I'd like to see CR compare these phosphate free formulas against a phosphated formula. I suspect the phosphated formulas would score the highest.
Consumer Reports, Re-Reviews Dishwasher Detergents
- Thread starter mich
- Start date
Help Support :
mich
Well-known member
When...
P&G released the initial formulations of Cascade Complete, (there wasn't Platinum around then) the complete pacs, and powder, were just horrible. They wouldn't clean even lightly soiled plates, let alone, pots or pans. Everything would come out covered in film, and one, just basically thought it was a lost cause...
Shortly around the time, Finish (formerly Electrasol) starting touting themselves as better than Cascade, major improvements were made. The Cascade Action Pacs themselves gained Sodium Citrate (a lemon based, salt) which, dramatically improved cleaning performance, especially in hard water.
And that wasn't all... Shortly around that time, Cascade Gel gained a Rinse Agent (Which, pre-phosphate ban, was P&G's best seller, and the most purchased automatic dish washing product) and also, did a fairly better job then the initial horrible formulations..
Cascade Complete Powder, itself, still doesn't have all the water softening agents, as the Cascade Regular Action Pacs, or Complete Pacs, but it does do a much better job then the 2010 formula. It has much more Enzyme Content now, (a big boost in dishwashing performance)and has much less filler, with more Sodium Citrate & Sodium Carbonate (so it does a much better job at keeping dishes film free.
The only thing.. that leaves me unimpressed with P&G . Is Regular O'l Cascade Powder. The Regular Cascade Powder, hasn't changed, much at all. It simply doesn't have enough water softening agents in it, to preform well, in even moderately hard water, plus, it doesn't have much enzyme content to do anything either...
It's just a sad lost little cause, imo. I remember Packaging Labels, that said "The #1 Automatic Dishwasher Powder" and at the time, it could do well. It had enough Enzymes & Phosphates to really get dishes clean, and I mean, Really clean. Maybe not enough to scrub dried on food, but it was a powerful detergent...
Oh, Memories. Gotta love the State we live in...
P&G released the initial formulations of Cascade Complete, (there wasn't Platinum around then) the complete pacs, and powder, were just horrible. They wouldn't clean even lightly soiled plates, let alone, pots or pans. Everything would come out covered in film, and one, just basically thought it was a lost cause...
Shortly around the time, Finish (formerly Electrasol) starting touting themselves as better than Cascade, major improvements were made. The Cascade Action Pacs themselves gained Sodium Citrate (a lemon based, salt) which, dramatically improved cleaning performance, especially in hard water.
And that wasn't all... Shortly around that time, Cascade Gel gained a Rinse Agent (Which, pre-phosphate ban, was P&G's best seller, and the most purchased automatic dish washing product) and also, did a fairly better job then the initial horrible formulations..
Cascade Complete Powder, itself, still doesn't have all the water softening agents, as the Cascade Regular Action Pacs, or Complete Pacs, but it does do a much better job then the 2010 formula. It has much more Enzyme Content now, (a big boost in dishwashing performance)and has much less filler, with more Sodium Citrate & Sodium Carbonate (so it does a much better job at keeping dishes film free.
The only thing.. that leaves me unimpressed with P&G . Is Regular O'l Cascade Powder. The Regular Cascade Powder, hasn't changed, much at all. It simply doesn't have enough water softening agents in it, to preform well, in even moderately hard water, plus, it doesn't have much enzyme content to do anything either...
It's just a sad lost little cause, imo. I remember Packaging Labels, that said "The #1 Automatic Dishwasher Powder" and at the time, it could do well. It had enough Enzymes & Phosphates to really get dishes clean, and I mean, Really clean. Maybe not enough to scrub dried on food, but it was a powerful detergent...
Oh, Memories. Gotta love the State we live in...
