Converting a Dryer Recepticle?

[bellalaundry]

I have picked up a vintage AEG Centrifuge that is 220v. I have an extra 220v dryer recepticle that I would like to use to power the spinner.

Is there a simple adaptor to plug into the dryer recepticle that would allow me to plug in the two pin plug from the spinner?

Guy

 

[huggybear]

Probably not. What is the power requirement of the centrifuge? (I believe here in the US we call it an extractor).

Normally, a dryer outlet is fused for 30 amps - although here it is not uncommon to have 50 amp outlets installed for the dryer. Yes, it is wrong, but that doesn't seem to deter anyone.

I know Canada seems to be a lot more serious about grounding / bonding that we are. Do you have a 3-prong or a 4-prong outlet? Here, most of the time they use a 3-prong outlet, the ground prong is staight for 50 amp (which looks like a giant version of the Australian wall outlet) or in an L-shape for 30 amp. Then the ground is bonded to the cabinet, so the neutral is also the ground. But I digress.

I'm going to post some pictures, tell me which of these might match what you're trying to do. This is 250 volts, 15 amps

 

[huggybear]

The previous picture is commonly known as a NEMA 6-15

This is a NEMA 6-20. Note that the 6-20 recepticle will accept either a 6-15 or a 6-20 plug, but a 6-20 plug will not fit into a 6-15 receptacle.

 

[huggybear]

This is a 10-30 configuration

 

[huggybear]

This is a 10-50 configuration

 

[huggybear]

This is a 6-50. Note that in a way it looks like the common 5-15 outlet but it is much larger. Another difference between the 10-50 and 6-50 is that the 6-50 is designed for grounding only on the 3rd prong and the ground is not intended to carry current.

The 10-30 and 10-50 are designed to have the third conductor as a neutral and the neutral should not be used as a ground. The cabinet should be separately grounded, but people seldom do that.

 

[huggybear]

This is a 14-30. It has the two hot connections, a neutral and a ground. This is the CORRECT plug for an electric dryer in this country, but it is seldom used.

 

[huggybear]

Lastly, this is a 14-50. It is generally the correct one for an electric range, but again, seldom used.

Like the 14-30, it is a rather large plug.

Now, what would you like to plug into what?

 

[sudsmaster]

Huggybear gives good outlet!

I would read the power plate on the centrifuge to see what it says with regard to max amperage, voltage, and line frequency. If it's 220 volts, 15 amps, and 60 Hz, then you might be able to use a common 30 amp to 15 amp splitter box.

I would guess that the spinner draws no more than 15 amps at 220 volts AC. After all, all it does is spin, and the motor is probably no more than 1 HP.

Recently I picked up on eBay for about $20 an adapter to go from 30 amp 220 volts three prong North American dryer plug to two 15 amp NEMA 6-15 outlets. Each one has a 15 amp circuit breaker/switch. I would think that this sort of arrangement would work for the AEG spinner. It it's a vintage appliance and doesn't have any computerized electronics, that is.

The other concern might be the 50 hz vs 60 hz difference. If the spinner is 50 hz, the motor might not like 60 hz. But without more info it's sort of academic.

 

[bellalaundry]

Well...

My recepticle looks like the 14-30. The wattage of the extractor is quite minimal, I believe 400 watts.

What I'd like to do is plug the extractor plug (two round pins) into the 14-30 recepticle.

Our dryer's are wired just like you say for the 14-30, two hots a neutral and a ground.

Any ideas?

Guy

 

[sudsmaster]

The two round pin plug sounds like what is called a "Europlug". This means the spinner probably is set up for 50 hz. You could try wiring a 14-30 plug to a Europlug outlet, using a short length of two wire 14 gauge double insulated cord. Bear in mind that this will not protect the appliance until it draws more than 30 amps. You could even put a breaker box in between with a 15 amp breaker for each hot, tied together (15 amp ganged 220 volt breaker). I'd also be careful to make sure the arrangement doesn't result in an electrically hot cabinet. But since the plug that comes with it is non-polarized, perhaps that is not a concern. Don't know if the motor will react badly to 60 cycles vs. 50 cycles, though.

