Color Television: The Way it Was Meant to Be

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I think my area might be a problem area for digital. It's certainly a problem for both NTSC TV and radio. I have to think digital will be...troublesome.

My understanding is that digital is cleaner, even when the signal is slightly corrupted, but if it corrupts too far, it'll stop working. Analog is easily corrupted, and you can see the corruption, but it can continue working, until the user turns it off, frustrated by the more static-than-picture picture

I personally haven't bought into digital TV in any shape, form, or color. I haven't decided if/when I will, either. I'm not much of TV watcher. For a long time, I didn't even have a functioning TV set in service.

My roommate, on the other hand, despite a large DVD and VHS collection, does watch TV. So, there will need to be a conversion box, or a new TV. (Guess which appears to be the current fantasy?) Reality, given the bad reception, is quite likely cable--if it's available as a realistic option here. That would allow for the other fantasy I hear about--getting a new ISP that's less evil than the current ISP.
 
Colour in 1975

In Australia we've had 625 line B&W since 1956 just in time for the Melbourne Olympic Games. I guess that's the advantage of being a late adopter.

The link shows the program on the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) that brought colour into Aussie homes.

There has been Digital TV broadcasting in Metro areas here since 2001 with a cutoff date for analog in metro areas of 2012. Digital TV has improved reception in a lot of regional areas here. Michaels mother has always had patchy TV reception accross all channels, and with the set top box she now gets all her local channels, plus the Brisbane ones crystal clear.

 
Energy

A number of you have stated that we should continue to run dual streams for the foreseeable future, are you aware of how much that adds to the energy bill of a station?

As to reception, some stations are operating their digital output at a lower level, to save money. Some are on temporary frequencies and will be moving to a different channel in Feb. The bulk of stations will remain in the UHF range, but a few have opted to move to VHF because they can get a bigger punch there. This complicates things since people who use OTA will have to have bigger antennas, though some high gain UHF antennas will pick up high band VHF. As to my reception, I have access to 3 markets so those 28 stations have duplicates. To me it proves how robust the digital signal is.

Broadcast stations have invested tons of money for the transition and are investing more with the switch coming in Feb. I can imagine they would not be very happy if somehow this is delayed. Many people have no idea what they are missing. All HD content, except a movie or two, is wide screen. The detail is phenomenal when done correctly as is the sound.
 
MattL:

While I certainly take your point about energy consumption, I cannot feel even the tiniest bit sorry for stations about the expense of digital conversion, nor any expenses incurred by running dual streams, as you put it.

The frank fact of the matter is that our airwaves are the property of the people of the United States. Radio and TV stations licence that bandwidth to make money for themselves. The bandwidth used for NTSC television transmission is an immensely valuable commodity; TV stations make a lot of money off something that belongs to you and me. Our politicians are, in effect, taking that bandwidth away from a use We the People have enjoyed for over half a century, and licencing it out for other uses that will generate more revenue, not a penny of which will do the average person - who, after all, owns that bandwidth - any good whatsoever.

Yes, the HDTV picture is pretty. But consumers are having to foot a large bill for a conversion that not all of them want, or can afford, so that cellphone companies can make a killing over and above the one they're already making.

It stinketh.
 
