Color Television: The Way it Was Meant to Be
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classiccaprice
Well-known member
that is awesome! expensive, but awesome!
Wow
This set is in the next town over from me
This set is in the next town over from me
jamman_98
Well-known member
Where's the Peacock?
The following program is brought to you in living color on NBC.
Nice set
joe
jamman_98
The following program is brought to you in living color on NBC.
Nice set
joe
jamman_98
For everyone's viewing pleasure...this is a CBS Color presentation
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Good God!
Those things (CT-100's) are close to the Holy Grail level of scarcity. They did not sell terribly well, due to a very high ($1000) list price, and the screen size, which was quite small (15") by the standards of the black-and-white sets of the time. RCA got cracking, first dropping the price to $495, then increasing the screen size. They went so far as to take back CT-100's (also known as the Merrill model) and exchange them for newer sets at little charge (no charge for VIP customers), making the CT-100 a very rare survival.
My dad was an RCA tech, and we had a Seville 21 set (Model no. 21-CT-661U). This was from the CTC-4 chassis generation, two generations removed from the CTC-2 chassis used for the CT-100. It was a 1955-56 model with a 21-inch screen, a far cry from the 15-inch screen on the CTC-100. We had that set up into the 1970's. Like all '50s colour sets, it required pretty frequent adjustment and service, and had one new picture tube during its life. It was finally given to the local high school as a "project" set.
One of the families near my great-grandmother had a Merrill, which gave up the ghost in the late '60s, when I was in high school. They put "the old clunker" out on the kerb, never guessing how sought-after it would become.
The things we threw away in those days! In '74, I personally helped to drag a 1949 40" Frigidaire range designed by Raymond Loewy out to the kerb from our house. I had not a clue then, not a clue, though I did think it was a shame something so well-made was not considered worth repairing.
Those things (CT-100's) are close to the Holy Grail level of scarcity. They did not sell terribly well, due to a very high ($1000) list price, and the screen size, which was quite small (15") by the standards of the black-and-white sets of the time. RCA got cracking, first dropping the price to $495, then increasing the screen size. They went so far as to take back CT-100's (also known as the Merrill model) and exchange them for newer sets at little charge (no charge for VIP customers), making the CT-100 a very rare survival.
My dad was an RCA tech, and we had a Seville 21 set (Model no. 21-CT-661U). This was from the CTC-4 chassis generation, two generations removed from the CTC-2 chassis used for the CT-100. It was a 1955-56 model with a 21-inch screen, a far cry from the 15-inch screen on the CTC-100. We had that set up into the 1970's. Like all '50s colour sets, it required pretty frequent adjustment and service, and had one new picture tube during its life. It was finally given to the local high school as a "project" set.
One of the families near my great-grandmother had a Merrill, which gave up the ghost in the late '60s, when I was in high school. They put "the old clunker" out on the kerb, never guessing how sought-after it would become.
The things we threw away in those days! In '74, I personally helped to drag a 1949 40" Frigidaire range designed by Raymond Loewy out to the kerb from our house. I had not a clue then, not a clue, though I did think it was a shame something so well-made was not considered worth repairing.
whirlcool
Well-known member
Back in the 50's when you got a color tv is was almost a neighborhood affair! A family down the street from us got on, and once the big RCA COLOR TV box was left at the curb for pickup all the guys on the block wanted to know about it, how it worked, etc?
In about 1956 a neighbor of ours got one. I went over with my dad to look at it. He kept saying how expensive it was and to NOT TOUCH IT at all! The thing I noticed the most was the static between stations was even colored! It was rather strange looking at images in color. I think Howdy Doody was on and it looked quite bizarre in color.
We first got our first set, a Zenith console in about 1962. That was when your appliance stores sold color tv's. They were usually put in a darkened room that was sealed off from the rest of the store. When you opened the door to the color TV room the smell of ozone would almost knock you over!
But even then, people weren't moving en masse towards color. A lot of people waited for the rectangular screens to come out. I believe this happened in 1964 or so. And the networks (which was all we had, how did we manage with only 3 or 4 stations?) only offered "selected" programs in color until about 1966. I think it was in 1967 when the networks went all color.