Were you able to find a plate on the appliance that gives the max amperage and cycles?

 

[toggleswitch]

Schuko anyone?

Assuming there are no electronics and the 50hz frequency and the 60hz frequency is not an issue in this case......

Take a European extension cord of adequate gauge(check its amperage rating) and with the female end that is like your appliance plug.

1) Chop off the male end.
2) Add a plug that will fit your dryer outlet, which based on your post has four holes (rather than three) in the receptacle, meaning the neutral and ground are not shared by one conductor/prong.

But some things to remember:

1- The US white/neutral of your receptacle will not be used.
2- IIRC the the brown is hot and blue is neutral in Europe. The blue (and the brown) of the European 220v appliance flex-cord will each have to go to a hot leg with our system. (Black or red wire in the USA).
3- The earth/ground (yellow/green fully or striped with both) can still be earthed/grounded.

However: If the appliance is itself grounded to the neutral conductor, (I'm thinking not likely) that connection will have to be severed or the applliance will blow fuses in this country, since what is normally neutral-- there-- is connected to a hot here as previously stated.

Good luck and be careful!
Would someone in the land of 220v please confirm the flex-cord colors? Thank you!

 

[mielabor]

Flex cord colours...

European wire colours:
Brown or black: live
Blue: neutral
Green/yellow: ground

Here in the Netherlands we don't differentiate between live and neutral wires in flex cords because the plugs are not polarised. Appliances are therefore NEVER grounded to the neutral connector. That would be very dangerous.

 

[panthera]

but

We also use condensers in some of the most un-expected configurations, and that means there COULD be an unexpected reaction as well as a (at least in theory) situation where you had some current flowing through the cabinet.
And before anyone says brush-less motors don't cause RF interference and thus don't need condensers, remember, please, this is Europe and all sorts of things are different here.
My suggestion:
1) Make sure that there is still a cover on the bottom of the "Wäscheschleuder". AEG didn't use one until well into the 1970's on some models! At least, at the time I came to Germany people were still making jokes about bathroom rug eaters.
2) Check yourself what the electrical setup is. Yes, what Theo posted above is currently correct - but really old systems had a different color coding. Or someone has messed with it. That cabinet ground is a must! I doubt the 50/60Hz difference will be that relevant, it is only about a 12% shift in speed at worst, no?
3) Or - given the relatively small demands placed on the motor, someone has either incorporated a converter (don't laugh, seen it done) or even a 120V, 60Hz motor.
4) Check the mechanicals while you are at it. Parts are no problem for most units, regardless of age. Things to check:
-Are all three rubber/cloth straps holding the motor in good condition? Does the motor swing freely?
-Does the brake/start/stop switch assembly have a firm connection to the handle at the top?
-Have you removed the gunk of ages from between the stainless steel (really old, galvanized or copper)basket and tub? Careful, sharp edges and screws to jab your fingers on in there.
-The design has not changed much in appearance in the last 60 years or so...it could be newer than one suspects and there is a centrifugal cover release built in, that may require adjusting. Hmm, make that: Will require adjusting.
Can we see pictures? I love these machines!
(Oh, and, yes, I would be hesitant to run a 400W machine on a 30Amp circuit, much less a 50 amp one.

 

[brisnat81]

Colour coding

In the UK and Australia, there was an earlier colour coding system that no longer applies.

Red was live
Black was Neutral
Green was the Earth.

These days, it is the same as europe
Brown is Live
Blue is Neutral
Green/Yellow is the Earth.

Apparently the reason for the change in the UK/AU was that red and black were both used in 3phase cabling, I think from memory, both as Live conductors. Therefore if you mistook the red and black in a 3 phase setup for the red and black in a single phase setup, you could end up with 400v instead of the 240v you were expecting.

 

[huggybear]

I have seen the red/black/green color coding on imported items in this country as well.

If you have a plug with only 2 round pins, there are a variety of plugs it might be:

Europlug (2 conductors) this is the European equivalent of our 2-prong ungrounded plugs.