Power consumption of TV transmitters-in general the UHF ones will consume more power than VHF models.the main reasons-the UHF ones are less efficient-and more power has to be run from the UHF to serve the same coverage area.another fac tor for both is antenna gain and transmission line loss-there can be up to about 1db loss on the line that connects the transmitter to the antenna-you have to figure the distance from the tranmsitter building-then how tall is the stations tower.UHF can also use waveguide-but only on the channels in the middle of the UHF band on up.the waveguide has lower losses.but--can have greater windloading on the tower.Yes--if the station has to run two tranmsitters-analog and digital-power consumption is a factor.also the cost to maintain the transmitters-you have to factor in replaceable parts such as tubes and circuit boards.
But the good side of the running both-You can have more revenue from the advertising to pay for the costs of the tranmsitters and antennas and the power used.for digital-on the same channel-stations can run up to four low def 480P programs at once-that gives them 4 more places for ad revenue.Thats why some are anxious to go to digital.to run the 1080 High def programs takes up the whole channel.You can only run just that HD show.
Yes it may be true the airwaves are the property of the people-but the FCC does have to regulate their use.Its like the idea of free speech-you just can't yell "FIRE" in the crowded theater!And as technology changes-there is going to be changes in the uses of the airwaves.Its also you can't just go on the air unless your station and transmitter are licensed.You have to remember you need that license to go on the air-except of course cellphones,and handitalkies.In general all radio and TV stations have more than one license for each facility-one for the station itself and the other for each transmitter the station has for that channel or frequency-and the station has to tell the FCC how the tranmsitters are used-if they are both the same model and age-Main-alternate-main.If dissimilar-Main-Auxillary.The licenses have to be posted where the transmitter is installed.Stations also cannot run below the licensed power unless its "Parameters at Variance"because of a transmitter or transmission line-antenna problems.they have to notify the FCC of this and again when the problem is fixed and the station is running at normal parameters.I have had to deal with this.A station can be fined if they caught running below or above their licensed power.Yes--sometimes DJ's will try to turn transmitter power up--they don't always understand licenes and whatnot.and damage to the transmitter and its associated equipment.
 
Good Grief!

Reading the concerns raised here reminds me of the exact same situation we had a few years back in Germany when we began the conversion to digital terrestrial broadcasting.
Yes, it sucks that 'our' property is being sold, but that is just the way things are under conservative politicians, they talk big about capitalism and since most folks fall for it, they get away with it - was that way in Europe, is that way in the States. You don't like it, stop voting for Republicans.
The actual conversion was painless and has worked perfectly in my part of Germany. We were, of course, the trial area and the problems were resolved over a period of eight years and not the few months many stations here will have. Of course the Americans have learned from our mistakes - this is a proven, older technology and not something brand new. Now that the United States is not the world technology leader but among the third tier countries in technology, we benefit enormously from the years of experience other nations have gathered. Yes, the was damning by faint praise and it makes me sad.
I have been hooking converter boxes up around here for friends and seen the exact same advantages and disadvantages as we had back in Europe - great sound, great picture or nothing at all. The converters are exactly the same technology, just different firmware, just as expected...
Never The Same Color twice won't be missed, after all - the old color sets weren't the problem, they faithfully reproduced the lousy broadcast. Fed a clean input from the converter box, our 1971 Wards is showing the best picture of her life, the 1967 round screen in the garage has vibrant colors beyond anything she has shown in the last 41 years.
 
One thing I do remember back in the 60's as people were buying color TV's was that they also needed to upgrade their antenna systems. The outdoor antennas that were used for B&W just did not provide enough signal for color. And the television dealers didn't tell you this until you called them to say your picture is snowy.
Out neighbors would spend about $125.00 for a new antenna system , I put ours in. I used a Winegard antenna with 75ohm coax lead in. Perfect picture. In fact last year I drove by the house I grew up in Hinsdale, IL and that Winegard antenna I put up in 1966 is STILL up there on the roof! And it appears to be in good condition!
 
Emailed my local PBS Station Engineer

I was curious about the power issue, I recall reading it was fairly expensive, here's the comment I got from Gary:

"Our power costs are 17% higher since June 20th thanks to a rate increase by our local utility, well, as is every commercial customer.

Yes, we are paying for two transmitters and yes we are getting tired of it. I haven't run the numbers with the new rates but I think we at about 1,000/month for the digital transmitter and 5,000/month for the analog transmitter. The FM bill is another 3,000/month for the analog and digital transmitters. (but that digital, HD radio, has been broken for about two weeks)

Donations are welcome."

Their digital signal is pretty decent, so I doubt they will be increasing power too much. At this point they kill the digital transmitter at midnight, the analog runs 24/7.

The converter boxes are no big deal. I picked up a couple to play with, odds are I'll give them to family members, they do a fine job. Actually provide more info than you get now, which is none, and are easy to use.

I have to agree with Keven, the US is really a third rate country when it comes to technology. I've read for years how much better European cell phone technology is, as well as internet speed. The next level of Video technology which will increase resolution 3+ times what HD is today is in the works. Odds are we'll only see it as we do DVDs, after this format change we will be living with ATSC for the next 50 years.
 
