Cold water washing has arrived

[jetcone]

Stan

that is part of it but if you read up, you will see the "new" surfactants I was talking about that have been built with longer chain fatty acids , the longer  the better in cooler water. So its a combination of both.

I need to order more PH strips to test this new detergent and see where it falls ! 

 

Part 2 coming soon.

 

PeteK so glad you got the coffee out ! 

 

[mrboilwash]

According to the SDS it falls at pH 10.0 - 11.5 in a 10% aqueous solution which means it is just as alkaline or caustic like any other mainstream powder detergent.

BTW wouldn`t a test strip be terribly inaccurate? There are more accurate digital pH meters out there and a look in the MSDS dosn`t cost a cent.[this post was last edited: 5/3/2024-08:30]

 

[jetcone]

Good to know Stefan !

 A starting point.

I push that by testing in actual conditions of dirty clothes in the water, depending on the dirt level ph can fluctuate wildly.

 

With dirty laundry I like to see around 10

 

 

[launderess]

"The experience certainly left me with the impression that coin-laundries were unsanitary places to do my wash. I still believe that."

They are, more so since most owners have cranked down supposedly "hot" water temps.

Starting with surfaces of nearly everything in a laundromat (including handles of washers and dryers), moving onto carts that are used to sort both soiled laundry and for holding wash out of washing machines or dryers....

Then there's fact you don't know who has been do you?

In Europe SQ franchise laundromats are touting ozone technology to cope with germ factor. Haven't seen anything like it in USA however.

https://speedqueenlaundry.scot

LaundryLux by Electrolux has "Sanitizing Rinse" option.

https://laundrylux.com/blog/laundry-how-to-kill-germs-and-bacteria-sanitizing-rinse/

Then you have efforts such as this: https://hollowaystreetlaundromat.com/blog/laundromat-hygiene-and-dangers-of-ignoring

Truth to tell ever since M. Pasteur's discovery of germs there was a war declared by some on sending laundry out. This applied to laundresses right up to industrial "steam" or "power" laundries.

Off bat housewives were warned that to protect all she held near and dear her washing should be done at home. This as opposed to sending it out where it could be mingled with laundry from all sorts of persons.

From about 1920's or so well past 1940's laundries once gave tours so housewives and other customers could satisfy themselves about conditions.

If there was a case of diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough or any other infectious disease on street laundries would refuse to collect. They had to, if Her Indoors got wind otherwise she wouldn't send her washing.



Long story short there are good reasons why so many laundries of old had "sanitary" or some such as their name.

 

[stan]

Those were the days !

She got a doctor to see her on a Saturday at 6:00 pm cuz she was tired!
And he made her a tonic!
I’ll have what she’s havin..
LOL

 

[launderess]

When phosphates were either limited or outright banned laundry detergent makers scrambled to find other alkaline builders. Nothing in whole or part replaces what phosphates do alone, thus usually laundry powder detergents contain a blend.

Use of alkalis for wash day goes back to ancient times when ashes from certain plants or wood was source. Then came silicates (water glass) which made up huge part of Henkel's famous "Persil" formula. PERborate and SILicate, get it? Per-Sil.

Washing soda being on lower end of alkaline pH scale is suited for domestic laundry. It's also relatively inexpensive either used alone (as a booster) or blended into wash powders.

If you look closely many powdered laundry detergents for domestic use do contain other alkalis long used for institutional detergents. Sodium hydroxide (lye), sodium metasilicate and others.

Purpose of alkali are many and simple on laundry day. Raising pH of break/suds water causes textile fibers (natural ones such as cotton and linen) to open up weave of fabric thus releasing soils.

For institutional laundries desired pH range at end of wash bath is between 11-12 pH. Domestic products OTOH usually aim for something slightly lower. One reason for this is "homestyle" washing machines normally are made from softer metals that will be quickly attacked by repeated exposure to high pH.

 

[jetcone]

That is cool tech

Thank you Launderess

famous "Persil" formula. PERborate and SILicate, get it? Per-Sil.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

cold water washer

I thought washers today do cold water washing in theory due to dumbed down temps.

 

[launderess]

Sodium & potassium silicates have it over sodium and potassium carbonates for many reasons when it comes to laundry detergents.

Silicates have slightly higher pH than carbonates but less than sodium hydroxide. In terms of soil suspension and removal properties, wetting, and rinsing silicates beat washing soda.

https://www.texfinity.com/dynmedia/0fff7da2ad3ecf9f3422cf8171c7d8b6

Besides functioning as source or alkali on wash day silicates also work as a builder as well. Silicates are likely closer to one thing out of a box that could replace phosphates as it comes.