France / Belgium (2 pins & a hole)

Schuko (2 pins and two slots on the side) - this is used in most of Europe except Israel, Italy, Switzerland, India, Poland, France, Belgium, the Scandanavian countries (well, Denmark anyway), The UK, Oz and China. I have included a picture of the CEE 7/7 plug which mates with the Schuko outlets and the French / Belgian outlets. In the Schuko outlets the ground is made by spring fingers which contact metal strips in the side of the plug.

IIRC That plug style is only rated at 10 amps, most likely that's what you have.

What I would do:

Change the plug to a 6-15

Change the outlet to match

You will not need the neutral (white) wire

Change the fuse / circuit breaker to 15 amp

Most 50 hz motors will run on 60 HZ - but keep in mind it will probably run 20% faster! If it's rated at 1000 rpm it will probably run at 1200 rpm.

 

[mielabor]

Earlier wire colours...

The current scheme for wire colours was introduced in the 1960's here in the Netherlands. The earlier scheme was thus:

Red or black: live
Green: neutral
Grey: ground

 

[dj-gabriele]

Schuko plug is 16 Amperes not 10.

And can you plesase explain why should one bother to check the outlet amperage? If there is a current leak don't you have a GFI or residual current device? As an example I know that my breaker trips if I have a "leak" of more 20 milliAmperes combined for every outlet/apliance in my home.

 

[red_october]

GFIs and RCDs

Are not common in America and definitely are not on the 240V dryer circuit. They were only mandatory some time into the 70s or 80s, I believe, and then only for receptacles in certainl locations, such as kitchens, bathrooms, and basements. Because one such receptacle protects many devices down the line, in my parents' house the kitchen and basement outlets all come off the bathroom circuit... This is done for economy of receptacles as GFIs cost a lot of money. This makes me wonder how many homeowners omit them when replacing GFI outlets... or eliminate them deliberately as most trips are nuisance trips.

 

[sudsmaster]

bathroom rug eaters

Off topic: I recall reading some years back that old Adolf had a habit of falling to the floor in a fit and gnawing on the drawing room carpet... I believe the German term for such behavior was something like Teppichfetchet.

 

[panthera]

Teppichfetischist?

Hmm, never heard about that one, but most folks here in Germany today would be quick to remind you that he was Austrian, not German.
Just as weak an excuse as I heard the other day on the train - bunch of American tourists (East Coast from their accents) explaining to their German relations: "Well, yes, but you know, really, he's from Texas, so what can you expect?"
I just had to butt in, couldn't help it..."Isn't Connecticut the 'constitution state'?"
Talk about if looks could kill. Yup, they were East Coast.
(If you're European and don't get the the nasty barb, that's ok, if'n you're from the 'States and don't get it, well gosh.)

By the by, and this is why the color thingy is so dangerous, some German codings permitted red to be used as ground(earth) in Schuko plugs. Thank goodness that one is long past.
The Euro-plug is supposed to be used for low amp supplies (two amps or less) and the Schuko does run up to 16Amps. Remember, please...16 amps at 230V is still 3,680W...
There are modified, non-grounding, non-polarised plugs which take heavy loads for double-insulated appliances, too. These look like the Schukos, but without the double grounding straps.

 

[sudsmaster]

I now recall the nickname he got was "Teppichfresser"... does that ring a bell?

Also, Connecticut is supposed to be "The Nutmeg State". Something to do with trade, I think. I think Pennsylvania might be the Constitution State, since the Constitution was signed there.

 

[bellalaundry]

My Plug

is just like the picture in William's response. I'm thinking I don't know enough about wiring that I will just haul out an up-converter that have hiding somewhere.

There is no bottom cover Keven...perhaps missing or never had one. I checked the rubber bands that keep the motor stable. I'm not sure if they are tight enough. Are these bands still available over in Europe? If so, could one of our European members give me an E address of someone that could help me find them?