Can't really blame the Republicans on the digital tv issue-the system as it stands now was from President Clintons FCC appointee.other services --besides Cell Phones were pettioning the President and FCC back then to free up spectrum space for the other services besides broadcast television.Remember the technology changes-more people are using cable and satellite delivored TV programs than terristrial broadcasts.even back then when Clinton was president.Both vice president Al Gore and Bill Clinton were pushing for the digital TV broadcasting when they were still in office.the Republicans just still carryied the system thru.
 
Dave Johnson / Cartrivision

I was honored to spend time with late Dave Johnson, who in Chicago restored TVs. There are a few CT100s left in Chicago. He had every color set imaginable along with working CT100s and the rare Zenith 15" rounds. He bailed me out of a few parts issues and got me a rebuilt Predicta tube in a pinch. His collection was a jaw-dropper.
Other rarities - here is my Sears-Warwick CARTRIVISION console. Recently purchased from the estate of a SEARs buyer. Fixed the TV but the recorder repair is pending.

View attachment 8-9-2008-16-15-56--paulg.jpg
 
Channel changes

When I got my HDTV 4 years ago, I put in an antenna in the attic, so I could get the over the air broadcasts essentially for free. I put in an UHF only antenna, because all of the stations here are on the UHF frequencies for the digital broadcasts. We have had absolutely no information as to the final stations and whether they will change to VHF, in which case I will need an new antenna. Every day they have at least 50 commercials about the change to digital, so that no one can complain that they didn't know about it. But they never say anything about the final channel numbers.

The Olympics is comming in with beautiful detail and stunning color. The Dish Network is advertising an all HD system which looks promising.
 
Hate to see this thread disappear!

So I figured I would add my $.02!

We were the first people on our block in Ozone Park, NY who had a color tv back in 1960!

My folks never had a problem getting a babysitter for us! Everyone wanted to see COLOR TV!

It was an RCA 21 inch round tube set. I have no idea of the model name but can state with 100% reliability thet it was the CTC-11C Chassis.
My uncle had the same chassis in his set but the cabinet was different. Both were full sized consoles with the bonded glass picture tubes. I always remember how re had to replace the tuner knobs all the time as they were plastic affairs and the tuner which was a wafer type always needed a heavy hand to turn it.
That set went a long time before needing a picture tube like maybe 8 or 9 years and it was only getting a bit gassy at the time.
My uncle replaced it right in our living room and I was amazed at how big it was when it was out of the cabinet.
It was a real thrill at the time because he got us the "New Rare Earth Phosphors" picture tube.

The reds were definitely redder and the blues and greens more vibrant.

We tossed that set to the curb in the mid 80's and it was still working beautifully. It had gotten replaced by a built in to the wall 25" Heathkit set with remote control that I had built one summer. The RCA with its huge cabinet served as the stand for the Heathkit for like 2 years before I stuck it in the wall. It was cool to watch the two sets play the same programs at the same time but the 25 inch screen did have a better picture on it. Color was the same but sharpness and contrast went to the Heathkit.
 
First to get color television.

LOL Stevet ... we were the first to get color television in our neighbourhood, too. Our living room was full on Sun. eve. with all our friends.

Unfortunately, I do not remember the brand name, but I think it was Sylvania as they had not only a color and tint manual adjustment knobs, but a "chromex" which controlled the yellows (more like the greens considering the color guns. This may have been ca. 1962ish.

I used to get yelled at all the time for taking the back off and playing with the tubes. I had a tube tester and thought that great fun. I'm
still alive to tell it as I never hit that 25K volt ... area ...

For you television set enthusiastsm, I fould a great website on the history.

Enjoy the weekend.

Rob.
 
Did anyone ever play "Musical Colors?"

I remember when we first got our color set, my mother liked the picture a little on the red side, my dad liked it a little on the green side and I kept telling everyone to adjust the colors according to the flesh tones and the rest will fall into place.

My mother: "Those Roses on that table aren't red enough, turn up the red color".
My father "but the grass isn't green enough!, turn up the green"
Me: But now all peoples faces are blue (or green), leave the damn thing alone!
 
