Continued Adventures with the Whirlpool TotalCoverage DW

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murando531

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
951
Location
Augusta, Georgia - US
I finally bought a waterproof sport cam, and it actually wasn't a GoPro. YI is apparently a company that also makes "GoPro" style cameras that had excellent reviews and even recommendations over the actual GoPros, and I must say, I'm delighted. It has built in WiFi that links directly to your phone, and the app that controls it is gorgeous and clean. I've been watching live footage of the inside of the dishwasher because it streams it right to the phone!!! And on that note...

I just compiled the dishwasher video to END ALL DISHWASHER VIDEOS!! At least for new Whirlpools anyway. You all can keep your Samsungs and GEs.. >:)

It's exporting and uploading now so I'll post a link soon. I also figured I'd start a new thread since the "Gorgeous new Whirlpool coming my way" thread isn't relevant anymore because while it is gorgeous, it's no longer coming my way lol. So I can just give updates here.
 
Whirlpool

Good videography.
So this is Whirlpools latest spray arm design for their "point voyager" dishwasher. Does it have the scrub zone at the back like higher end Kenmore and Kitchen aid models do? Three red spinning jets.
 
Fantastic video.
Better lighting than mine.
What did you use as light?
And what did you use to render the video?
I've struggled getting 1080 onto YouTube.

Funny, but I'm jealous of your Whilrlpool now!
 
Great Video and Camera! 

Such an interesting dishwasher!  I wonder how it changes the spray patterns on the lower wash arm? 

It does look like a very strong wash.

Thanks for the video.
 
Andrew, excellent photography angles.  Fascinating to see the different angles of the jets and the different combinta4itons of which holes are used as th4e pattern changes.  I have to admit the stopping & starting of the pump every minute would drive me nuts.  So much for zen-like, tranquil inducing dishwashing.  I assumed mine would do the same thing, but it just has the distribution valve changes spray zones without stopping the pump.  My old one would stop while the valve changed to activate the TZ area. 
 
Bob,

Did you change dishwashers?  I remember you had a very nice Kenmore Elite that you replaced your GE with.

 
also...

I like how the spray action is continuous when switching arms. This dishwasher was better than I expected from a filtration dishwasher. Next time, I would like to see a heavily soiled load with better lighting so we can get a better look of how it takes on dishwashing challenges. Thanks Andrew.
 
Thanks guys! :) Let's see, I'm going to try to respond to everyone's questions and such....

@vacerator - It's actually no longer a Point Voyager, though WP designed machines still use basically the same tub and rack designs. As far as I know, they are naming this design the "Tahoe" from what I've found in diagnostics literature, and upon viewing parts for the machine. Most people call it the Resource Saver or "manual filter" design, though in my experience so far, there hasn't been a thing to clean out of that filter. Also, the blue bars at the back (to the right in the first part of the video) are the PowerScour/TargetClean jets. Whirlpool has never implemented a spinning disc version for the WP and KitchenAid machines, because it's a feature Sears-Kenmore trademarked for their rebadged machines.

@johnb300m - Thanks! I have an LED light bar and a small LED flash light that I sealed in FoodSaver bags. Placing them is a bit tricky, because while you'd think a stainless interior would reflect the light everywhere, this stainless has a bit of a dark tint to it, so I had to make sure to point them in such a way that it would light where the camera was pointing without glaring into it. I used iMovie to thread them together, and exported them in 1080p high quality. Using the "ProRes" setting compressed it too much and made it grainy.

@a440 - Thank you! I'll try to grab some pics or find the ones I may have taken already, but the lower arm has a gear system inside that moves a valve bar slowly back and forth. The hub port that the arm locks to has a stationary pinion gear that causes the gears in the arm to rotate as the arm itself rotates from water pressure. As far as I can tell, the only jets that never closed are the two propulsion jets at each end, and the two on the underside that spray along the heating element, and another that points towards the middle to sweep water into the filter cup.