Guy

 

[toggleswitch]

State nicknames.

http://www.50states.com/nickname.htm

 

[sudsmaster]

OK, Nutmeg must be the CT state motto or something like that. Probably in honor of GW Bush's excessive eggnog intake.

 

[panthera]

oh, dear me, yes

I'd say you rang my bell, Rich...but half the forum would say "that's why all the bats were swarming out of that belfry..." and the other half would gossip behind our backs...while the other half would, well, never mind.
Yes, "fressen" is a German verb for wolfing your food. People "essen", to eat...animals "fressen" or feed. Not a nice reference, but then, he was a horrid man.
And let's not say any more about that.
Connecticut is, indeed the constitution state...and I guess I was a bit too oblique (bet Toggles is still tittering over it tho', nothing low and base escapes his notice). The rather arogant East Coasters were trying to blame your country's current state of affairs on the attitude of Texans.
Now, having grown up in the Rocky Mountain West, I have the same, er...reservations...about some aspects of Texana as the rest of the West...but there is no reason to blame them for the blown in shrubbery.
They got my dig...and then had the joy and pleasure of explaining it to their German relations, knowing full well that the entire train (mostly Americans just flown in) were listening and more than happy to keep them on the straight and narrow.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, it's not well known that Bush Jr. was born in New Haven... as was I! However we parted ways a few hours after birth, lol.

 

[panthera]

Guy,

They're not a problem to get. No, they should not be overly tight...the idea is to suspend the motor so that it can swing out of balance without rocking the machine.
If they aren't cracked or listing to one side, I suggest you leave them be.
I am linking to the first of two pages on parts for these machines. This company is the easiest to deal with, they do not, however, sell outside of the European Common Market. Makes no never mind as you know several Europeans...including at least one who lives within walking distance of the store.
I will be in the US again at the end of the week, but ordering and shipping is doable through friends.
If the link doesn't work, their address is: www.kinseher.de and you need to look for "Wäscheschleuder". The link takes you to the jumping of site, you have to click on Wäscheschleuder at the top, on the left then again towards the bottom of the following list. Probably, you will get distracted by all the groovy stuff. I always am. (O, my paws and whiskers, did I just say "am"???)
Here is a picture of the most common sort, but there are several other variations. I have seen springs and straps used as well...

http://www.kinseher-shop.de/query.php?cp_tpl=main&cp_sid=1685397a80b2b

 

[sudsmaster]

At risk of belaboring a non-issue, I post the following just to supply some meager evidence that I was not really hallucinating when I claimed that Connecticut is The Nutmeg State:

<i>The "Nutmeg State"
According to the book State Names, Flags, Seals, Songs, Birds, Flowers, and Other Symbols by George Earlie Shankle (New York: H.W. Wilson Company, 1941):

"The sobriquet, the Nutmeg State, is applied to Connecticut because its early inhabitants had the reputation of being so ingenious and shrewd that they were able to make and sell wooden nutmegs. Sam Slick (Judge Halliburton) seems to be the originator of this story. Some claim that wooden nutmegs were actually sold, but they do not give either the time or the place."

Yankee peddlers from Connecticut sold nutmegs, and an alternative story is that:

"Unknowing buyers may have failed to grate nutmegs, thinking they had to be cracked like a walnut. Nutmegs are wood, and bounce when struck. If southern customers did not grate them, they may very well have accused the Yankees of selling useless "wooden" nutmegs, unaware that they wear down to a pungent powder to season pies and breads." Elizabeth Abbe, Librarian, the Connecticut Historical Society; Connecticut Magazine, April 1980.

http://www.cslib.org/nicknamesCT.htm

 

[panthera]

Rich,

I didn't know that.
I do love nutmeg, tho'. In German, it is called "Muskatnuß" and it is wonderous fun to rub one on a grater to get that beautiful scent.
I usually stay out - way out - of US politics, 'cause my family is split between strong human rights advocates (my parents) and people who belong, solidly, to the 20% "right, regardless" set.
But I saw no reason to have Texans disparaged for that which they had not done.
Any good recipies using nutmeg come to mind?
I use it in quiches...