under-the-sink insta-hot devices are still very popular with their own dedicated spigot.
But your WH in either gas or electric is still cooking all the time @145F as it recycles. Make more sense for the appliance manufacturers to have a preheat setting to conserve energy allowing you to turn down your WH to 125F for bathing and hand washing.
Kevin
But your WH in either gas or electric is still cooking all the time @145F as it recycles. Make more sense for the appliance manufacturers to have a preheat setting to conserve energy allowing you to turn down your WH to 125F for bathing and hand washing.
Kevin
I keep my water heater as high as it will go, water is 155 degrees often. It's a bit cooler when I have not ran the water for a while. But when I wash dishes they flash dry, and if I choose to take a long shower the hot water lasts a LOT longer as I need less of it. Either I have an efficient gas water heater of my gas rate are low, but my summer gas bill with gas dryer, gas cook top , gas grill, gas water heater is $20 ish.
Both my Duets will temper the water, but I have modified the thermistor to allow a bit hotter water. So my Hot and Warm washes are closer to what they used to be with straight hot water. I can't recall the last time I used cold wash, and often I use the Warm/Warm setting on my Duets and get a warm rinse. I cannot comprehend washing in cold water, it make me cringe thinking of all the crud that is left on the clothes and towels.
Both my Duets will temper the water, but I have modified the thermistor to allow a bit hotter water. So my Hot and Warm washes are closer to what they used to be with straight hot water. I can't recall the last time I used cold wash, and often I use the Warm/Warm setting on my Duets and get a warm rinse. I cannot comprehend washing in cold water, it make me cringe thinking of all the crud that is left on the clothes and towels.
I just know I love the scalding hot water at Kevin's house.
I'll have to find a way to discover the temperature his heater is set to. Maybe a little hotter would turn the faucets into spresso makers.... YAY.
Now I just dream about a NON HE showerhead. I always bathe but I use the shower to rinse and I'm tired of showering with a waterpik (not only the brand, my showerhead is ridiculously skimpy and i feel like rinsing my body using an oral irrigator).
Why is it so difficult to have a showerhead that sprays almost like the Bellagio fountain? I don't know you, but i like to shower with water... buckets of water on every drop.
I'll have to find a way to discover the temperature his heater is set to. Maybe a little hotter would turn the faucets into spresso makers.... YAY.
Now I just dream about a NON HE showerhead. I always bathe but I use the shower to rinse and I'm tired of showering with a waterpik (not only the brand, my showerhead is ridiculously skimpy and i feel like rinsing my body using an oral irrigator).
Why is it so difficult to have a showerhead that sprays almost like the Bellagio fountain? I don't know you, but i like to shower with water... buckets of water on every drop.
Just bore out your showerhead with a drill press-did this-MUCH better-you can get a fire hose shower!If the head has inserts-try removing them to increase flow.
Part of the problem with the debate about cold water washing is one's location. If I lived in the deep south, where tap cold temps rarely dip below around 70-75 degrees, then I'd be more inclined to wash more loads in cold water. Glenn and a few others here have mentioned their cold tap temp in the summer can be 85-90 degrees. That's the temp used by CR for detergent tests.
But washing in tap-cold water year-round in Minnesota? That's a different kettle of fish. Temps are well below 50 degrees for months at a time. My experience with Tide ColdWater was that it cleaned pretty well with a minimum temp of 65-70 degrees. The drop in cleaning performance was steep at colder temps, despite Tide's website claiming it cleans in temps down in the 40s. I did not find that to be true at all.
I was excited to have 140-145 degree water entering the Speed Queen top-loader when I moved at the end of July. Unfortunately, reality set in when I realized Persil ProClean 2 in 1 actually cleaned better in warm (which is 110 degrees in my case). Super-hot water kills the enzyme cocktail and decreases detergent efficacy.