So I would say it wasn't until 1965 or so that color tv began selling like hotcakes.
And up until the automatic degaussing circuits were common (1963 or so), you couldn't vacuum or use power tools near at set. One of the kids at school was saying that if you hold a magnet to the screen on a color set it would do strange things to the picture. Well, when he did this his parents would have have the service tech come out and degause and realign and set the convergence on the set.
In about 1956 a neighbor of ours got one. I went over with my dad to look at it. He kept saying how expensive it was and to NOT TOUCH IT at all! The thing I noticed the most was the static between stations was even colored! It was rather strange looking at images in color. I think Howdy Doody was on and it looked quite bizarre in color.
We first got our first set, a Zenith console in about 1962. That was when your appliance stores sold color tv's. They were usually put in a darkened room that was sealed off from the rest of the store. When you opened the door to the color TV room the smell of ozone would almost knock you over!
But even then, people weren't moving en masse towards color. A lot of people waited for the rectangular screens to come out. I believe this happened in 1964 or so. And the networks (which was all we had, how did we manage with only 3 or 4 stations?) only offered "selected" programs in color until about 1966. I think it was in 1967 when the networks went all color.
So I would say it wasn't until 1965 or so that color tv began selling like hotcakes.
And up until the automatic degaussing circuits were common (1963 or so), you couldn't vacuum or use power tools near at set. One of the kids at school was saying that if you hold a magnet to the screen on a color set it would do strange things to the picture. Well, when he did this his parents would have have the service tech come out and degause and realign and set the convergence on the set.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
whirlcool:
You're right that the advent of rectangular picture tubes for colour sets had a big influence on sales; that was the big news for '65 models.
But another factor was one that is not well-remembered today - the prosperity of the war years. The Vietnam war was just as unpopular as the Iraq war today, but unlike Iraq, the profits generated by Vietnam-era production of supplies and materiel had a very positive effect on the American economy. In those years, many Americans got their first colour TV, first air-conditioned car, first home air-conditioning, and first dishwasher. Sad that the best times most Americans can remember were fuelled by so much human misery in Vietnam.
If only mankind could find something besides wars to generate so much prosperity!
You're right that the advent of rectangular picture tubes for colour sets had a big influence on sales; that was the big news for '65 models.
But another factor was one that is not well-remembered today - the prosperity of the war years. The Vietnam war was just as unpopular as the Iraq war today, but unlike Iraq, the profits generated by Vietnam-era production of supplies and materiel had a very positive effect on the American economy. In those years, many Americans got their first colour TV, first air-conditioned car, first home air-conditioning, and first dishwasher. Sad that the best times most Americans can remember were fuelled by so much human misery in Vietnam.
If only mankind could find something besides wars to generate so much prosperity!
Yes i remember having an RCA CTC-5 color TV set-had the round jug.the thing worked quite well-and I stored it at a radio station transmitter site until I could move to a house-At that time was living in an apartment and could not keep all of my TV's there.sadly my sets and a freinds that were stored there got stolen when the transmitter was broken into.the perps took everything that wasn't tied down.the building intrusion alarm didn't work-or was disabled-and during a routine site check we found this.Its kinda tragic.We got these sets from scrounging-rescueing from dumpsters and back lots of TV appliace repair places.some of these machines WORK-and they were goin g to the Krusher??glad we could rescue them-but what did the theif do with them?the old set I had was in a nice HEAVY cabinet.Took almost three people to lift it into a van.CTC-5 is what sticks to my mind-it was a large screen "round jug" set-the pix tube looked like it had been rebuilt a few times-spotted two seams on the neck.sort of miss the thing-the picture had "pastel" colors due to the worn phospors on the screen.the chassis on it worked great it was a "back of TV shop" find.It must of been waiting for the Krusher.also had a later Round jug model and a rectangular screen set.(CTC-25)Both of those worked well too.the rectangular one was given to me.also had a couple of BW sets-a Dumont and a Console Philco whose remote still workedand they had great picturs and sound.hope the theif is enjoying my collection!
veg-o-matic
Well-known member
My daily watcher
'64 Zenith. I call her Laura.
veg
'64 Zenith. I call her Laura.
veg
Beautiful set, Veg . . .
