These are 24" models from Arçelik, branded either Beko or Blomberg.
Cold-Water Washer by Whirlpool
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Speaking of dryers, Reviewed also has an article about "The Right To Dry" http://laundry.reviewed.com/news/california-passes-law-to-legalize-use-of-clotheslines
And this one is just awesome: http://dishwashers.reviewed.com/fea...-enacts-rescinds-disposable-plate-law-drought
And this one is just awesome: http://dishwashers.reviewed.com/fea...-enacts-rescinds-disposable-plate-law-drought
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Could someone please explain and/or correct me?
These are the facts/physics as I understand them. They're based on what I learned in classes, employee training when I worked at The Gap and Chess King, reading Consumer Reports back when they supplied technical material, the expertise of fellow AW.org members, and my own experience.
1. To go from a pile of dirty laundry to a pile of clean, dry clothes ready to fold/hang up, most of the ENERGY (not water!) savings comes from higher final spin speeds that allow the dryer to run for shorter times to dry clothes. IIRC, this is more important than everything else combined.
2. Sebum/skin oil does not dissolve below 85-90F... or is it higher?
3. A given detergent (powder or liquid) needs a given temp to dissolve fully into the wash water.
4. I have NEVER gotten olive oil out of clothing in washed in tap cold water. I repeat...NEVER.
5. Most shrinkage of clothing is a result of dryer temps, not wash temps, regardless of how hot the wash water might be.
6. The energy cost of heating water for a hot wash an old fashioned TL is a good bit less than the difference in energy used to dry a load of clothes spun at 1200 as opposed to 700rpm final spin. IIRC, this is true regardless of how the water is heated or whether the dryer is gas or electric.
I have extremely oily skin and sweat like a pig so removal of said oil and sweat is my main concern regarding laundry. Apologies if I'm a bit OCD about it.
Could somebody please tell me what I have wrong or what factors might mitigate any of the above? Have I overlooked any exceptions?
Thanks,
Jim [this post was last edited: 10/23/2015-15:29]
These are the facts/physics as I understand them. They're based on what I learned in classes, employee training when I worked at The Gap and Chess King, reading Consumer Reports back when they supplied technical material, the expertise of fellow AW.org members, and my own experience.
1. To go from a pile of dirty laundry to a pile of clean, dry clothes ready to fold/hang up, most of the ENERGY (not water!) savings comes from higher final spin speeds that allow the dryer to run for shorter times to dry clothes. IIRC, this is more important than everything else combined.
2. Sebum/skin oil does not dissolve below 85-90F... or is it higher?
3. A given detergent (powder or liquid) needs a given temp to dissolve fully into the wash water.
4. I have NEVER gotten olive oil out of clothing in washed in tap cold water. I repeat...NEVER.
5. Most shrinkage of clothing is a result of dryer temps, not wash temps, regardless of how hot the wash water might be.
6. The energy cost of heating water for a hot wash an old fashioned TL is a good bit less than the difference in energy used to dry a load of clothes spun at 1200 as opposed to 700rpm final spin. IIRC, this is true regardless of how the water is heated or whether the dryer is gas or electric.
I have extremely oily skin and sweat like a pig so removal of said oil and sweat is my main concern regarding laundry. Apologies if I'm a bit OCD about it.
Could somebody please tell me what I have wrong or what factors might mitigate any of the above? Have I overlooked any exceptions?
Thanks,
Jim [this post was last edited: 10/23/2015-15:29]
jerrod6
Well-known member
Well with the amount of water this thing uses where is the savings? My water costs more than my electric and this thing is using 26 Gals per cycle.....promoted in CA?
It is warmer in CA than where I live so perhaps CA cold water is higher than 38F in the winter, but I can't see how 45F water or whatever would clean.
This machine is nothing but something WLP wants to get federal tax government credits for.
It is warmer in CA than where I live so perhaps CA cold water is higher than 38F in the winter, but I can't see how 45F water or whatever would clean.
This machine is nothing but something WLP wants to get federal tax government credits for.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Agreed, Jerrod6.
The CA rebate is from Southern California Gas Company so one could make a case that
1. Anything connected with water use is outside of their purview.
2. This washer is a "Good Thing" because users will lower their SCGC bill.
3. As a result of #1 & #2 the fact that it is apparently not water efficient is irrelevant.
However, this case ignores the fact that CA's water situation is (last I heard) rather more dire than their gas situation. Or am I wrong about that?
I can just see the lumpenvolk buying this in droves believing they're doing their bit to help with the drought.
The CA rebate is from Southern California Gas Company so one could make a case that
1. Anything connected with water use is outside of their purview.
2. This washer is a "Good Thing" because users will lower their SCGC bill.
3. As a result of #1 & #2 the fact that it is apparently not water efficient is irrelevant.
However, this case ignores the fact that CA's water situation is (last I heard) rather more dire than their gas situation. Or am I wrong about that?
