After seeing the video of the WP dishwasher-may just get one!!Does a NICE job!!!the spray is more powerful than you are led to beleive.noting like the in the washer camera shots!!Liked how you could watch the stuff washed off the plate that you could clearly see!
Continued Adventures with the Whirlpool TotalCoverage DW
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I must admit, this machine has surprised and impressed me from day one. I was so confident that once I got it, I would hate it, because at first glance, the pump looks tiny and the holes in the spray arms look so small. Clearly, size really doesn't matter in this case, lol. I didn't expect the dishes to be practically clean within the first prewash or two, because that marinara was quite dry, as was the oatmeal on the bowls.
I really do think that this dishwasher is designed for much dirtier dishes than what the typical family produces, and even dirtier than ours with only scraping. Something just doesn't add up with Reviewed.com and Consumer Reports' ratings for this particular machine; a majority reason why I was so skeptical and worried in the first place. I think I'm going to just overlook their scores from now on. They gave my Maytag Voyager a horrible score, and yet it would scrub burnt soils off in the normal cycle and had not a single flaw except for the horrid tiered upper rack. They gave this Whirlpool a similar score for cleaning, and I've yet to have a speck of food on any item at all, nor anything to clean off the filter, even after the Peanut Butter Games of 2015/16. What I found interesting is that the Kenmore twin of this machine got a higher score, despite having identical wash systems, and the video they took of that KM showed that their curved upper arm design is less than impressive. Me thinks money has a convenient way of talking...
Moving on, it's still hard for me to wrap my head around the amount of wash action going on behind the door for the thing to be as silent as it is. I actually find the upper arm to be my favorite. I'd dare to say that it may be more powerful than the upper arm in the Voyager design, possibly because they seem to have alleviated the water leaks that the upper arm supply manifold had in those older designs. The lower arm isn't as "entertaining" aside from the alternating jets, but you have to remember that the same volume of water going to the upper arms is being forced through only 5-6 jets at a time in only the lower arm. Pair that with the tiny diameter of the holes, and you have individual pressure washers riding around down there. If you pay attention to the sound of the water hitting the camera, and the water hitting and beating the crap out of that upper arm, you can see how concentrated they are. I've had bowls clink before on the lower rack, plastic cups flipped, and even had light plastic items flipped in the upper rack as well. If you pay attention to the last part of the video after the camera slipped a little, you can see a glass in the left bottom corner that is being moved by the lower arm. And I find that delightful.
I really do think that this dishwasher is designed for much dirtier dishes than what the typical family produces, and even dirtier than ours with only scraping. Something just doesn't add up with Reviewed.com and Consumer Reports' ratings for this particular machine; a majority reason why I was so skeptical and worried in the first place. I think I'm going to just overlook their scores from now on. They gave my Maytag Voyager a horrible score, and yet it would scrub burnt soils off in the normal cycle and had not a single flaw except for the horrid tiered upper rack. They gave this Whirlpool a similar score for cleaning, and I've yet to have a speck of food on any item at all, nor anything to clean off the filter, even after the Peanut Butter Games of 2015/16. What I found interesting is that the Kenmore twin of this machine got a higher score, despite having identical wash systems, and the video they took of that KM showed that their curved upper arm design is less than impressive. Me thinks money has a convenient way of talking...
Moving on, it's still hard for me to wrap my head around the amount of wash action going on behind the door for the thing to be as silent as it is. I actually find the upper arm to be my favorite. I'd dare to say that it may be more powerful than the upper arm in the Voyager design, possibly because they seem to have alleviated the water leaks that the upper arm supply manifold had in those older designs. The lower arm isn't as "entertaining" aside from the alternating jets, but you have to remember that the same volume of water going to the upper arms is being forced through only 5-6 jets at a time in only the lower arm. Pair that with the tiny diameter of the holes, and you have individual pressure washers riding around down there. If you pay attention to the sound of the water hitting the camera, and the water hitting and beating the crap out of that upper arm, you can see how concentrated they are. I've had bowls clink before on the lower rack, plastic cups flipped, and even had light plastic items flipped in the upper rack as well. If you pay attention to the last part of the video after the camera slipped a little, you can see a glass in the left bottom corner that is being moved by the lower arm. And I find that delightful.