I would just love to watch Perry Mason on that set (even though PM is in black & white).
I would just love to watch Perry Mason on that set (even though PM is in black & white).
whirlcool
Well-known member
Here is an interesting question...
I was wondering why up until 1964 or so all color CRTs were rounded? Back in the mid 50's they had rectangular B&W tubes, I wonder why they just didn't start color sets out in that form?
Anyone know the answer?
I was wondering why up until 1964 or so all color CRTs were rounded? Back in the mid 50's they had rectangular B&W tubes, I wonder why they just didn't start color sets out in that form?
Anyone know the answer?
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Whircool- VERY Simplified Explanation
"I wonder why they just didn't start color sets out in that form? Anyone know the answer?"
Whirlcool:
Without getting too technical and involved, it had to do with the way colour images were generated, vs. the way B&W ones were generated.
All CRT televisions work with a picture tube. All picture tubes have an electron gun at the back (in the "neck" of the tube), and phosphors painted on the inside of the tube's "face" (the part of the tube you watch). When electrons from the gun hit the phosphors, they light up, forming the picture you see. But there is one crucial difference between colour and B&W:
B&W tubes have phosphor LINES painted on the inside of the face, and colour tubes have phosphor DOTS painted there. With B&W, each line goes lighter or darker according to the picture info being broadcast to the set, forming the picture. This is easy to do, because lines are continuous(this is highly simplified).
But with colour TV, you can't settle for that, because instead of a phosphor line that is continuous, you have a gazillion little separate dots, EVERY ONE of which must be hit by the electron guns and lighted up, in order to form a picture. There are three phosphor colours- red, yellow and blue-green (cyan), that are used. There is a separate electron gun for each colour phosphor.
Now, since electrons being shot from the guns travel in straight lines, it's easy to see that there is only a narrow angle of travel possible. This is only a minor factor in B&W; it's fairly easy to get the beam into the corners of a rectangular tube. But in colour, you can't easily get the electron beam to travel into corners, and that's what dictated the round colour tubes, because the lack of corners eliminated the problem cheaply and easily. Improvements in the electron gun technology eventually permitted widening the angle, and therefore made getting the electron beam into corners possible.
There is the additional complication of B&W sets having only one electron gun, and colour sets having three, which must work in sync, but that's another story.
Again, this is very simplified, and a visit to Ed Reitan's Colour TV site will help with understanding more about the fabulous NTSC system that has served this nation for 54 years, and which will succumb to politicians' stupidity and corporate greed next February.
Here's a page on B&W TV:
electronics.howstuffworks.com
And here's a link to Ed Reitan's page on colour, which is highly recommended:
"I wonder why they just didn't start color sets out in that form? Anyone know the answer?"
Whirlcool:
Without getting too technical and involved, it had to do with the way colour images were generated, vs. the way B&W ones were generated.
All CRT televisions work with a picture tube. All picture tubes have an electron gun at the back (in the "neck" of the tube), and phosphors painted on the inside of the tube's "face" (the part of the tube you watch). When electrons from the gun hit the phosphors, they light up, forming the picture you see. But there is one crucial difference between colour and B&W:
B&W tubes have phosphor LINES painted on the inside of the face, and colour tubes have phosphor DOTS painted there. With B&W, each line goes lighter or darker according to the picture info being broadcast to the set, forming the picture. This is easy to do, because lines are continuous(this is highly simplified).
But with colour TV, you can't settle for that, because instead of a phosphor line that is continuous, you have a gazillion little separate dots, EVERY ONE of which must be hit by the electron guns and lighted up, in order to form a picture. There are three phosphor colours- red, yellow and blue-green (cyan), that are used. There is a separate electron gun for each colour phosphor.