@appnut - Actually, the stopping and starting only seems to occur during the first couple or prewashes, or when 1-Hour Wash is chosen. I used a combo of Normal and 1Hr. Wash to catch the footage. When no soil is sensed, it seems to only do one prewash and then pops the detergent cup open and the heater kicks on, so I had to be strategic to make sure the water wouldn't get too warm for the camera. The machine also doesn't seem to like being interrupted, so when trying to change camera positions, it would seem to induce a pulsing behavior that I'm assuming is its way of sensing any extra soil from an added dish or something. It was easier just to cancel the cycle and start it over each time. Typically in my experience so far with using only Normal or Sensor cycle, it only pauses on and off during the first 10 minutes or so, and not very often, and then seems to never turn off the rest of the cycle besides drains and fills. It's honestly so darn quiet that it's really hard to tell what's happening in the first place. I am surprised that it runs so constantly though, because the motor has that X minutes on/X minutes off rating on it, and yet it never stops, so I'm guessing they have some way of keeping it cooled or perhaps it's actually running at a lower rate to be able to handle such long trips. If that's the case, I'd love to see how much power it would have running at full blast with a tub full of water.

Also, my grandparents have a Kenmore Elite Voyager that sounds like what you describe as your old one. Stainless steel, premium adjustable racks, red TurboZone spray discs and rinse aid cap, etc. When I had to disassemble it to clean gunk and debris from the grinder chamber, I discovered there are steel balls in the bend of the TurboZone supply tube, and underneath at the back there seems to be a solenoid system, so apparently it just magnetically kicks those balls to block water to the upper arm and diverts it to the TurboZone, which means the lower arm would still be running. I'm going to try catching inside footage of their machine next!

@logixx - That would be quite cool. The European version of Whirlpool's dishwashers seem to have a pretty serious PowerScour spray system, and also a pretty serious pump motor! I also find it interesting that they still call them PowerClean models, though they also make sure to add the 6th Sense nomenclature. Also, I did order a tripod for the little camera, so that will mean I can finally get better videos of the Bravos XL. :) I'll have to save up some good piles of laundry haha.

@gelaundry4ever - That's a good question. I would assume the lower arm is more powerful because 100% of the water pressure is going to it when active; the upper arm also has the upper spinner so water is being distributed a little more. I do think the upper arm seems to have the look of being more aggressive because it has great wash action and volume, but I'm thinking because the holes on the lower arm are smaller and also being alternated, more pressure is coming from each hole. If you notice when the lower arm is running, the water is hitting the camera pretty aggressively even in the top rack. I do notice when listening to the machine from the outside, the lower arm is what can be heard more clearly. My vote would be that the lower arm is more powerful, but the upper arm gets the award for being the most entertaining. :)

I may try to catch footage of a dirty load, but just the prewashes of course. The waterproof case on this camera seems very rugged, so I'll just have to make sure to rinse it off really well when pulling it out of the machine. Maybe RainX treating the lens will keep any food oils from clouding the view.
 
Wow

that was a great video Andrew. I've always wondered why my point voyagers start/stop during cycles, but I never really questioned it.

I did not realize the lower wash arm had different sprays that rotated through the wash arm....Like at one point, it's more powerful in the middle, then the ends, then close to the middle..

It's weird how that has a removable filter, yet there's nothing on it after all this time, don't you think? You would think there would be at least some food particles on it, especially since you just scrape, not rinse.

I can't believe I've had my Maytag 2 years this June, and I have yet to do a video inside. But no way would it as good as this video.
 
Success. Having a busy past couple of days left not very dirty dishes, but there were plates with marinara and ranch dip from pizza with friends and bowls from cereal and oatmeal that all sat for a couple of days, and mostly just glasses and cups because we drink water like crazy around here. But anyway, since we're out right now and the video only just published, here's the link to a new, fully loaded with dishes, dishwasher video. :)

This one is continuous, from the point of hitting Start until the cam sent a notification to my phone that it reached 15% battery (Wifi streaming to the phone drains it very quickly but I had to keep an eye on it to make sure it didn't fall). I took it out after a good bit into the main wash, because it had already started heating the water (yes, the main wash is heated without selecting any options, and gets hot enough to billow steam out the door when opened midway through, so I'm not sure where people get the idea that Whirlpool uses lukewarm wash water. I mean seriously...). This gives a good view of the pre washes as well, and certainly debunks the theory that these new machines "spit" on the dishes, and that the pumps constantly start and stop.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[this post was last edited: 2/21/2016-21:05]
 
After seeing the video of the WP dishwasher-may just get one!!Does a NICE job!!!the spray is more powerful than you are led to beleive.noting like the in the washer camera shots!!Liked how you could watch the stuff washed off the plate that you could clearly see!
 