3 things
1. I really can't make out the silverware spray bar. It should be running together with the upper arm, am I right?
2. The spray management is amazing. Takeing a look at the side walls, there is basicly no water running down them in comparison to the loaded areas of the upper rack. That leads me to support my impression that the prewashes focus more onto the upper arm:
Because the prewashes play a big role in soil and load sensing as well as soaking, and the upper arm basicly sprays the upper rack directly (soaking and removing some soil) and the bottom rack indirectly due to the water dropping down, only "closed" items like upside down pots and such require direct spray from the bottom arm. Simply because the natural water movement can't reach their "soiled" sides. Thus, the upper arm may be used longer.
Only "sad" thing: The detergent pack did not properly drop down, thus dissolving verry slowly.
3. You really made me interested in super over soiled loads. Maybe you just can grab some casserole dish, divide it in 4 sections, cover them in sugar, cheese, spinach and maybe something like oil, burn this in in the oven, and give it a run? Just to see where the limits are. Or maybe to see if upper rack, lower rack and the special spray zone actually matter.
This machine seems the closest to true EU efficency and working without being a platform that is actually sold over here.
That being sad, DW as well as dryers had a huge efficency improvement over here in the past 10 years due to the EU labels. They basicly seized in efficency improvement since Bosch introduced the 6 liter DW, Zeolith drying (A+++ efficency in DW) and their A+++ dryers. Washers however are just about that mark, but when we thought A+++ -50% was all the hype: We are at -60% now. That is a whole of 0.5kWh or such numbers for a freaking 18 pound load.
Sorry for going of topic there...
1. I really can't make out the silverware spray bar. It should be running together with the upper arm, am I right?
2. The spray management is amazing. Takeing a look at the side walls, there is basicly no water running down them in comparison to the loaded areas of the upper rack. That leads me to support my impression that the prewashes focus more onto the upper arm:
Because the prewashes play a big role in soil and load sensing as well as soaking, and the upper arm basicly sprays the upper rack directly (soaking and removing some soil) and the bottom rack indirectly due to the water dropping down, only "closed" items like upside down pots and such require direct spray from the bottom arm. Simply because the natural water movement can't reach their "soiled" sides. Thus, the upper arm may be used longer.
Only "sad" thing: The detergent pack did not properly drop down, thus dissolving verry slowly.
3. You really made me interested in super over soiled loads. Maybe you just can grab some casserole dish, divide it in 4 sections, cover them in sugar, cheese, spinach and maybe something like oil, burn this in in the oven, and give it a run? Just to see where the limits are. Or maybe to see if upper rack, lower rack and the special spray zone actually matter.
This machine seems the closest to true EU efficency and working without being a platform that is actually sold over here.
That being sad, DW as well as dryers had a huge efficency improvement over here in the past 10 years due to the EU labels. They basicly seized in efficency improvement since Bosch introduced the 6 liter DW, Zeolith drying (A+++ efficency in DW) and their A+++ dryers. Washers however are just about that mark, but when we thought A+++ -50% was all the hype: We are at -60% now. That is a whole of 0.5kWh or such numbers for a freaking 18 pound load.
Sorry for going of topic there...
@henene4 - The silverware spray bar is its own zone. It activates when the lower arm switches to the upper. It's hard to see well at that angle because the water blends with the shine of the stainless steel, but it also only runs for a few seconds between the lower and upper arm switch. Towards the end of the main wash and at a couple of points during the final rinse, it stops at the silverware bar for a much longer period. I think it was around 3 minutes each time as near as I could tell. I'm assuming the diverter valve motor only rotates in one direction, so it always switches in the same sequence: upper arm --> TurboZone --> lower arm --> silverware spray bar --> upper arm.
I was concerned with the detergent cup when first getting the machine, because it's so deep. It does, however, seal along the bottom and sides when the door is closed, and allows water to drain into the cup to help detergent begin dissolving but without leaking any of it out prematurely. I have noticed that with the upper rack lowered (I keep it in the upper position), the jets of the upper arm are aimed more into the cup, so I'm sure it would be cleared out more quickly. All in all, I've never had a bit of residue leftover after a cycle, and with the long main wash period, there's more than enough time to dissolve and clear it out. On a side note, I kind of chuckled seeing it open the first time because it's almost like it vomits water and chunks of detergent, lol.