Now, since electrons being shot from the guns travel in straight lines, it's easy to see that there is only a narrow angle of travel possible. This is only a minor factor in B&W; it's fairly easy to get the beam into the corners of a rectangular tube. But in colour, you can't easily get the electron beam to travel into corners, and that's what dictated the round colour tubes, because the lack of corners eliminated the problem cheaply and easily. Improvements in the electron gun technology eventually permitted widening the angle, and therefore made getting the electron beam into corners possible.
There is the additional complication of B&W sets having only one electron gun, and colour sets having three, which must work in sync, but that's another story.
Again, this is very simplified, and a visit to Ed Reitan's Colour TV site will help with understanding more about the fabulous NTSC system that has served this nation for 54 years, and which will succumb to politicians' stupidity and corporate greed next February.
Here's a page on B&W TV:
How Television Works
Ever wonder how television works? The technology has been around long enough to seem ordinary, but the box that brings TV shows into your home is an amazing device. How is the picture formed? Where does the color come from? Let's find out!
electronics.howstuffworks.com
And here's a link to Ed Reitan's page on colour, which is highly recommended:
Veg, darlin'
Isn't she "The Mighty Laura?"
Love and laughter,
Lawrence/Maytagbear
Isn't she "The Mighty Laura?"
Love and laughter,
Lawrence/Maytagbear
whirlcool
Well-known member
Sandy:
A few years ago I read the history of NTSC on Ed Retian's excellent website. In fact I even have a link to that site on my own homepage!
I still think that picture tubes are amazing technology. I once saw a show about how they mfg. them. I think it's amazing that they work at all!
Anyone remember the "green" and "amber" computer monitors? I imagine those just had a single green gun or a single yellow gun in them.
A few years ago I read the history of NTSC on Ed Retian's excellent website. In fact I even have a link to that site on my own homepage!
I still think that picture tubes are amazing technology. I once saw a show about how they mfg. them. I think it's amazing that they work at all!
Anyone remember the "green" and "amber" computer monitors? I imagine those just had a single green gun or a single yellow gun in them.
Picture tube and camera tube phospors--The older computer monitors-monichrome ones-used the Green or yellow Phospors to get the green or yellow colors.The electron gun in a CRT just generates a stream of electrons-for them to be useful you have to convert their energy to visible light-thats what the phospors do on the picture tube's screen.for color TV-the NSTC color standards were --Red,Blue,Green.At the time this was devised red,blue,and green phospors were better suited for color reproduction.At the TV studio the camera had Orthicon,Plumbicon tubes for picking up the image.most cameras had 4 tubes-one for the monichrome image-and the others for colr-Red,Blue,Green.a camera tube is sort of a CRT as well-instead of the screen that you see the pictures on-the phospors in the camera tube generate a small voltage when struck by the electron stream-that signal is amplified and processed to a video signal that has the Vert and horiz sync signals added to it-then it can be used to modulate a visual stage of the TV transmitter.I have a few pick up tubes in my collection.for the colors-each tube had a suffix in its type number to denote what phospor color it had.Amperex made the Plumbicons,and RCA made the Orthicon tubes.Of course today cameras no longer have the pickup tubes-they have the CCD sensors-they change capacitance values when light strikes them-this can then be used to generate a video signal.And the CCD devices are much smaller and less expensive than the camera tubes.And the CCD's need less power.If you have ever seen pictures of early and tubed TV cameras you can see how heavy,bulky-and the cables that connected them to their power supplies and signal processing equipment.Now you can get almost all of that into a tiny camera you see and even use today.Oh yes-to seperate the colors for the image tubes or CCD sensors-prisms and filters are used.This one of the real deleicate devices in the camera.I am also sad that the NTSC system is going-worked with it quite a lot.
