Commercial Laundry Detergents - Anyone Try At Home?

[launderess]

Have been using two types of commercial detergents lately. One is by Ecolab (Solid Super Star), which contains 8% STPP by weight, the rest being sodium carbonate and a surfactant NPE. The other is a detergent from Germany by Krussler made for laundering colours (contains no bleaches, OBA's or phosphates).

So far have to say both clean well, but the Ecolab detergent is more "old school" than the Krussler. Ecolab's detergent works best in warm or hot water, but hot (+140F) is best.Does not contain enzymes, but is touted to clean greasy and oily soils very well, which it does. Rather than use enzymes it relies on phosphates, surfactants and the washing soda to break down soils/oils and keep them suspended/washed away. The stuff is VERY concentrated, with only 2-3 grams needed for an 11lb load in my Miele. Have used up to 5 grams (makes next to no suds unless one seriously over doses), for really grimy loads. One fly in the ointment is nonylphenol ethoxylates (NPE), a group of chemicals that seem to have a wicked record and banned in Canada/the EU.

The Krussler detergent is top shelf stuff, right up there if not better than Persil for colours. Very concentrated, lighly scented and does an excellent job of cleaning. Even ring around the collar comes out without pre-treating. Unlike the Ecolab detergent, this is a complex modern cleaner with enzymes, phosphonates, and everything else one expects to find in a quality detergent,except for OBAs and bleaches. I like the fact can add oxygen bleach if needed but not subject every load to it all the time. In fact if and when my stash of detergents is depleted (Ha!), this may become my daily driver of detergents.

Anyone else using or have used commercial products at home?

L.

 

[westtexman]

I would love to try some. . .

Where did you get them?

Bryan

 

[launderess]

Sadly most commercial detergents if not all are sold through distributors who will NOT sell for home use, Ecolab in particular is very tighly controlled. Nabbed my stash of Ecolab off eBay, while the Euroepan detergent had to work around a local hand laundry owner to swing some.

Check around though, some chemcial suppliers will sell to domestic users, though you may have to go and pick up the product in person. Note most commercial products come in large, very large (read 25lb - 55lb) containers, though sometimes you can find smaller. If you are pally with anyone that owns a laundry or cleaning service, ask if they will order for you. Failing all of the above,there is always eBay.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

You can occasionally find commercial laundry detergents in restaurant supply or cash and carry stores.

 

[bajaespuma]

BRING BACK DASH!!!!

Laundress, I'm using two samples of Ecolab detergents right now that I nabbed through a representative at work. You're very right: they're very tightly controlled and getting a sample out of them was like pulling teeth. I have the tech sheet for them somewhere, but one of them (very expensive) has bleach added and is recommended for hot washes. It is very heavy and so far, I'm impressed with the results, especially the lack of suds in the hot cycle. The other one (half the price, apparently) has enzymes and is labeled as "not for use at temperatures above 140F. They both seem to work pretty well and I like the slight fragrance they leave on the loads. I wonder though, whether one needs to use a "sour" to neutralize them or whether plain old fabric softener is acidic enough.

As you know I think it's stupid for us to spend the money we're required to shell out for HE detergents. All I want is no- or low-suds and some phosphates. Death to running dogs P &G!

By the way, what's your opinion on using Automatic Dishwasher detergent in the laundry?

 

[sudsman]