NSTC="Never the Same Color Twice"Esp in early color television.That is why older sets had the manual color controls-they could shift from show to show or station to station.Of course-the newer auto color controls are MUCH better.No having to tune the color yourself.With the manual controls it is indeed correct to try to adjust for proper flesh tones.Other factors can affect colors-since they are derive from phase relationships to the 3.58Mhz color carrier.If the phases should shift-then does the colors.This could be factors in the set,the program,or even from airplanes flying overhead.And could be due to transmitter problems at the station-if there is a mismatch between the transmitter and the transmit antenna-ghosting and color changes can occur.If the transmitter has parallel visual power amplifiers phase changes between them can also cause ghosting and color shifts.
 
Never the Same Color Twice...

I had to laugh at that one, so true!
We have a Sony Wega set and to tell you the truth, I can't remember the last time we touched any of the color controls. We just set it when we got the set several years ago and forgot about it. Perfect picture.
About the fleshtones color setting. When I was doing television for the church, we usually sent somebody up there before the service and set the colors according to their skin color. They had color bars set up to test with, but I don't think anybody actually ever looked at them. When they switched over to HD cameras, fleshtones now need only be set every few weeks.
 
On the two Sony sets I owned-NEVER had to adjust the color manually.Maybe one time and the sets chroma controller maintained it.The Hitachi RPTV I have now -only adjusted the picture setting once and during any program,DVD or BluRay and HDDVD's the color is perfect.so is the resolution.
 
Color Shifts!

Yes we played the ever changing color and hue game on our RCA. I always went for the pinkish flesh tones and my dad who is colorblind would change the hue to make the faces more green. We even went so far as to put small tape tabs on the set and knobs so we had a ready reference point.

Mom would yell at him all the time but sat there since she had no idea what to do to change them.

I can still remember the phone calls from my uncle who had the only other color set in the family when a staion would have a special boradcast or a new program went from B&W to color.

We suffered terribly from ghosting since we lived in front of Aqueduct Racetrack and would get the signal bounce off the track as well as living under the Idlewild landing pattern to runway 13R especially in the bad weather. The old V-Beam antenna was what we used so we had to live with that for a few more years till some better antennas came out.

Ahhh, the good old days.
 
Color Shifts!

Yes we played the ever changinge color and hue game on our RCA. I always went for the pinkish flesh tones and my dad who is colorblind would change the hue to make the faces more green. We solved the problem somewhat by putting small white tape marks on the set and the knobs so we had a reference point to go by.

Mom would yell at him all the time but sat there since she had no idea what to do to change them.

I can still remember the phone calls from my uncle who had the only other color set in the family when a staion would have a special boradcast or a new program went from B&W to color.

We suffered terribly from ghosting since we lived in front of Aqueduct Racetrack and would get the signal bounce off the track as well as living under the Idlewild landing pattern to runway 13R especially in the bad weather. The old V-Beam antenna was what we used so we had to live with that for a few more years till some better antennas came out.

Ahhh, the good old days.
 
A question on digital basics

I have read this Thread with great interest but have be remiss on not really researching how digital tv works. Are we dumping the NTSC system completely?

Does the dtv eliminate the need for adjusting color signals at the set like color and hue? Will it all come to us over the air as perfectly adjusted pictures as some seem to have suggested?
And what about the fact that UHF doesnt have the range that VHF has? Not to mention how unforgiving it will be if you cont have a great line of sight to the transmitter.
Since I have cable, I have become complacent and was the same way with Directv. I personally haven't been sold on the HDTV stuff since I have been watching digitalized signals for many years already and the quality has been great on DTV, Cablevision and Brighthouse. Granted it isnt 1080I but I can still see the difference between using their digital box as opposed to the standard cable fed to the other sets in the house.
 
Stevet, yes NTSC is going away ( at least 99% of it is) this Feb. While UHF has it's limitations, it does a decent job. A few of the digital stations are once again taking up residence on the VHF band, mostly upper range where they can get the most punch. It will be curious to see what these stations call themselves, since most will not be on the freq. they have been on for decades. No more ABC 7 news when they are ABC 23? Though with virtual numbers they can remain on virtual channel 7, but on cable many times they are not on their "real" channel number and people get used to that.