I can just see the lumpenvolk buying this in droves believing they're doing their bit to help with the drought.
joeypete
Well-known member
Rental Queen!
I'm still convinced this washer was designed strong in favor of being sold to rental properties. It is the lowest price model in the line up...the next one up is identical except it has temp controls. Just like the previous generation Chevy Impala...how many people voluntarily went out to buy one for themselves? Not too many. It was a rental car queen. Don't think you'll see too many people grabbing this machine up either. I bet it will be sold in volume at a discount. Honestly I haven't seen a "new" version of the Admiral or Roper machines either. Seems like Amana (and the BOL Kenmore) is being sold as the cheapo machine. Maybe they are phasing out Admiral and Roper? This could be another option in the cheapo lineup. Just my 2 cents...or 2 more cents I should say :-D
I'm still convinced this washer was designed strong in favor of being sold to rental properties. It is the lowest price model in the line up...the next one up is identical except it has temp controls. Just like the previous generation Chevy Impala...how many people voluntarily went out to buy one for themselves? Not too many. It was a rental car queen. Don't think you'll see too many people grabbing this machine up either. I bet it will be sold in volume at a discount. Honestly I haven't seen a "new" version of the Admiral or Roper machines either. Seems like Amana (and the BOL Kenmore) is being sold as the cheapo machine. Maybe they are phasing out Admiral and Roper? This could be another option in the cheapo lineup. Just my 2 cents...or 2 more cents I should say :-D
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
if i had the choice between an all clod water washer and vin
if i had the choice between an all cold water washe washer and vintage washer i would go vintage with true washe rinse temp because i do use warm water wash and hot water wash depending on whats to wash like
pem press T-shirt warm wash cold rinse
bedding hotwater cold rinse but if i had a warm rinse option for bedding i would set to warm rinse pic is there as an exemple
if i had the choice between an all cold water washe washer and vintage washer i would go vintage with true washe rinse temp because i do use warm water wash and hot water wash depending on whats to wash like
pem press T-shirt warm wash cold rinse
bedding hotwater cold rinse but if i had a warm rinse option for bedding i would set to warm rinse pic is there as an exemple
miele_ge
Well-known member
the Arçelik machine look interesting...
Any one have any first hand knowledge of these? They look like they are 220 Volt so I wonder if they are on a par with the Miele machines.
Now that Miele stopped making 220 volt machines (except for the Little Giant "Spa" machine), I would like to have options for when the 1986 gives up the ghost.
Any one have any first hand knowledge of these? They look like they are 220 Volt so I wonder if they are on a par with the Miele machines.
Now that Miele stopped making 220 volt machines (except for the Little Giant "Spa" machine), I would like to have options for when the 1986 gives up the ghost.
I'd rank Arçelik's build quality below Bosch and certainly below Miele. But they offer a lot of bang for the buck and many people are happy with them.
Related discussion: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?61593
Related discussion: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?61593
So the 549 dollar washer, has just one "hot" wash? I'm sorry at $549 that is no BOL washer. The only way I can see this being a BOL washer is if it actually sold at stores below msrp. Like how I got my first new washer for I think like 449 when GE had it set for 699. Also why did Whirlpool not brand this a roper?
-Andy
-Andy
joeypete
Well-known member
I think Admiral and Roper have gone by the wayside...Home Depot doesn't show any Admiral washers anymore...
arbilab
Well-known member
Lively discussion
Brands? What are those? Those legacy names vendors used to build reputations on? But are now leased by everyone to anyone?
What are reputations? Like, everything bought from Walmart is 2 reputations below the same thing bought anywhere else and nobody seems to care?
Internet told me this was 2015. Not that that's trustworthy by itself but seems corroborated by pgh 1 & 2 and a lot of other stuff. Like a Fudgesicle (tm) has an ingredient list 4 times longer than my Xenolin (tm) skin lotion and 4 times less comprehensible. Something must have changed when nobody was looking.
Above:
Nothing wrong with OCD laundry habits. Name of the game.
Sebum-- the primary laundry contaminant-- is a semisolid wax below 90F and by its nature, hydrophobic. That is to say, if you thought it was insoluble as a liquid it's downright impervious to water as a solid.
Not that it's a crime to misunderstand the physical world, but try this test: Put a cup of Tide in a cup of 70F water. Put a candle in it. Wait a day/week/month/year/decade and see how much of the candle dissolved. Weigh it before/after if you don't believe your eyes.
The French may have a word for what less-than-90F water does to wax but I double-damn guarantee it doesn't translate as "wash" in ANY language.
<90F water can 'wash' dust from drapes. That's really about it. And even that doesn't work if the occupant smokes.
Maybe Whirlfool should relicense the RCA prefix like they did before when RCA was well on its way to irrelevancy as a brand name.