Ecolab and other detergents

We use mostly Ecolab products here in our laundry. Being a smaller hospital service we can get any of the products we want . Most of the products that Ecolab offer are a high alkali products and you must use a sour with them to drop the ph to a safe level. This is not good to use in home type machines as it can cause many problems with plastic and rubber parts and if the machine is not stainless steel will cause it to rust .. We also use a large amount of home detergents in our small home type machines. As to do mostly scrubs and patient gowns in them as the larger machines tend to tear them up. I also have a Director of Nursing at one of the Hospitals that is always on me about trying anything new. If I have not tried something and made a "evaluation" of it by the time she finds out about a new product I usually get scolded like a bad puppy. So I am always looking for the new product to try and rate for her. Commerical or Home type . We have found in the past that in the machines we have here, (we have 12 ) that most of the time the powders seem to do a better job over all than the liquids. We have also found that water temps do NOT play a big role in general sanitation, The lab has done many test here on low temp washing and high temp washing and found that the culture test are almost the same. We have however found that if any of the washers are over loaded by as little as 2 lbs, this changes and the count skyrockets. Good wash action is what seems to make all the difference. We underload by 2%on all the machines and have very good quality work. ON the larger machine 75 and 125 it makes the unloading process a bit easier so the ladies can help on these machines too. We have also found that the H E detergents are a waste of money they do not clean or perform any better than a lesser amount of regular detergent.. Most of them we have tried are just a water down version of the daddy detergent. Sudsman

 

[launderess]

Ecolab "Solid SuperStar" detergent is designed for "homestyle" commercial machines and front loaders, so have no problems there. What is interesting is that this line of detergents is designed for use with Ecolab's Soild System detergent dispenser system. If a laundry buys the system/product Ecolab's own people set things up and calibrate the detergent and other products (there is a bleach, stain removers, fabric softners/and a combined fabric softener/sour as well) based upon the machines being used. You as the customer/laundry owner do not get to find out what the dosage/calibration ratio's are. Talk about a tight run ship! When I contacted Ecolab's customer service, all they could tell me what was pretty much on company website. Further information would have to come from a service representitive and they only work with customers. In other words unless one buys the stuff from Ecolab and has them set things up, "it's none of your bidness".

Finally managed to find out a bit of dosage information after hours of scanning the web, but honestly the stuff is only detergent.

Yes, one needs to use a sour with most Ecolab detergents as they are the old school types that use high akaline levels to break apart dirt/soils/oils. The newer detergents with enzymes may not require so much souring. Had a chance to purchase some Ecolab sour/FS combined, but rarely use FS so passed. One can add 1/4-1 cup of white vinegar to the final rinse water, with our without FS to act as a sour. White vinegar is a mild acid that wont harm most fabrics (if well diluted), or washing machines. Miele tech support told me it would cause no problems in their machines.

WesTexMan, if you want some of the Ecolab stuff, drop me an email. Have a case of the stuff and such a little goes along way that may be using it for the duration.

Automatic dishwashing detergents are far to caustic/alkaline for laundering textiles IMHO. Am well aware many swear by them for cleaning, and apparently it works well, but at what cost to textile fibers? Think about it, automatic dishwasher detergents are highly caustic in order to break down grease and oil found on dishes/pots and pans. Even the most highly alkaline laundry detergent is probably much milder than automatic dw detergent and for a good reason. Highly base detergents not only weaken textile fibers over time, but also cause those fibers to swell. As they swell hard water minerals found to some degree in all water enter and become trapped in the fabric. This results in that harsh,scratchy feeling laundry one sees when using too much of any harsh base substance like washing soda. Have heard of pepole recommending/using automatic dishwasher detergent for cleaning vintage linens, and it makes me cringe.

Low Sudsing Commercial Detergents.

Low foaming detergents have been offered/and are big with commercial laundries becouse that segment of the market has known for years that high foam levels are not a good indicator of cleaning performance. Also commercial laundries are always under pressure to keep costs in line. High foam means lots of rinsing, which means high water usage that must be billed for or eats into profits. One of the interesting things about using low suding detergents, both the Krussler and Ecolab, is that one sees little or no foaming as the washer drains, but lots of grease, muck and oils. Ewwwwwwwwww.

 

[sudsmaster]

I doubt that dw detergents are all that much more "caustic" than concentrated powder laundry detergents.