On digital sets you can sill adjust color and brightness, just as on any set. Once you set it you basically forget it, there is very little variation in the signal, not enough for me to bother with. For anyone who buys a new set I always recommend, or show up with my copy of AVIA to properly set the unit up. This is the most rudimentary method, but it does a pretty good job. For mid or high end sets I recommend having it professionally calibrated. Almost all sets come out of the box in what is termed "torch" mode, everything set high for punch on the display floor, this is far from correct color. Even older NTSC sets can benefit from a good adjustment. It may look strange to you for a few days, but after you get used to it you will see more detail and a more accurate picture.
 
Yes proper NTSC on a good set can look good. Here is my 1972 Sony Trinitron 12" video monitor. It is showing Video form my 1981 Pioneer VP-1000 LaserDisc Player. It is showing a scene form "Tron" Form the Disney Special Edition Box set. On top of the monitor is a 1950's Westinghouse Image Orthicon tube, the holder it is on was made by my friend who does StereoLithography for a living.

8-22-2008-09-19-20--mpatoray.jpg
 
Matt:cool stand for your Orthicon tube!May have to do that for mine--but a problem-have enough stuff on top of my TV!From DVD's to the clock,to the center channel speaker.Have my tubes in a cabinet in the back of my TV room.Camera tubes and some transmitter tubes.Oh yes--laserdiscs-have many-but haven't watched any of them in a long time.Have gotten to used to Hidef BlueRay and HDDVD.the BluRays are actually addictive!!The image and sound is so real-the best I have dealt with.remember when I used to buy and collect Laserdiscs!those trips to Tower Records and video on "I" street in Downtown DC.
UHF broadcasting-the bad parts--Its harder for the listner to receive-esp with indoor antennas-they are very sensitive to YOUR body presence and as well as others in the room.for digital-YOU MUST have an outdoor antenna.At the station end-UHF transmitters are more expensive for the station to buy and to operate.they are less efficient-and more power is required for the stations licensed coverage area.UHF rigs still use tubes-Klystrons and Klystrode tubes.these are water cooled-and you have to deal with the water cooling system.I have the same problems with the SW transmitters here at work.Its a hassle to deal with the plumbing.Leaks,clogs,and the purity of the water-it must be nonconductive since it has to pass thru HV parts.any UHF TV transmitter has a "Body current" meter monitor for each klystron tube-if the conductance of the water gets too high-the tranmsitter is tripped off to prevent damage.for you the repairman-means you have to drain and flush out the water system and replace the water with new distilled or Dionized water.And these transmitters can have as many as 5 klystron stages-each can generate up to 65kw of power.And the electric bill for this---OH BOY the station accountant is quaking in his shoes!You can see why UHF stations run so much advertising!Now if a station can use his older hi-band VHF channel it saves him money the VHF tranmsitter is smaller-no plumbing since it is air cooled with fans and blowers.You just have to change filters and vacuum the rig out every month.much less hassle.the VHF rigs can use gridded tubes such as triodes and tetrodes in the power stages-or be completely solid state.And another factor the station has to run less power with VHF for the same coverage area.Personlly I feel the UHF band should go to other services such as two way radio,and other communications instead of broadcast-would be more efficient use of the UHF band.Oh weell-most TV users now get their programs from satellite or cable than terristrial broadcasts.
For the TV-If you have a new HD set-go to its video setup menus and and select another picture or display mode for the set-use "cinema","movies",or "Smooth wide " modes-these will soften the colors and the brightness-contrast instead of the "in your face " modes the set was set on when it left the factory.If you adjust the set in this manner-calibration may not be required.What I DON'T LIKE about all this nonsense is that the TV's can be set right from the factory to begin with-who knows the machine better than the factory?and for some of this having to pay someone elese to set up the TV when I am more than qualified to do that myself-in fact more so than the person called to do it!Generally if you adjust the TV to one of the Cinema type modes thats an improvement right there-and it will be easier on your TV's CRT or Plasma tube.the excessive color,brightness and contrast levels can shorten the life of such displays.for LCD and DLP is doesn't matter so much-just the appearence and accuracy of the picture.
 

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