Cooktop advice 12,000 vs. 15,000 BTU

[mattl]

I replaced my good old Kitchenaid gas cooktop with a shiny new JennAir cooktop. It looks great but that is about all, it's hell to cook on. One of the reasons I bought it was that it had a 15,000 BU burner as well as a very low heat burner. It does cook a bit faster than my old Kitchenaid and the simmer burner is great.

Problem is the layout. the two front burners are close together and the rears are spread out sort of /. The high output burner is front right and the low output is front left. Looked cool in the display room, got a great deal on ebay, but after 4 months I want it gone. If you have a large pot or griddle on the front burner you cannot use the rear burner, and it's hard to use the left front too.

I'm looking at a Thermador, and came across a deal on a display unit. Problem is it has 2 12,000 btu burners vs the 1 15,000 btu burner of the newer model. I'm trying to decide how valuable those 3,000 btus are. My old cooktop was no where near as fast as the Jennair, so I'd hate to trade down.

I like the Star burners on the Thermadore as well as the layout. But I'm open to suggestions if anyone has a gas cooktop they really like let me know, I'll take a look.

 

[mattl]

The Jenn-Air

This is the Jenn-Air that I hate!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Jenn-...ops?hash=item20ad569565&_trksid=p4295.c0.m299

 

[toggleswitch2]

.
3k BTU/h added to a 12k BTU/h burner gives it 25% more power.

I agree with you that different size/speed/output burners simmply reduces flexibility as to cooking-vessel placement.

 

[sudsmaster]

As I recall, I like the layout on the 36" cooktop from DCS. Apparently it's made by Fisher-Paykel.

The 30" might be what you're looking for as well.

 

[bajaespuma]

Remember that if you're using propane vs. natural gas, the BTU ratings, especially on US brands, can go way down. One of the reasons I purchased Gaggenau hobs was, with the European and higher end brands, they've engineered them to put out the same energy whether they're converted or not. Big pain in the a@@ with the Gaggenau's, however, is their &^%$#??"!! safety-start system which requires the user to hold down the knobs until the thermostats reads enough heat from the lit burner to leave the gas flow on. I have a 17K burner and AFAIC it still isn't hot enough for me.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The sad truth is that the gas burners are 40% efficient at putting heat into the pan. The rest heats the room; you can feel it going up the side of the pot. If you want speed, go with a 3000 or 3500 watt induction unit. Efficiency is right near 100% since the heat is created in the bottom of the pan and very little waste heat comes out of the electronics. The two induction units I have, 3000 watts on 230 and 1800 watts on 120 are so impressive that I use them for any operation that requires high heat. If I need more than the two induction elements, I transfer pans that have been brought up to cooking temperature via induction to the electric resistance coils that I heat up sufficiently to maintain the operation, generally a setting of "low" or less. Boiling water for pasta and building up a head of steam in pressure cookers is the most dramatic demonstration of speed, but even the speed with which a pan of frozen vegetables comes to the boil is noticeable and with absolutely no heat felt around the pan. The control over this power is equally dramatic. They can cook with as little as 1% of power. Generally a setting of less than 5% is great for simmering a cream soup with no boiling, no sticking to the bottom of the pan, etc.

 

[tlee618]

I have to agree with Tom, why not go with an induction.

 

[rapidry1000]

I have a 36" Fisher and Paykel gas cooktop with 5 burners. The center burner has 18,000 BTU for wok cooking and boiling large pots of water. There is also a similar model with a 14,000 BTU burner in the center but costs less. I've been very happy with the layout and performance of this cooktop. It replaced a 33" Tappan cooktop that was over 40 years old.
However Fisher and Paykel does not make a 30" model.
You might also look into a Dacor brand cooktop in the 30" width.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Tom is absoultely correct. I have a JennAir semi-commercial gas convection range. There is one 17,000 and one 18,000 BTU burner that sit in front, and a 12,000 and 6,000 BTU simmer burner in the back. The heat this stove generates is incredible. If the gas broiler is on, forget it. It's like hell's inferno in the kitchen. It does a phenomenal job of cooking though, everything comes out of it perfectly, but the heat is too much. As Tom said, you can feel the heat coming up the sides of the pots on the cooktop. Plus, the oven has a cooling fan to cool the electronics that blows over the oven cavity, pushing that heat out in to the room to boot.