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I can't remember how long it's been
I'm guessing a year (maybe more) since I purchased the case of institutional Cascade which has six big boxes and I'm currently on the fourth box which is almost gone and will be on the fifth box soon..........So it was just prior that I purchased the Cascade Complete phosphate FREE powder and Action Pacs....Both of which were just OK......This COULD have been late 2011.....I'm just guessing....I just remember at that time everyone was still complaining
I was hoping that by the time I finished the Phosphated Cascade, that the formula's would improve.......In the past year, someone gave me some samples of Finish Quantum, which, in my opinion, is BETTER than the institutional Cascade!! But it foamed (even with me having hard water) not softened.....When the dishwasher ran, you could hear how it sounded full of suds.....almost like it was working harder? But the dishes came out really clean. I finished the Quantum off and am back to finish the Cascade. I also tried a sample of the Finish Powerball and couldn't tell a difference between that and Quantum.....I don't think the powerball foamed as much.
I'm guessing a year (maybe more) since I purchased the case of institutional Cascade which has six big boxes and I'm currently on the fourth box which is almost gone and will be on the fifth box soon..........So it was just prior that I purchased the Cascade Complete phosphate FREE powder and Action Pacs....Both of which were just OK......This COULD have been late 2011.....I'm just guessing....I just remember at that time everyone was still complaining
I was hoping that by the time I finished the Phosphated Cascade, that the formula's would improve.......In the past year, someone gave me some samples of Finish Quantum, which, in my opinion, is BETTER than the institutional Cascade!! But it foamed (even with me having hard water) not softened.....When the dishwasher ran, you could hear how it sounded full of suds.....almost like it was working harder? But the dishes came out really clean. I finished the Quantum off and am back to finish the Cascade. I also tried a sample of the Finish Powerball and couldn't tell a difference between that and Quantum.....I don't think the powerball foamed as much.
jerrod6
Well-known member
When non phosphate DW detergents were released Cascade products had major issues. The P&G Cascade web site was full of complaints, so much so that P&G removed some of them.
Meanwhile there was Finish with Quantum non phosphate...performing much better than Cascade. Cascade has played catch up so the product is better...but Finish is still improving. I just used their newest formulation of Quantum without using any rinse aid and everything was dry...everything...even though my Dw does not have a heated dry, and the soil was light and the main wash only lasted 20 minutes.
Why am I going to buy Cascade before Quantum especially when Quantum is cheaper?
Why reward a brand that was late to the game and is now claiming to be the best when it isn't?
Meanwhile there was Finish with Quantum non phosphate...performing much better than Cascade. Cascade has played catch up so the product is better...but Finish is still improving. I just used their newest formulation of Quantum without using any rinse aid and everything was dry...everything...even though my Dw does not have a heated dry, and the soil was light and the main wash only lasted 20 minutes.
Why am I going to buy Cascade before Quantum especially when Quantum is cheaper?
Why reward a brand that was late to the game and is now claiming to be the best when it isn't?
mich
Well-known member
The Secert...
To Really, Dry Dishes, is to simply add rubbing alcohol. It causes a sheeting action, that makes the water sheet off your dishes, causing them to dry..
Anyone Could fill there Rinse Aid dispenser with some, and get really good results. Although, I prefer to simply add the Blue Bottle, and not mess with it.
To Really, Dry Dishes, is to simply add rubbing alcohol. It causes a sheeting action, that makes the water sheet off your dishes, causing them to dry..
Anyone Could fill there Rinse Aid dispenser with some, and get really good results. Although, I prefer to simply add the Blue Bottle, and not mess with it.
passatdoc
Well-known member
Are phosphate-free versions now required everywhere in USA?
As I posted several years ago, when a rumor arose here that phosphated DW detergent would soon be banned everywhere in the USA, I went to Costco and bought/hoarded three of their large canisters of Finish Powerball tablets. Each canister has 90-100 tablets. Given that I run the DW about twice a week, each canister represents a two year supply.
About a year later, some friends replaced a very old O'Keefe & Meritt DW (came with the house, built 1970s) with a new KA. Because the detergent door on their KA is very shallow, they can't close the door securely over a Finish Powerball tablet (my parents have a KA of the same vintage and it works fine with Finish tabs, but I digress). So rather than toss the two jumbo canisters of Powerball tablets they could no longer use, they gifted them to me. As a result, I am sitting on a 6-8 year supply of Powerball tabs, and have no plans to buy new ones any time soon.