I must admit, this machine has surprised and impressed me from day one. I was so confident that once I got it, I would hate it, because at first glance, the pump looks tiny and the holes in the spray arms look so small. Clearly, size really doesn't matter in this case, lol. I didn't expect the dishes to be practically clean within the first prewash or two, because that marinara was quite dry, as was the oatmeal on the bowls.

I really do think that this dishwasher is designed for much dirtier dishes than what the typical family produces, and even dirtier than ours with only scraping. Something just doesn't add up with Reviewed.com and Consumer Reports' ratings for this particular machine; a majority reason why I was so skeptical and worried in the first place. I think I'm going to just overlook their scores from now on. They gave my Maytag Voyager a horrible score, and yet it would scrub burnt soils off in the normal cycle and had not a single flaw except for the horrid tiered upper rack. They gave this Whirlpool a similar score for cleaning, and I've yet to have a speck of food on any item at all, nor anything to clean off the filter, even after the Peanut Butter Games of 2015/16. What I found interesting is that the Kenmore twin of this machine got a higher score, despite having identical wash systems, and the video they took of that KM showed that their curved upper arm design is less than impressive. Me thinks money has a convenient way of talking...

Moving on, it's still hard for me to wrap my head around the amount of wash action going on behind the door for the thing to be as silent as it is. I actually find the upper arm to be my favorite. I'd dare to say that it may be more powerful than the upper arm in the Voyager design, possibly because they seem to have alleviated the water leaks that the upper arm supply manifold had in those older designs. The lower arm isn't as "entertaining" aside from the alternating jets, but you have to remember that the same volume of water going to the upper arms is being forced through only 5-6 jets at a time in only the lower arm. Pair that with the tiny diameter of the holes, and you have individual pressure washers riding around down there. If you pay attention to the sound of the water hitting the camera, and the water hitting and beating the crap out of that upper arm, you can see how concentrated they are. I've had bowls clink before on the lower rack, plastic cups flipped, and even had light plastic items flipped in the upper rack as well. If you pay attention to the last part of the video after the camera slipped a little, you can see a glass in the left bottom corner that is being moved by the lower arm. And I find that delightful.
 
3 things

1. I really can't make out the silverware spray bar. It should be running together with the upper arm, am I right?

2. The spray management is amazing. Takeing a look at the side walls, there is basicly no water running down them in comparison to the loaded areas of the upper rack. That leads me to support my impression that the prewashes focus more onto the upper arm:
Because the prewashes play a big role in soil and load sensing as well as soaking, and the upper arm basicly sprays the upper rack directly (soaking and removing some soil) and the bottom rack indirectly due to the water dropping down, only "closed" items like upside down pots and such require direct spray from the bottom arm. Simply because the natural water movement can't reach their "soiled" sides. Thus, the upper arm may be used longer.
Only "sad" thing: The detergent pack did not properly drop down, thus dissolving verry slowly.

3. You really made me interested in super over soiled loads. Maybe you just can grab some casserole dish, divide it in 4 sections, cover them in sugar, cheese, spinach and maybe something like oil, burn this in in the oven, and give it a run? Just to see where the limits are. Or maybe to see if upper rack, lower rack and the special spray zone actually matter.

This machine seems the closest to true EU efficency and working without being a platform that is actually sold over here.

That being sad, DW as well as dryers had a huge efficency improvement over here in the past 10 years due to the EU labels. They basicly seized in efficency improvement since Bosch introduced the 6 liter DW, Zeolith drying (A+++ efficency in DW) and their A+++ dryers. Washers however are just about that mark, but when we thought A+++ -50% was all the hype: We are at -60% now. That is a whole of 0.5kWh or such numbers for a freaking 18 pound load.

Sorry for going of topic there...
 
@henene4 - The silverware spray bar is its own zone. It activates when the lower arm switches to the upper. It's hard to see well at that angle because the water blends with the shine of the stainless steel, but it also only runs for a few seconds between the lower and upper arm switch. Towards the end of the main wash and at a couple of points during the final rinse, it stops at the silverware bar for a much longer period. I think it was around 3 minutes each time as near as I could tell. I'm assuming the diverter valve motor only rotates in one direction, so it always switches in the same sequence: upper arm --> TurboZone --> lower arm --> silverware spray bar --> upper arm.