If you can manage with induction, or even just an infrared glass cooktop, that's probably the best route. Either choice will cut down dramatically on the heat output to the kitchen, though I don't find either one as much fun as gas!

 

[mixfinder]

Distance yourself

Bigger, clunkier more industrial looking grates are popular. In the process it can lift the pan further from the flame slowing the heating process. Years ago gas ranges had one or two solid steel plates which acted as a heat diffuser and worked wonders on slow simmering and evening our heat for careful cooking of sauces and candies. Some upscale cooking sources sell them and possibly they're available from Jennaire which work just as well at the higher end of heating spectrum. Have you exhausted every effort to get Whirlpool to exchange the unit you have?

 

[mattl]

Well, earlier in life I've used a standard electric and a smooth top. Then late 80's went gas and love it. I would have stuck with the kitchenaid but the igniters acted up and it was too costly to repair. On this unit the burners were is a sort of arc, wider at front.

The bulk of my cookware is Caphalon with a few pieces of Visions, so unless I want to buy all new cookware on top of the cost of the induction top, it's not an option. Have a nice set of Club Aluminum from the 50's but that won't work either. Need to stick with gas.

I really don't have an issue with the heat output in the kitchen, during the summer I'm grilling outdoors, and the rest of the year the added is just cuts down on the furnace running.

I've been toying with trying this unit, though I'd have to do a fair amount of surgery on it since my oven is below. But I'm always up for a challenge...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130333116801&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[sudsmaster]

DCS has a 30" cooktop made by Fisher-Paykel.

Here's the link:

http://www.dcsranges.com/item_name_...-Fisher-Paykel-CTD_path_9094_item_481711.html

 

[mattl]

Thanks, I saw that too. Looks interesting.

 

[turboace]

In addition to the BTU's of the burners, you need to look at where the heat is relative to your pan. Many newer gas cooktops or ranges with the higher power burners have a very large flame spread, i.e. the diameter circle that the tips of the flame form when on high. Many smaller pots and fry pans sit within this circle, threfore the heat tranfer from the flame to the pan is reduced and your wasting BTUs and heating up your kitchen.

A key advantage to the thermodores and some others is the star burner. It gets more of the heat directly under the pan, so even with a lower BTU rating, you may have equal if not better cooking results.

This is the only range or cooktop I will own my entire life, no matter where I move or live I will get one. It does not have sealed burners, so the burners can get enough oxygen to burn hot and the flames are located right under the pot. I have one now and I love it. It does have two 22,000 BTU burners, and one 6000 simmer burner. If you like gas, its the only way to go.

http://www.bluestarcooking.com/bluestar_features.html#nova

 

[mattl]

I agree with you on the size of the flame, I always adjust it so it's not going up the sides of the pot. The is one of the things that attracted me to the Thermador.

The Blue Star looks great, but I'm sure it's not in my budget, plus I need a drop in style. But, I did bookmark it for future reference in case I change kitchens.

 

[travlincub321]

GE Profile

Although far far from glamours...I have used this cook top at a friends house a few times now it rocks... It has a 15,000 BTU burner, a 5,000 btu burner and i think 7500 or so btu burners..It has a very smooth adjustment for the burners.. I loved it.. Wish i could have one.. Its $881.00 at sears

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=JGP933WEKWW

 

[travlincub321]

And the other one

This is the other cooktop i used tonight at my nieghbors house.. Not as good as the GE, but still decent... This one also doesnt have a low btu burner, but rather a 12,000 and a 15,000 btu burner...

http://www.whirlpool.com/catalog/pr...oryId=80&subCategoryId=81&productId=1312#tabs

 

[sudsmaster]

The Bluestar drop-in cooktop looks interesting, but I'd want a 22,000 BTU burner to be in the center back - because of the way my kitchen is designed. The cooktop sits on a peninsula and the exhaust hood is most centered over a back burner. With my current Frigidaire "Gas on Glass" cooktop, the most powerful burner is in the center back. And the DCS has the most powerful burner more or less in the center.