I'll have to strongly consider that experiment. I'll be interested in testing whether the lower arm can handle it or if the TurboZone really does a better job, and also if the 8-hour Soak&Clean cycle and it's very extended prewash can knock it out. I have put a clear glass 9x13 in front of the TurboZone with burnt cheese and sauce from lasagna, and I was amazed there wasn't a speck left, so a full on experiment may be in order.
I was concerned with the detergent cup when first getting the machine, because it's so deep. It does, however, seal along the bottom and sides when the door is closed, and allows water to drain into the cup to help detergent begin dissolving but without leaking any of it out prematurely. I have noticed that with the upper rack lowered (I keep it in the upper position), the jets of the upper arm are aimed more into the cup, so I'm sure it would be cleared out more quickly. All in all, I've never had a bit of residue leftover after a cycle, and with the long main wash period, there's more than enough time to dissolve and clear it out. On a side note, I kind of chuckled seeing it open the first time because it's almost like it vomits water and chunks of detergent, lol.
I'll have to strongly consider that experiment. I'll be interested in testing whether the lower arm can handle it or if the TurboZone really does a better job, and also if the 8-hour Soak&Clean cycle and it's very extended prewash can knock it out. I have put a clear glass 9x13 in front of the TurboZone with burnt cheese and sauce from lasagna, and I was amazed there wasn't a speck left, so a full on experiment may be in order.
I have never owned a dishwasher that could totally clean my crock pot until this Kenmore Elite. I made queso dip in it for Super Bowl. I put it in the dishwasher facing the TZ jets and it came out spotless. I was stunned. I made a tuna casserole (without noodles, but stuffing, and did the same. It didn't come out totally clean, but made a significant improvement over what the vessel was. 5 or 6 days later, I ran the dishwasher again, again on pots/pans, but without TZ, and it came out totally clean. I was amazed. So Andrew's assessment is right on.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Peanut Butter Games
of 2015/2016 - lmao
Great video...Andrew - after reading your last post about consumer reports, it made me think of how LONG it's been since I've read anything they have published, other than the occasional post on here where people will comment on a review they gave a particular machine. I didn't realize they said your point voyager was horrible, and your current machine.
The noise level and the filter not needing to be cleaned are indeed strange. You would think you could hear something with what's going on inside.
Incidentally - sort of off topic - but do you notice the wash arms on the new Maytags? They look to be made of some sort of metal. I wonder what the difference is?
of 2015/2016 - lmao
Great video...Andrew - after reading your last post about consumer reports, it made me think of how LONG it's been since I've read anything they have published, other than the occasional post on here where people will comment on a review they gave a particular machine. I didn't realize they said your point voyager was horrible, and your current machine.
The noise level and the filter not needing to be cleaned are indeed strange. You would think you could hear something with what's going on inside.
Incidentally - sort of off topic - but do you notice the wash arms on the new Maytags? They look to be made of some sort of metal. I wonder what the difference is?
I'd like to know.
I'd like to know the same thing.
I'd like to know the same thing.
New maytags
I was checking out the new Maytag dishwashers before I bought my GE profile. The Maytag washer arms are indeed stainless steel. They seem to have the same spray hole pattern as the other whirlpool family machines. They also have that tiered upper rack that you fellas oh so love.
They seem to have a much larger pump, similar to a motor and pump that are in the clean water wash kitchen aids. It must be powerful enough to drive a hard food disposer. They also have an accumulator filter chamber like the old point voyagers.
I was checking out the new Maytag dishwashers before I bought my GE profile. The Maytag washer arms are indeed stainless steel. They seem to have the same spray hole pattern as the other whirlpool family machines. They also have that tiered upper rack that you fellas oh so love.
They seem to have a much larger pump, similar to a motor and pump that are in the clean water wash kitchen aids. It must be powerful enough to drive a hard food disposer. They also have an accumulator filter chamber like the old point voyagers.