I was concerned with the detergent cup when first getting the machine, because it's so deep. It does, however, seal along the bottom and sides when the door is closed, and allows water to drain into the cup to help detergent begin dissolving but without leaking any of it out prematurely. I have noticed that with the upper rack lowered (I keep it in the upper position), the jets of the upper arm are aimed more into the cup, so I'm sure it would be cleared out more quickly. All in all, I've never had a bit of residue leftover after a cycle, and with the long main wash period, there's more than enough time to dissolve and clear it out. On a side note, I kind of chuckled seeing it open the first time because it's almost like it vomits water and chunks of detergent, lol.

I'll have to strongly consider that experiment. I'll be interested in testing whether the lower arm can handle it or if the TurboZone really does a better job, and also if the 8-hour Soak&Clean cycle and it's very extended prewash can knock it out. I have put a clear glass 9x13 in front of the TurboZone with burnt cheese and sauce from lasagna, and I was amazed there wasn't a speck left, so a full on experiment may be in order. :)
 
I have never owned a dishwasher that could totally clean my crock pot until this Kenmore Elite.  I made queso dip in it for Super Bowl.  I put it in the dishwasher facing the TZ jets and it came out spotless.  I was stunned.  I made a tuna casserole (without noodles, but stuffing, and did the same.  It didn't come out totally clean, but made a significant improvement over what the vessel was.  5 or 6 days later, I ran the dishwasher again, again on pots/pans, but without TZ, and it came out totally clean.  I was amazed.  So Andrew's assessment is right on. 
 
Peanut Butter Games

of 2015/2016 - lmao

Great video...Andrew - after reading your last post about consumer reports, it made me think of how LONG it's been since I've read anything they have published, other than the occasional post on here where people will comment on a review they gave a particular machine. I didn't realize they said your point voyager was horrible, and your current machine.

The noise level and the filter not needing to be cleaned are indeed strange. You would think you could hear something with what's going on inside.

Incidentally - sort of off topic - but do you notice the wash arms on the new Maytags? They look to be made of some sort of metal. I wonder what the difference is?
 
New maytags

I was checking out the new Maytag dishwashers before I bought my GE profile. The Maytag washer arms are indeed stainless steel. They seem to have the same spray hole pattern as the other whirlpool family machines. They also have that tiered upper rack that you fellas oh so love. ;)
They seem to have a much larger pump, similar to a motor and pump that are in the clean water wash kitchen aids. It must be powerful enough to drive a hard food disposer. They also have an accumulator filter chamber like the old point voyagers.
 
Alright, big test time. I did as henene4 said, and sprinkled sugar and cheese, and smeared pasta sauce in a glass baking pan and baked at 425 until it was nicely scorched. No Pam here. Along with that, I whipped up a packet of the nasty pumpkin spice instant oatmeal that no one has touched since Autumn, and microwaved it until well done and allowed it to sit and dry. Along with that, I'm throwing in the casserole dish from potatoes au gratin with a little scorching around the edges, a mixing bowl with bits of garlic and broccoli and spices still stuck, and all the large utensils and items I normally would have washed by hand because they take up large amounts of space.

Just for sport, I took the filter cup and plate out, and despite having nothing to clean off, I scrubbed them with hot water and soap to make sure they're spotless before running a load of nasties like this.

I think for this run, I'll use the Heavy cycle, for the first time since owning this machine..lol, and also because it's only fair for this much soil. Perhaps if I try it again I'll angle it towards the TargetClean jets and see how using that option improves at all.

I DO NOT expect this baking dish to come out spotless or even close, and even if it's still filthy, it doesn't change the fact that this machine is an exceptional dishwasher and cleans beautifully with reasonable soils. I honestly wouldn't expect it to come clean even in the PowerClean at max settings, simply because the cycle time isn't long enough for the detergent to perform properly.

If it does do well, however...I may just take out some insane insurance on the thing because I'll want to keep the thing as long as I live, not that I don't already feel that way now...haha.

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Okay, so I meant to run it this morning but had to run errands, and I wanted to be here while the machine was running to hear how different the Heavy cycle sounds than Normal. I did leave the machine completely open all night to make sure everything was well dried on.

It's just finished now and I've only propped the door open to allow the steam to escape and the dishes flash dry, and after it cools I'll open it up with my camera in hand. I smell a tiny bit of burnt cheese smell but it's not bad. It's masked by the smell of the Cascade rinse aid anyway.

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