and for rectangular screen tubes-for the corners-"pincushion" adjustments were required to allow the beams correctly scan into the corners due to the fact the screen of the tube is not flat-the round jugs had a somewhat flatter screens.and the whole part of the screen wasn't used-hence the oval "bezel" on the set that sorrounded the image.To put it in another way-for color images-and its still done today-trhe camera generates the video signal by breaking down the image to the separate color ones-subtraction-and in the TV set-the image is reconstructed by--addition.The images are readded together again to form the picture.Convergence is the process that is done to make the beams fired form the CRT's electron guns strike the proper phospors on the screen.and there is convergence for cameras too-esp the tubed ones.Remember the convergence boards for those.You placed the board on a stand in front of the camera-and like the TV adjusted its controls for the proper results--Registration-as its called for the camera.In some cameras this can be done automatically.Better and faster,easier than doing it by hand!Eyeglasses and contact lenses can throw the Registration off.The auto set eliminated this problem.
and for rectangular screen tubes-for the corners-"pincushion" adjustments were required to allow the beams correctly scan into the corners due to the fact the screen of the tube is not flat-the round jugs had a somewhat flatter screens.and the whole part of the screen wasn't used-hence the oval "bezel" on the set that sorrounded the image.To put it in another way-for color images-and its still done today-trhe camera generates the video signal by breaking down the image to the separate color ones-subtraction-and in the TV set-the image is reconstructed by--addition.The images are readded together again to form the picture.Convergence is the process that is done to make the beams fired form the CRT's electron guns strike the proper phospors on the screen.and there is convergence for cameras too-esp the tubed ones.Remember the convergence boards for those.You placed the board on a stand in front of the camera-and like the TV adjusted its controls for the proper results--Registration-as its called for the camera.In some cameras this can be done automatically.Better and faster,easier than doing it by hand!Eyeglasses and contact lenses can throw the Registration off.The auto set eliminated this problem.
I remember those old green computer monitors. I used one quite a bit, back in the 80s. The thing that's interesting is that the idea has made a partial comeback in some word processing software--light text on a dark background. In some cases, the display looks exactly like a 1980 something computer monitor. Some like this combination, saying its easier on one's eyes. (Although, the funny thing is that some argued for black text on a white background back in the 80s, pretty much like we have now, saying it would be easier on one's eyes!).
As for the NTSC system, I heard rumblings on another forum at some point suggesting that the next President may order a stay of execution for the NTSC system. I don't know if this is possible, or if it's even likely to happen--my best guess is NO--but one never knows.
As for the NTSC system, I heard rumblings on another forum at some point suggesting that the next President may order a stay of execution for the NTSC system. I don't know if this is possible, or if it's even likely to happen--my best guess is NO--but one never knows.
TV stations can no longer apply for 'extension" periods(this was so they could locate a new site for the digital transmitter and antenna tower)Many have the digital transmitter and antenna on the same tower as the analog one.It's possible some sort of additiaonal "delay" could occur for the analog to digital transsition-It can depend on the "penetration" of the new digital sets-if not enough listners have them-it could make sense to delay the transistion.I forget the figure of how many digital sets to analog ones for that decision.Its a percentage type figure.
veg-o-matic
Well-known member
Oh, there are rules...
If the appliance/whatever has a Christian name, that's what it goes by: Laura (the TV), Troy (TV), Marilyn (stereo), Miss Fukiyama (hifi), etc.
If the appliance/whatever goes by its manufacturer's name, it becomes The Mighty whatever: The Mighty Caloric, The Mighty 2800, The Mighty Kitchenaid.
Which is not to say the two can't be combined, but it ends up a little awkward: Laura, The Mighty Zenith, Troy, The Mighty Olympic, etc.
I like to keep it simple...
veg
If the appliance/whatever has a Christian name, that's what it goes by: Laura (the TV), Troy (TV), Marilyn (stereo), Miss Fukiyama (hifi), etc.
If the appliance/whatever goes by its manufacturer's name, it becomes The Mighty whatever: The Mighty Caloric, The Mighty 2800, The Mighty Kitchenaid.
Which is not to say the two can't be combined, but it ends up a little awkward: Laura, The Mighty Zenith, Troy, The Mighty Olympic, etc.
I like to keep it simple...
veg