As a result, I haven't even bothered to check the packages in the market or at Costco. As a result, when my hoard runs out, I will need to re-research what is available for sale at that time in the future. In the meantime, can phosphated Finish be had anywhere in the USA, or is it all phosphate-free now? I am in California, which was not one of the states with early phosphate bans.
As I posted several years ago, when a rumor arose here that phosphated DW detergent would soon be banned everywhere in the USA, I went to Costco and bought/hoarded three of their large canisters of Finish Powerball tablets. Each canister has 90-100 tablets. Given that I run the DW about twice a week, each canister represents a two year supply.
About a year later, some friends replaced a very old O'Keefe & Meritt DW (came with the house, built 1970s) with a new KA. Because the detergent door on their KA is very shallow, they can't close the door securely over a Finish Powerball tablet (my parents have a KA of the same vintage and it works fine with Finish tabs, but I digress). So rather than toss the two jumbo canisters of Powerball tablets they could no longer use, they gifted them to me. As a result, I am sitting on a 6-8 year supply of Powerball tabs, and have no plans to buy new ones any time soon.
As a result, I haven't even bothered to check the packages in the market or at Costco. As a result, when my hoard runs out, I will need to re-research what is available for sale at that time in the future. In the meantime, can phosphated Finish be had anywhere in the USA, or is it all phosphate-free now? I am in California, which was not one of the states with early phosphate bans.
joe_in_philly
Well-known member
Regarding Consumer Reports results:
I suspect that water chemistry and the type of dishwasher they used favors one type of detergent over another. If you watch the video, the dishwasher they use looks like a whirlpool manufactured model. The Hi-Temp Scrub button is activated, too.
I have been betting perfect results with the older version of Finish Quantum (before they added the gel) in my Bosch dishwasher. I also have tried the newest version of the Finish Powerball Tablets. They do a great job too, but I think the glasses seem to sparkle a bit more with the Quantum. Just about every detergent I have tried results in clean dishes, so I think that is a function of the dishwasher itself. The differences between detergents for me are determined if stains are removed from white cutting boards, or how shiny the load appears.
I suspect that water chemistry and the type of dishwasher they used favors one type of detergent over another. If you watch the video, the dishwasher they use looks like a whirlpool manufactured model. The Hi-Temp Scrub button is activated, too.
I have been betting perfect results with the older version of Finish Quantum (before they added the gel) in my Bosch dishwasher. I also have tried the newest version of the Finish Powerball Tablets. They do a great job too, but I think the glasses seem to sparkle a bit more with the Quantum. Just about every detergent I have tried results in clean dishes, so I think that is a function of the dishwasher itself. The differences between detergents for me are determined if stains are removed from white cutting boards, or how shiny the load appears.
passatdoc
Well-known member
I'm getting great results in a Bosch with Powerball tabs, but I'm sitting on a six year supply and they are the phosphated version.
jerrod6
Well-known member
I no longer subscribe so I guess I don't get to see the video ...no matter...but I wonder why they were testing using the high-temp power scrub option. Did they use this option the last time they tested.
I thought they only performed tests using a standard cycle and hi temp power scrub is not it.
Can't trust them as far as I could throw them.
I thought they only performed tests using a standard cycle and hi temp power scrub is not it.
Can't trust them as far as I could throw them.
mich
Well-known member
I don't see how the results would be really inaccurate..
If they were all Washed, in the Exact same model Dishwasher(s), with the Same incoming water temperatures, water hardness, and dishwasher cycles.
http://bcove.me/60xary7e
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/10/find-the-best-dishwasher-detergent/index.htm
Would appear that the "Kitchenaid" (Whirpool) model there using (in the video) is running on Normal Wash, with the Water Heating element on.
If they were all Washed, in the Exact same model Dishwasher(s), with the Same incoming water temperatures, water hardness, and dishwasher cycles.
http://bcove.me/60xary7e
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/10/find-the-best-dishwasher-detergent/index.htm
Would appear that the "Kitchenaid" (Whirpool) model there using (in the video) is running on Normal Wash, with the Water Heating element on.