Brands? What are those? Those legacy names vendors used to build reputations on? But are now leased by everyone to anyone?
What are reputations? Like, everything bought from Walmart is 2 reputations below the same thing bought anywhere else and nobody seems to care?
Internet told me this was 2015. Not that that's trustworthy by itself but seems corroborated by pgh 1 & 2 and a lot of other stuff. Like a Fudgesicle (tm) has an ingredient list 4 times longer than my Xenolin (tm) skin lotion and 4 times less comprehensible. Something must have changed when nobody was looking.
Above:
Nothing wrong with OCD laundry habits. Name of the game.
Sebum-- the primary laundry contaminant-- is a semisolid wax below 90F and by its nature, hydrophobic. That is to say, if you thought it was insoluble as a liquid it's downright impervious to water as a solid.
Not that it's a crime to misunderstand the physical world, but try this test: Put a cup of Tide in a cup of 70F water. Put a candle in it. Wait a day/week/month/year/decade and see how much of the candle dissolved. Weigh it before/after if you don't believe your eyes.
The French may have a word for what less-than-90F water does to wax but I double-damn guarantee it doesn't translate as "wash" in ANY language.
<90F water can 'wash' dust from drapes. That's really about it. And even that doesn't work if the occupant smokes.
Maybe Whirlfool should relicense the RCA prefix like they did before when RCA was well on its way to irrelevancy as a brand name.
Wait!
What - are they serious?
What - are they serious?
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
No thanks
Try washing greasy dishes in cold water.
Body oils and all that need hot water. Detergent might help some....but then add scent beads, fabric softener...probably overloading, too much or too little detergent...This will end up smelling like Seinfeld's car.
for this to even remotely work......you would need the absolute perfect conditions...right detergent, never overload, a very small amount of fab softener and at least ONE hot water wash with bleach.
It's bad enough that so many people already don't know how to do laundry....even with a really good machine. Give them this and LOOK OUT!!!!!
Try washing greasy dishes in cold water.
Body oils and all that need hot water. Detergent might help some....but then add scent beads, fabric softener...probably overloading, too much or too little detergent...This will end up smelling like Seinfeld's car.
for this to even remotely work......you would need the absolute perfect conditions...right detergent, never overload, a very small amount of fab softener and at least ONE hot water wash with bleach.
It's bad enough that so many people already don't know how to do laundry....even with a really good machine. Give them this and LOOK OUT!!!!!
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
"Try washing greasy dishes in cold water.
Body oils and all that need hot water."
There's a thread here somewhere discussing the temps needed to wash out skin oil and various other types of oil/grease based stains & dirt, assuming the use of products available in the average supermarket.
IIRC, the consensus was 'the hotter the better' if you just want to throw sweat and oil stained items into the washer and get them clean without any special treatment.
---------------------
To show ridiculous this cold water obsession is getting (otherwise there'd be no need for the product) I saw a commercial the other day, Basically it was:
"Do your clothes come out of the washer not smelling clean? Then just throw our 'XYZ Scent Crystals' into the machine along with your clothes and your problem is solved! Your clothes will smell fresh for days"
Apparently it no longer occurs to most people that if their clothes come out of the washer not smelling clean, then they are in fact not clean. Or at least advertisers think so.....
Body oils and all that need hot water."
There's a thread here somewhere discussing the temps needed to wash out skin oil and various other types of oil/grease based stains & dirt, assuming the use of products available in the average supermarket.
IIRC, the consensus was 'the hotter the better' if you just want to throw sweat and oil stained items into the washer and get them clean without any special treatment.
---------------------
To show ridiculous this cold water obsession is getting (otherwise there'd be no need for the product) I saw a commercial the other day, Basically it was:
"Do your clothes come out of the washer not smelling clean? Then just throw our 'XYZ Scent Crystals' into the machine along with your clothes and your problem is solved! Your clothes will smell fresh for days"
Apparently it no longer occurs to most people that if their clothes come out of the washer not smelling clean, then they are in fact not clean. Or at least advertisers think so.....
It seems like
nothing has changed!
nothing has changed!
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I just realized this thread is several YEARS old
Is this washer still being made? Ultimately they should just build the temperature into the cycles like they did with BOL Kenmores. I like the idea, but to much push on cold and the Heavy duty should really be tap hot.
No worries
This is yet another revived thread by GELaundry4ever
. It's from 2015. They no longer make this washer. No offense or discrimination intended.
This is yet another revived thread by GELaundry4ever
. It's from 2015. They no longer make this washer. No offense or discrimination intended.
Since we are reviving this thread.....
They actually do still make this machine! And the reviews on the website are hysterical! I can nearly smell the state of California from here.
They actually do still make this machine! And the reviews on the website are hysterical! I can nearly smell the state of California from here.