This is another reason I loved having a 'profile' wash with the Frigidaire and Maytag front-loaders' Sanitize cycles. Water is warm at the beginning of the wash and the temp gradually increases to 140-150 degrees. The detergent is in its sweet spot for at least a half-hour before the temp rises enough to negate the enzymes.
But washing in tap-cold water year-round in Minnesota? That's a different kettle of fish. Temps are well below 50 degrees for months at a time. My experience with Tide ColdWater was that it cleaned pretty well with a minimum temp of 65-70 degrees. The drop in cleaning performance was steep at colder temps, despite Tide's website claiming it cleans in temps down in the 40s. I did not find that to be true at all.
I was excited to have 140-145 degree water entering the Speed Queen top-loader when I moved at the end of July. Unfortunately, reality set in when I realized Persil ProClean 2 in 1 actually cleaned better in warm (which is 110 degrees in my case). Super-hot water kills the enzyme cocktail and decreases detergent efficacy.
This is another reason I loved having a 'profile' wash with the Frigidaire and Maytag front-loaders' Sanitize cycles. Water is warm at the beginning of the wash and the temp gradually increases to 140-150 degrees. The detergent is in its sweet spot for at least a half-hour before the temp rises enough to negate the enzymes.
ozzie908
Well-known member
Water heaters are less common here now
Since most houses have gas combi boilers that heat hot water as you use it thus saving on having a tank of hot water sitting waiting to be used. Admittedly 99% of UK washing machines are cold fill only due to using so little water it would not purge the pipes before hand so would never reach the machine so no reason to have hot and cold fill, although there are people who have solar panels for hot water and Ebac have brought out a machine with hot and cold fill for that very reason but whether they purge the pipes I don't know so you could have a machine that takes in what is meant to be hot and when it reaches the valves it is too late the machine will heat it up to the correct temp anyway, a problem thats becoming more of an issue is people using low temp all the time and then complaining about smells and mildew but its the same old adage " you can't argue with stupid "
Since most houses have gas combi boilers that heat hot water as you use it thus saving on having a tank of hot water sitting waiting to be used. Admittedly 99% of UK washing machines are cold fill only due to using so little water it would not purge the pipes before hand so would never reach the machine so no reason to have hot and cold fill, although there are people who have solar panels for hot water and Ebac have brought out a machine with hot and cold fill for that very reason but whether they purge the pipes I don't know so you could have a machine that takes in what is meant to be hot and when it reaches the valves it is too late the machine will heat it up to the correct temp anyway, a problem thats becoming more of an issue is people using low temp all the time and then complaining about smells and mildew but its the same old adage " you can't argue with stupid "
I still don't/won't wash in cold even during th3e summer. My plumbing snakes through the foundation and cools off quickly as it traverses through the system.
real1
Active member
Good point about the temp of cold water coming out of the tap. Tap water temps would be substantially high in moderate climates, then northern climates. In a lot of small towns, your water comes from well(s), so it's fairly stable yr around but going through the water system to get to your house changes significantly in the summer versus winter.
Some people can get away with very hot temps from a gas WH, because of the cost factor of natural gas. Propane has a higher BTU content, but it's much more expensive than natural gas.
As often the case, modern detergents are a chemical cocktail tailored to be used with warm water for maximum efficiency. Eugene makes a good argument about breaking down the detergent enzymes in hot water.
Kevin
Some people can get away with very hot temps from a gas WH, because of the cost factor of natural gas. Propane has a higher BTU content, but it's much more expensive than natural gas.
As often the case, modern detergents are a chemical cocktail tailored to be used with warm water for maximum efficiency. Eugene makes a good argument about breaking down the detergent enzymes in hot water.
Kevin
Although I can relate to the outcry about that Cold Water Wash Whirlpool, let`s face it most other current washers sold in the US either have severely dumbed down temperatures or use so little water that hot water quickly becomes what used to be "controlled cold" once it enters the machine no matter what temperature is selected.
This washer is at least honest about what you get and doubtlessly there is a market driven demand for it wheather we like it or not. Guess I won`t have to stress it I`m among those who don`t.