Why? Because they both contain the same basic ingredients: sodium carbonate and sodium silicate. Sodium silicate is the more alkaline of the two; it is added to help protect washer components. The main difference between powdered laundry and powder dw detergents is that the dw detergents contain far less, if any, surfactant, and also usually include phosphates. Phosphates are less alkaline than carbonates or silicates, so no worries about harshness there. Perhaps dw detergents contain more sodium silicate than laundry detergents (generally about 10% in a laundry detergent) but in the amounts added - as a booster for regular laundry detergent - even this may not be a factor.

Don't know about alkaline solutions causing fabrics to swell more than just plain warm water would. And a good non-precipitating water softener (like STPP) should keep the hard water minerals in solution, anyway. That is a potential advantage of adding some phosphated dw detergent to aheavily stained laundry load - it will add phosphates which will help combat hard water mineral issues.

 

[sudsman]

Solid products

Laundress ,WE have tried some soild products and had problems with the dispensers clogging up as our water pressure is not always the pressure needed to flush the product in. Also found that the incoming water temperature made a big difference in the amount that wash flushed in coolder water less warmer more.. They also have a system that Takes the solid cake and mixes up with water and saves it for use in the bottom tank of the dispenser,This seems to work ok if you only are feeding 1 or 2 machines but if ther hose run on the feeder line is more than 6 feet pumping ratios vary greatly at the machines. Any questions you have about E L products I will be more thank happy to find the answers for you. The do have 2 product that are packed in 45 lb boxes that are milder products One is Laundri Speical , The other is Laundry Brite Both have useage levels on the side of the pkg.. Most all of the products they make use rate is 12 0z per 100 lb. Another product that is very good is Soil Out but high in alkali, the Laundri Brite and Special are produce a light running suds and do a good job on general loads.. Would be happy to send you some samples if you would like. We us Dry Bleach , Sour , Dry Softner. Dry Antichlor and most of the Detergents mentioned above. Sudsman

 

[launderess]

Will have to see if I can find the article from a commercial laundry site about high alkaline levels and textile swelling. Yes, water does cause fibers to swell, some more than others, but alkaline enhances this action. IIRC, according to the article that is one of the reasons alkaline detergents are good at removing soils from textiles.

Washing soda is very caustic, however in the small amounts found in laundry products, and buffered by other chemicals it shouldn't cause problems. But on it's own repeated laundering with high levels of washing soda will degrade textiles. Just look/feel the difference between laundering say cotton towels or sheets in a detergent with lots of washing soda (like the old Arm & Hammer), or lots of it added on it's own as a "booster".

Automatic dishwashing detergents are mostly washing soda with low levels of phosphates, enzymes or chlorine bleach, oxygen bleaches (if no chlorine), and minor chemicals such as fragrance, colourants and so forth. Just picking up a box of dw detergent to a similar sized box of laundry detergent will tell you that the dw detergent is far more dense. That density is washing soda. Pick up a box of washing soda and it will probably "feel" about the same weight as a similar sized box of dw detergent.

When all is said and done, both types of detergent will clean anything, but IMHO automatic dishwasher detergent is much too strong for routine laundry use. Even the warnings on the box say to keep it away from clothing.

L.

 

[sudsman]

Solid products

Laundress ,WE have tried some soild products and had problems with the dispensers clogging up as our water pressure is not always the pressure needed to flush the product in. Also found that the incoming water temperature made a big difference in the amount that wash flushed in coolder water less, warmer more.. They also have a system that Takes the solid cake and mixes up with water and saves it for use in the bottom tank of the dispenser,This seems to work ok if you only are feeding 1 or 2 machines but if ther hose run on the feeder line is more than 6 feet pumping ratios vary greatly at the machines. Any questions you have about E L products I will be more than happy to find the answers for you. They do have 2 product that are packed in 45 lb boxes that are milder products One is Laundri Speical , The other is Laundry Brite Both have useage levels on the side of the pkg.. Most all of the products they make use rate is 12 0z per 100 lb. Another product that is very good is Soil Out but high in alkali, tLaundri Brite and Special are produce a light running suds and do a good job on general loads.. Would be happy to send you some samples if you would like . We use dry bleach, dry sour, dry softner, dry antichlor, and most of the above mentioned detergents. Sudsman