Fritz Henkel's first "detergent" Bleich-Soda (bleach soda) made from sodium silicate and calcined (water-free) soda. It promised to whiten and clean linen without harsh bleaching agents (read eau de Javel/chlorine bleach).

https://www.antiquariat-kastanienhof.de/images/product_images/popup_images/s40320_3.jpg

What Henkel got ahold of there was one of first laundry "breaks". Alkaline pH in water of silicate and soda when combined with hot (or boiling water) broke soils and muck from textiles. Via water softening properties soap reside would be leached out of fabrics and settle into water.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/395088641742

This step was important as soap was still queen of wash day. Presoaking or prewashing with an alkaline water bath in addition to above mentioned things also reduced the acidity of textiles (from coming into contact with human bodily fluids) which in turn would make job of subsequent washing with soap easier.

Henkel's later invention "Persil" built upon previous bleach-soda formula in that it contained soap, silicate and perborate. A remarkable combination when used property at high temperatures was more than capable of producing quite clean and white laundry. Most tellingly Persil did not contain soda IIRC.

Henkel loved themselves some silicates because they came out with yet another product based upon them; "Sil".

Sil today is a spot/stain remover, but its original incarnation was perborate bleach and silicates. One took wash that had already been done (usually boiled) using Persil (soap and silicates), then boiled them again in this "bleaching" rinse. Containing more bleach but no soap this treatment would remove stains, treat yellowed fabrics and remove other discolorations that survived the wash.

When using soap for wash day first rinse is usually in hot water or things were boiled, so there you are.

For generations at least in Germany above brought about the Holy Trinity of wash day of Henko, Persil and Sil.



Introduction of Sunil and later Persil 59 put an end to that holy trinity. Once soap was replaced by detergent all that presoaking and boiling afterwards was largely not required.

 

[frigilux]

Tested powdered Tide Professional on a purposely stained kitchen towel, this time using cool water. I paused the washer as it began to drain the wash water—it still drained the rest of the water, but I was able to stick an instant read thermometer into the load and it registered 74 degrees F. As it had just completed a 50 minute wash tumble, I assume the water was at least a few degrees higher earlier in that portion of the cycle.

Interestingly, although it may be hard to discern in the photos, Tide Professional was slightly better at removing the very tough stains in warm water—around 100-105 degrees F.

Several other items in the load had smaller, garden variety stains on them: chocolate syrup & Rao’s marinara on a cotton/poly blend shirt; soy sauce, blood, blue shaving cream and Colgate charcoal toothpaste on kitchen and bath linens. All of those stains were completely removed.

FYI: Cold tap water here—having purged the pipes of the warmer “indoor” water—is currently 57 degrees F. Since the cool water test was not an improvement on the warm water test, I’m not going to bother testing Tide Pro in tap cold.

For this latest—and last—test:
Washer: front-loading Speed Queen model 7009; Normal cycle; max soil level (50 minute wash tumble); cool water setting.
Detergent: 60g powdered Tide Professional detergent.
Kitchen towel was stained, then allowed to dry for 12 hours before laundering.

Photo 1: The “before” towel
Photo 2: After laundering using the cool water setting
Photo 3: After laundering using the warm water setting

 

[jetcone]

@eugene

that is really cool ! 

 

My attempt in cold water,  it was spaghetti sauce as well but was a week old.  This is white linen. Our cold runs about the same as yours.

 

[appnut]

So Jon & Eugene, is the Tide Profssional outperforming the Tide w/Bleach powder, a tie, or the Tide w./Bleach the best? And Eugene you've done so many tests throughout the years.

 

[jetcone]

Tide w/bleach

I have not used Tide w/bleach so I can't answer to that .

 

 

I should look up the formula and compare.

 

 

[maytag85]

Cold water is great if you like itchy clothing, along with smelly machines.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

to maytag85

This is why I can't stand today's washers except Speed Queen Laundry. In addition to forcing cold water washing, they don't fill up completely and the wash action is weak. How else will laundry get clean? This is a big culprit when trying to wash sturdy cottons like t-shirts and jeans.

 

[mysteryclock]

Remarkably, I ordered a box of Tide Professional AND THEN found this thread. It's always nice when the Internets are all thinking the same thing, about the same time.

Rookie question with this: Is there any harm in washing on warm? That is, will I be deactivating or not-optimally-activating whole groups of ingredients by turning up the temps just a bit?

Thanks!