Looks like anyone who wants a "true" temperature selection either has to go for a vintage or for a FL with a heater. Even the current SQ TLs cheat on the warm setting, don`t they ?
I frequently read about enzymes being denatured or killed off by too hot water which is true on one hand but should not be generalized too much.
Each type of enzyme has its own optimal temperature curve where it performs best. Amylase for example performs best in very hot (over 150°F) water whereas proteinase activity peaks out at around 120°F and has only left about 20% activity in 150°F. So it doesn`t mean all enzyme activity is suddenly lost in colder or hotter water it`s just getting impaired accordingly.
This washer is at least honest about what you get and doubtlessly there is a market driven demand for it wheather we like it or not. Guess I won`t have to stress it I`m among those who don`t.
Looks like anyone who wants a "true" temperature selection either has to go for a vintage or for a FL with a heater. Even the current SQ TLs cheat on the warm setting, don`t they ?
I frequently read about enzymes being denatured or killed off by too hot water which is true on one hand but should not be generalized too much.
Each type of enzyme has its own optimal temperature curve where it performs best. Amylase for example performs best in very hot (over 150°F) water whereas proteinase activity peaks out at around 120°F and has only left about 20% activity in 150°F. So it doesn`t mean all enzyme activity is suddenly lost in colder or hotter water it`s just getting impaired accordingly.
norgeway
Well-known member
My Grandmother
Would have had a fit, I remember She had our water heater turned up so the washer had steam billowing up out of it , Until I was a kid,She boiled wash clothes and dish towels in a pot BEFORE She washed them!
Would have had a fit, I remember She had our water heater turned up so the washer had steam billowing up out of it , Until I was a kid,She boiled wash clothes and dish towels in a pot BEFORE She washed them!
I find the ones who wash in COLD water to prevent shrinkage or color loss comical...
and yet they machine dry.....
in a 180 degree dryer...way hotter than most water supplies....
and for items like jeans, the dye transfers to the drum.....
it all seems redundant unless you line dry....
and yet they machine dry.....
in a 180 degree dryer...way hotter than most water supplies....
and for items like jeans, the dye transfers to the drum.....
it all seems redundant unless you line dry....
Houston water
Here in the Houston area, what is stated above is absolutely true. For at least 9 months out of the year my tap water could be considered tepid-to-warm in my home. And, as I have an acre yard, mine is cooler than those whose pipes have less distance to run. Often in the warmer months I only use a tiny amount of hot water for showering. I turn my water heater down in warmer months and just turned it up last week.
I don't know that I've ever washed clothes in cold water in the last 30 years. The only time I use that setting at all is if I forget some clean clothes in the washer; they get really wrinkled, and I'll just run an extra, cold rinse and spin before they dry.
As someone else stated, it's so funny to see be people freaking out about needing to wash with cold water, then they'll toss the stuff in a dryer!
Here in the Houston area, what is stated above is absolutely true. For at least 9 months out of the year my tap water could be considered tepid-to-warm in my home. And, as I have an acre yard, mine is cooler than those whose pipes have less distance to run. Often in the warmer months I only use a tiny amount of hot water for showering. I turn my water heater down in warmer months and just turned it up last week.
I don't know that I've ever washed clothes in cold water in the last 30 years. The only time I use that setting at all is if I forget some clean clothes in the washer; they get really wrinkled, and I'll just run an extra, cold rinse and spin before they dry.
As someone else stated, it's so funny to see be people freaking out about needing to wash with cold water, then they'll toss the stuff in a dryer!
ozzie908
Well-known member
Reply 42
Martin you are so 100% spot on !! I have seen dryers that are blue inside and it never occurred to me it was due to low temp washing that all makes perfect sense.
Austin
Martin you are so 100% spot on !! I have seen dryers that are blue inside and it never occurred to me it was due to low temp washing that all makes perfect sense.
Austin
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