What I wound up doing with my Frigidaire was to drill out slightly the gas jets for the biggest burner, and also for the right front burner (which I use the most). I think this boosted the burners a few thousand BTU's. Previously it took forever to get a big boiling water canner to boil on the biggest burner. Now it's a lot quicker. But the burners are still sealed and the flame "bloom" can be an issue.

 

[panthera]

Maybe

Tom's suggestion of a serious stand-alone induction unit might solve the problem for you? I have a commercial one that does 14 Amps at 230V and, wow, it boils a large pot - and keeps it boiling, loaded - faster and better than any other element, commercial or residential I have ever used, gas or resistance electric.

You're not going to get 3.2Kw off of 110V in the US, so if you don't have 240V in your kitchen, you'd have to look at getting a high powered unit for 110V. I don't know the exact comparison charts, but even a 13 Amp, 110V Sunpentown which we have had for three years now outboils anything else in the house when you have eight quarts of water to raise and maintain.

At least with this solution, you could keep the gas range for its other many good features and not have the hassle and expense of replacing it...with another unit which will have its own idiosyncrasies. The heat problem would remain in any case - induction really does make a noticeable difference in the summer. And nothing, not even professional gas, comes even close to induction for the precise heat control you need for sauces. That's the beauty of my 30cm unit - it can raise milk in a one quart sauce pan to exactly 60 degrees C. or boil six liters water and maintain it precisely in a lobster pot.

 

[jamiel]

Question to you induction users...can you dial in a temperature (i.e. Sensi-Temp/electric skillet) or do you dial in a heat output (1-100) which then is used and you need to guess whether a 32 will get you that 60 degree C milk?

 

[mattl]

travlincub, I am giving serious consideration to the GE you posted. I've got a line on a floor sample that I might be able to get at a decent price. The whirlpool looks like I'd have similar problems to what I have now, the front burner is too small and close to the controls. My ideal cooktop would have remote mounted controls like they did in the 60's. I've got a very nice Frigidaire CI cooktop in my attic that has the controls on a long cable that you can place where you'd like. Even has the burner with a brain feature.

 

[mattl]

panthera, welcome back! You've been missed.

I think I'd like to stich with just one cooktop, but induction is tempting. Came across a deal on an ONS Jenn-Aire split cooktop, 2 induction and 2 coil burners. Did some research and found it was 10 years old at least. Not so sure about 10 year old tech., might be problematic. Plus, my dad has a pacer, and I know some induction units can cause problems.

At this point it's gas, I'm giving serious thought to the GE as I mentioned, and the Jenn-Aire with the down draft, but it would need some serious modification, but I like the layout.

 

[mattl]

Just as an aside, I've noticed my pasta cooks differently with the high output burner. The boil is even and the texture is just a bit different.

 

[passatdoc]

My humble Frigidaire gas convection range has a 12K front right, the low output simmer behind it, and front and rear left are standard 9K burners. A more sensible layout, because usually anything being heated on simmer would be small and would fit behind a large stockpot on the high output burner. The current Frigidaire version of my model has a 14K front left burner, and they also offer a middle fifth burner (9K) for a 9K-9k-9k-14k-5k layout.....these versions did not exist when I bought my range in 2001, however. In either version, at least someone at Frigidaire put on their thinking cap and realized that a high power burner up front means a big pot, so anything used behind it would have to be a small pot, hence the simmer burner behind the big burner.