Alright, big test time. I did as henene4 said, and sprinkled sugar and cheese, and smeared pasta sauce in a glass baking pan and baked at 425 until it was nicely scorched. No Pam here. Along with that, I whipped up a packet of the nasty pumpkin spice instant oatmeal that no one has touched since Autumn, and microwaved it until well done and allowed it to sit and dry. Along with that, I'm throwing in the casserole dish from potatoes au gratin with a little scorching around the edges, a mixing bowl with bits of garlic and broccoli and spices still stuck, and all the large utensils and items I normally would have washed by hand because they take up large amounts of space.
Just for sport, I took the filter cup and plate out, and despite having nothing to clean off, I scrubbed them with hot water and soap to make sure they're spotless before running a load of nasties like this.
I think for this run, I'll use the Heavy cycle, for the first time since owning this machine..lol, and also because it's only fair for this much soil. Perhaps if I try it again I'll angle it towards the TargetClean jets and see how using that option improves at all.
I DO NOT expect this baking dish to come out spotless or even close, and even if it's still filthy, it doesn't change the fact that this machine is an exceptional dishwasher and cleans beautifully with reasonable soils. I honestly wouldn't expect it to come clean even in the PowerClean at max settings, simply because the cycle time isn't long enough for the detergent to perform properly.
If it does do well, however...I may just take out some insane insurance on the thing because I'll want to keep the thing as long as I live, not that I don't already feel that way now...haha.
Just for sport, I took the filter cup and plate out, and despite having nothing to clean off, I scrubbed them with hot water and soap to make sure they're spotless before running a load of nasties like this.
I think for this run, I'll use the Heavy cycle, for the first time since owning this machine..lol, and also because it's only fair for this much soil. Perhaps if I try it again I'll angle it towards the TargetClean jets and see how using that option improves at all.
I DO NOT expect this baking dish to come out spotless or even close, and even if it's still filthy, it doesn't change the fact that this machine is an exceptional dishwasher and cleans beautifully with reasonable soils. I honestly wouldn't expect it to come clean even in the PowerClean at max settings, simply because the cycle time isn't long enough for the detergent to perform properly.
If it does do well, however...I may just take out some insane insurance on the thing because I'll want to keep the thing as long as I live, not that I don't already feel that way now...haha.
I feel there's a new challenge coming up on aw.org. 
Okay, so I meant to run it this morning but had to run errands, and I wanted to be here while the machine was running to hear how different the Heavy cycle sounds than Normal. I did leave the machine completely open all night to make sure everything was well dried on.
It's just finished now and I've only propped the door open to allow the steam to escape and the dishes flash dry, and after it cools I'll open it up with my camera in hand. I smell a tiny bit of burnt cheese smell but it's not bad. It's masked by the smell of the Cascade rinse aid anyway.
It's just finished now and I've only propped the door open to allow the steam to escape and the dishes flash dry, and after it cools I'll open it up with my camera in hand. I smell a tiny bit of burnt cheese smell but it's not bad. It's masked by the smell of the Cascade rinse aid anyway.
You've got to be sh*tting me.
Okay so the first thing I noticed was the spoon with dried oatmeal still on it, but everything else in the silverware basket was clean. No yibbles along the top edge of the door or anything. I've been experimenting with keeping the stemware dividers flipped up, so I wonder would the spoon have come more clean if held up in the line of fire from the silverware bar more.
Then...
Okay so the first thing I noticed was the spoon with dried oatmeal still on it, but everything else in the silverware basket was clean. No yibbles along the top edge of the door or anything. I've been experimenting with keeping the stemware dividers flipped up, so I wonder would the spoon have come more clean if held up in the line of fire from the silverware bar more.
Then...
...I roll out the rack to find this.
Just a bit of char left along the edges but the bottom is squeaky clean. And I'm honestly scratching my head. No spray Pam or oil or anything, just sugar, tomato sauce, and cheese scorched on in the oven. I'm honestly in shock. I didn't expect near any of it to come off that well.
The round casserole was spotless as well, but to be fair there was only a bit of scorching, and that dish had been greased before baking in it.