 

[frigilux]

mysteryclock—I found that powdered Tide Professional cleaned stains a little better in warm water compared to washing in cool water. See the photos in Reply 99 above. Tide Pro and Persil Bio—the version made by Unilever in the UK—are my current favorite powdered detergents.

 

[petek]

No it won't. It isn't sold or marketed specifically as a cold water detergent at all. On the front of the box it says something like "the number one commercial stain remover in 1 wash Even in cold water"

 

[mysteryclock]

For reference, I just found the service manual for my washer - GFW450SSM1WW, and it states the following about temps:

* Cold can be tempered by cycling of hot water valve to achieve target temperature of 70°F (21°C).
* Warm can be tempered by cycling of hot and cold valves to achieve target temperature of 86°F (30°C).
* Hot can be tempered by cycling of cold water valve to achieve target temperature of 110°F (43°C).
* Sanitize can be tempered by cycling of cold water valve, or heater operation, to achieve target temperature of 160°F (71°C).

...which reads like what P&G is looking for is actually what GE calls "warm" anyway. Figures.

 

[qsd-dan]

86F is warm and 110F is hot???

 

[mysteryclock]

Yeah, at least knowledge is power here.  

Honestly, though, with both boys now off in college, and only one home for the summer, the overall Cleaning Power Required (so to speak) is generally a lot lower than when they were both here, a lot younger, and we were all camping at least once a month.

 

[maytag85]

I’m pretty sure cats feel the same way when they find out you only wash in cold like in reply #109. Cats like to be extra sure there’s no fleas on their blankets and such.

 

[jetcone]

@dan

HAHAHAHAHA

 

 

[mickeyd]

I drank the Kool-Aid !!!

Who could resist the Mother General of Aworg? Bought Saturdee on Amazon, it arrived yesterday, and I opened it immediately and started a small load of nasty stuff hampered in the kitchen Visimatic. Pete is right:the smell is intense which was surprising since the Amazon ad said unscented. Puzzling. But I like the scent; it's pretty much Tide with Bleach Powder.

The load of sox and towels and Roxy's kerchief were--as my Aunt Helen would say, "filthy, maggotty dirty," and I threw in some dark colored socks to follow Jon Charles' new commandment to wash cold with darks and whites together. I rinsed the load this morning in my Canadian Beatty for Pete and Paul.

So busy training Roxy, I missed this classic wonderful thread last week, but there she is in the last pic--LEASH FREE.

PIX in a moment. The Proof is in the Pudding.

 

[mickeyd]

.

 

[mickeyd]

. just checking the phone because the first version looks so grainy

 

[jetcone]

Mickey!!!

I am glad you drank the Kool-Aid.  After all the testing I just ordered my second box.

 

Mother General is so Proud of you! Those washers are lovely and the cleaning seems stupendous LOL ! Who would have thought COLD would ever come CLEAN ???!!

 

Love that Easy Spiralator in the Beatty !!! 

 

Roxy looks like a DOLL! Congratulations, I am now owned by Pegasus - completely! 

 

 

 

[mickeyd]

What a handsome guy! Artey's looking down smiling at you two, and isn't it nice, for us mid-century men, to know that our new best friends might outlive us or check out when we do. Hallelujah !

"Who would have thought cold would ever come clean." What a great quote--one for the books. Bartlett is envious.

 

[jetcone]

Thank you Mickey

So you wash in the Kenmore, and have the Beatty standing by for the rinse !! COOL!

 

Oh sorry I mean COLD !

 

Peg, she was born a tripod and you'd never know it ! Fast  fast, they named her Pegleg, which when I rescued her I didn't like, and she got out in the backyard one day and flew around the yard! SO I changed her name to Pegasus the Flying Horse !!!

 

 

 

[mickeyd]

CHEESUS

I never noticed, need more glasses. God bless her sweet heart. Dogs are so amazing:THEY never notice a missing leg, going on just as happy as their four-legged friends. Have seen a bunch of youtubings about them. She is really beautiful--love the coat.

Washer stuff in a moment with pix. Thanks for asking, Jon!

1~ In Homage to my beloved aunts Mickey and Margaret who washed in the kitchen, I always have a washer in the kitchen, this season, the 64 Visimatic. Look at Roxy spying, lol.

2~You picked a perfect day to ask; it's really windy today and clothing comes as soft as if Downied, so I really took advantage with the second load in the washing in the Canadian Easy, rinsing in the fabulous Borg Norge.

3~Ahhhh, the wind. I waited for a lull since they were flapping madly and unphotographable.