I can boil reasonably quickly with 12K. However, if you are accustomed to 14-15K, you would notice the difference if you went to 12K. My kitchen is not wired for 220V and I have no desire to tear it all out and rewire, so I am stuck with whichever gas solutions seem most intelligent.

Also of note is that unlike gas water heaters and clothes dryers, where gas usually has a cost advantage over electricity (unless the local electric rates are very low), the cost advantage of gas over electric ovens disappears. Gas ovens must be vented in order to bring oxygen to the flame, so some of the heat vents out into the kitchen during cooking (of course it does over time with electric, but during the cooking phase less heat leaves an electric oven). This wasted heat negates the cost differential between gas and electricity, and in cheap electric rate areas, it may cost less to operate an electric oven than a gas version.

 

[passatdoc]

oops, my bad: in both the 2001 and current versions of the range in question, the high power burner is always front right, and the low simmer burner is rear right, directly behind the high power burner. The 9K burners are on the left, and in the case of the newer 5-burner model, the center burner is also 9K.

 

[sudsmaster]

The better pasta results with a higher BTU burner probably has something to do with faster recovery time. For best texture, pasta should be dropped slowly into the boiling water so that the temperature stays high and the water continues to boil rapidly. A hotter burner will allow one to add the pasta faster.

Another unrelated tidbit: most pasta benefits from being "tempered" after it has been added and allowed to boil for about a minute. Then a cup of cold water is added, the pasta is stirred until boiling resumes and it is cooked to al dente as usual.

 

[travlincub321]

You wont be dissapointed in the ge... I used it again today

 

[panthera]

Thanks, Matt and Jeff and Lawrence

and all the others who asked whether I'd fallen off the face of the earth.

Just needed and took a long summer vacation off from posting and reading.

Did me good! And now I see Kelly is back, so what more could you ask for?

All the best to everyone!

 

[passatdoc]

burner layout

This is the 2009 version of my 2001 range. My 2001 model offered only four burners and the grates don't go all the way across. The current model offers five burners:

14K 5K

9k

9K 17K

(top row of diagram = rear burners, middle = middle burner, lowest row = front burners, sorry this board's program eliminates the spaces of the array I had arranged)

My "high power" burner is only 12K and I only have one. This model offers two high power burners, and layout is such that you can place a large stockpot either in the rear (on the left) or in the front (on the right). Most things that are simmered on the simmer burner are small pots, so this makes sense.

If you click on the thumbnail "Continuous Grates" in the photo gallery, you can see the layout.

This model features what Frigidaire calls "Quick Bake", a convection fan without an additional heating element. Most likely it isn't quite as fast or efficient as a third-element convection system, but I find that cooking times are reduced 5-10 minutes per hour. Most importantly, the heat is evenly distributed, so I can bake three racks of cookies or four pies all at once, and everything cooks nice and evenly. When you only have one oven, it's nice to have convection because sometimes you have to load it to the gills.

Frigidaire offers the same model with third-element convection for I think $80-100 extra. I have been delighted with the performance over the eight years I have owned it. My late 1980s home had a BOL GE range (good riddance to bad rubbish) with only a 110V plug and a gas line. Ten years ago, nearly all convection ranges were electric. By about 2000, a few companies began to make gas convection ranges (I'm taking mass produced ranges, not commercial stoves like Viking, etc.), and when I bought in fall 2001, the choices were GE, JennAir, KitchenAid, and Frigidaire. I guess they finally figured out there were millions of gas-equipped homes that needed or wanted upgraded appliances without a complete remodel required to run additional electrical lines for 220V appliances.

The Frigidaire was half the price of the other three and, with the savings, I bought a new Bosch dishwasher and a new over the range microwave oven/hood.

http://www.frigidaire.com/products/kitchen-appliances/gas-electric-ranges/FGGF3032KW

 

[mixfinder]

If I new you were coming

I'd have baked a cake. The one we made for your birthday, Kevin is quite stale.