Just a bit of char left along the edges but the bottom is squeaky clean. And I'm honestly scratching my head. No spray Pam or oil or anything, just sugar, tomato sauce, and cheese scorched on in the oven. I'm honestly in shock. I didn't expect near any of it to come off that well.
The round casserole was spotless as well, but to be fair there was only a bit of scorching, and that dish had been greased before baking in it.
The rest of the load was without a speck. The bowl full of caked-on dried oatmeal that I put in the top rack was without a trace of oats, and everything with a recessed bottom, like the large mixing bowl, had just a bit of crystal clear water. Even the large utensils loaded underneath were free of any yiblets. I half expected the ceiling to have at least a little bit of crusty around the upper sprayer, like our old GE Nautilus always used to have, but still, nothing.
The only thing questionable thus far is the little chunk of oatmeal stuck right at the opening grate of the round filter cup. I'm guessing it had moved somewhat out of range of the sweeper jets under the wash arm and just didn't have enough time to break apart.
I have not yet pulled out the filter cup. I want to unload everything first in case there are any chunks of anything to fall out. Surprisingly all the glass feels squeaky clean and has no residue that I can feel or see, and the plastic cups don't have any odor or smell to them at all. I'm sure that chunk of oatmeal is the CLEANEST chunk of oatmeal in ALL THE LAND.
I have not yet pulled out the filter cup. I want to unload everything first in case there are any chunks of anything to fall out. Surprisingly all the glass feels squeaky clean and has no residue that I can feel or see, and the plastic cups don't have any odor or smell to them at all. I'm sure that chunk of oatmeal is the CLEANEST chunk of oatmeal in ALL THE LAND.
Despite the chunk of oatmeal, there is amazingly nothing really in the filter cup besides speckles here and there. The water has a bit of a cloudy look but the camera makes it look much murkier than it actually is. It's almost positively just rinse aid residue. Even the PowerClean and Voyager had a whitish tinge to their residual water sometimes. I was at least expecting pieces of burnt cheese or something to be stuck, but alas, none at all. The drain port and pump impeller are evidently very well set up for handling heavy quantities of soil caught in the filter cup.
I'd give anything to work at a company like Consumer Reports or Reviewed.com, because there is evidently something horrendously wrong with their testing methods. Their sole complaint about this machine was its inability to clean away baked on soils on the Heavy cycle. Ironically their test was lasagna sauce, i.e. cheese and tomato sauce.
Now if you'll excuse me I'll just be marching on down to the insurance agency.
Now if you'll excuse me I'll just be marching on down to the insurance agency.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
amazing
.I do wonder to myself how mine would have done with the Jetclean steam that uses over 12 gallons of water and runs almost 4 hours, but I'm thinking I don't have the patience to do this. Whirlpool should post this on their site...
I do know that even the powerful dishwashers of the past would have probably left a little bit on there like your machine did...clean enough to make it easy to clean the residue left as opposed to if your were hand washing..I've had this happen in the past with Kenmore and GE from the 80s 90s with something that was really burnt on/baked on....It comes clean enough to make it easy to finish off the cleaning and put it away.
.I do wonder to myself how mine would have done with the Jetclean steam that uses over 12 gallons of water and runs almost 4 hours, but I'm thinking I don't have the patience to do this. Whirlpool should post this on their site...
I do know that even the powerful dishwashers of the past would have probably left a little bit on there like your machine did...clean enough to make it easy to clean the residue left as opposed to if your were hand washing..I've had this happen in the past with Kenmore and GE from the 80s 90s with something that was really burnt on/baked on....It comes clean enough to make it easy to finish off the cleaning and put it away.
AAAANNNNDREWWWWWWW!!!! Welcome to the world of total carefree dishwasher loading. No more judicious scraping before loading!! I'm even more proud of you. I long ago figured the only way you were ever going to load a dishwasher like this was for me to hog tie you to a chair and have you sit there and watch me do it lol. Your curiosity of design, engineering, and performance allowed you to really let go so to speak. (Now you understand why I BobLoad laundry & dishware). You deserve a new certification level that I had to come up with to match this. BobLoad Extreme Extroardinare (and I'm not sure that's even worthy enough). If you didn't use high-temp option with Heavy, I'm wonder what further cleaning would have resulted.
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