 

[sudsman]

Sorry I posted this twice please forgive Sudsman

Sorry

 

[launderess]

IIRC the instructions for Ecolab's Solid System require minimum of 130F water temp for intake into the dispenser system. Since have found that when doing cool or tepid washes some bits of the detergent come out in the wash water. Hence my assumption Solid Super Star is only for wash temps of 130F and above.

Thank you for the offer, but my laundry stash is beginning to out grow my laundry room! *LOL* Had the chance for some Ecolab anti-chlor and Destainer (concentrated chlorine bleach), and other things, but passed. Rarely use chlorine bleach, especially since my Miele does not like the stuff. For stains that require LCB for removal, dab a bit of Clorox bleach pen on the area, then launder. That way the oxygen bleach in the laundry cycle will cancel out any remaining chlorine bleach.

Did you know Ecolab is a divison of Henkel, the same company that makes Persil? Not a huge fan of Ecolab, only nabbed the Solid Super Star detergent after looking up the MSDS and found out it contained STPP, so no more ordering phosphates from the Chemistry Store. Honestly have found Tide w Bleach pretty much does a great job even without phosphates. However only started using TWB after I purchased the case of Ecolab detergent.

In fact the particular version I have of Solid Super Star detergent is no longer legal for sale in NYS, due to the phosphates. There is a non-phosphate version and also Ecolab changed the surfactant away from NPE to something else. Near as one can figure out, the detergent I have was made back in the late 90's or so. Maybe even earlier than that.

Speaking of Tide and Persil, one would be surprised how many commercial laundries use those products. Ariel as well (in markets where Tide is not sold). Of course commercial laundries have the luxury of those large commercial boxes.

L.

 

[sudsman]

Tide w b

We also use Tide W B and have very good results with it. Even in all temperatures, and all the machines it seems to do a good job. The toughest job we have is linen from the M E s office . The dead blood is the hardest to get out, also the ambulance linen is tough.. Tide does a as good or better than the commerical proudcts on these types of soil, We have also tried C W Tide and found little difference in it and Tide W B . Sudsman

 

[launderess]

If Tide came out with an non OBA formula, I'd be in heaven. Our local Nationwide discount shop has various versions of Tide from Canada, but haven't bothered yet as my stash is already too large. Am curious to see if there is any differences or just the same.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

Tide HE is loaded with OBA's. It's an easy deduction that can be made from the "brightening" score in the Consumer Reports review. Sears HE is rather low in OBA's, so that's what I use to clean my black work jeans.

 

[launderess]

My favourite non-OBA detergent is Cheer Free & Gentle powder, followed by the scented "HE" liquid. Actually I tell a lie, the Kruessler detergent is my favourite, with Cheer Free & Gentle ranking second, Cheer HE dead last. Seems there are very few top shelf non-OBA detergents. Have several bottles of Persil FEWA/Black Velvet for darks, which does clean quite well, but the scent is too strong. Rather like cross between a loose tart and cheap hair dye.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Don't use vinegar in the final rinse if you have a porcelain tub in your washer. The acidity left behind can break down the porcelain, especially in the thin coating on the edge of the perforations. Then you get rust dots on the clothing. Next to last rinse is better, especially if you have not titrated the amount of vinegar needed to bring the pH back to neutral. Leaving too much acid in fabrics can damage them also; burn nibble, burn nibble and then holes.

 

[peterh770]

There are a number of detergents made for "shirt" laundries by our old friends at Faultless. I stop by their booth every 2 years at the Clean trade show and they always have the best sales pitches for their detergents. I have never bought their products, but I must say that I am tempted. They might even be less expensive than importing the UK Persil that I love.