Deciding on a KDS-?? KA dishwasher...can't decide

[surfduzdaz]

Congrats on the KDS-58!

Dishwasher twins! It's a great machine. I hope yours is able to provide the same joy that mine has brought me. You're definitely in the right place, with help from experts to get yours back to work.

 

[voodoochikin04]

Thanks!! I'm super excited to have this unit.

Ok so to show how much of a noob I am, I was not locking the door when attempting to push the buttons...once locked they all have nice clicking action and reset fairly well when unlocking the door.

I did pull the front panel off and snapped some pictures. I'm not sure what to think. There is a strong smelling oily substance, smells like a really strong chemical old school oil type smell. It has a slightly lubricity but it kind of sticky. Definitely doesn't smell like any type of animal urine. You can sort of see it in streaks down the wiring diagram and over the detergent cup. What's weird is where ever that substance is, it's rusted things. It's most on both hinges, idk if it was someone's attempt to make it smooth. It's weird, as if it ran from the top down, but I see nowhere it could have gotten in from the top while trying to see trails of it. Could be detergent, but how would it get upwards behind some items but not sprayed on others.. I don't know.

 

[combo52]

KDS-18-58 DW

Looks pretty good

 

The silicon sealant on the wash-arm hub is from the factory.

 

The stiff buttons [ I figured you were pushing them without having the door latched [ don't do that ], LOL

Spray a little silicone lubricant in the PB switch and also spray the plastic cam in the timer, this really makes these old parts work much better and hopefully longer.

 

You can use any acceptable gleaner on the rusty porcelain tank, Porcelain  coating is glass same as you Chambers range, bathtub etc.

 

I don't know what the oily stuff inside the door is, might be spilled wetting agent from the dispenser, I would clean it up as well as possible with damp hot rags.

 

John L.

 

[voodoochikin04]

John thanks for the info!!

Quick photo, what looked like pitted chrome in the original sale photos was dust.. this ole Betsy polishes up nice. When I get home later I plan to add some hot water, check for leaks, and then power it on. We have been letting dishes pile up in anticipation!

 

[voodoochikin04]

AAAAAAANNNDDD....

We have first launch. Soaked the tub with a half gallon of hot water (measured 120degrees at the tap.....) After finding no drips I decided to hook it up to the faucet. Plugged it in. Hit the cancel drain and latched the door. The unit roared to life and drained my water which stunk real real bad BUT, it was sudsy as heck..... That nasty strong oily residue is old detergent. My dispenser cup shafts must be leaking. I ran it through a partial normal wash then drained. Then hit short wash and that's where we are at. The solenoid snaps loud and crisp that's for sure.

I do have a question about the button operation. Scenario: I push cancel drain, it goes through it's ordeal and finally comes to a stop. Open door, close door and even though the cancel drain button is out, the unit goes back through the cycle. I push short wash to stop the cancel drain, open the door and buttons reset, close door and short wash starts back up, push short wash again and it's like already set in so the button just slides in with my finger.... Is this not resetting correctly or is this normal?

That's probably horribly confusing to read, I'm sorry.

Enjoy the photo.

 

[combo52]

Cancel operation

If you use the cancel function let it go through the complete cancel 4-6 minutes, when the machine shuts down open the door and you will hear the timer reset, just a few seconds and then you are free to latch the door and start another cycle if you wish.

 

[voodoochikin04]

Excitement trumps patience sometimes haha.

Here's my first load up!

 

[eurekastar]

I'm so glad you got it!  I know you'll really enjoy it!

 

[voodoochikin04]

I knew better than to use cascade gel we had hanging around. Left white powder on everything.. also a couple plastic bowls that previously were nice, have blistered.. hmmm.. silverware has white particles on some of it. Easily wipes off by hand. The pyrex bowls have scum left behind where food was dried on. And stuff didn't get real dry. The blower was going though and it was hot.

So I'm guessing I need to turn my water heater up to 140 for starters?

 

[qsd-dan]

So I'm guessing I need to turn my water heater up to 140

Kitchenaid recommended 140-160F and that's at the tap, not the water heater. I find 150F at the tap works best.

 

[voodoochikin04]

Well my water heater is about 6 feet from the tap.. through pex, id think it wouldnt lose too much heat through that short travel. I'll turn it up to 160 tomorrow and see what I get at that tap. I also ordered some bubble bandit on amz monday, will be here next week. In the mean time I might go grab some cascade powder? We have finish tablets but I remember hating them, its been 3 years since we had a dishwasher though, hard to remember.

 

[surfduzdaz]

When I first got mine, to clean it out before I tested it with dishes, I wiped down the inside and the seals, then ran three cycles:

The first cycle I ran with Bubble Bandit. After this cycle, the dishwasher looked new inside.

The second cycle I ran with just a large cup of white vinegar sitting upright in the upper rack. When it was done, the cup was just filled with water.

The third cycle I sprinkled about a cup of baking soda over the racks and into the bottom.

After those 3 "cleaning cycles," I started running dishes through it, and the results have been consistently excellent.

I find the dry cycle is very effective, but not 100%. I would make sure the "energy saver" option is off, for the best drying results.

I hope the Bubble Bandit works out for you. I hear that if the dishwasher is really bad inside, the first couple runs may leave residue behind, as it's "cleaning" the built-up scum out of the inside of the wash chamber.

 

[qsd-dan]

If you have Amazon, give Cascade Fryer Boilout a try. This is the magic dust engineers designed these dishwashers to hurricane around the box in back in the day.....well, the older stuff had about 20% phosphates rather than 7. I find it does a better job than bubble bandit but different water sources will provide different results. The sodium dichloroisocyanurate dihydrate ingredient (basically chlorine bleach) will greatly whiten plastic materials that have become yellowed or stained.

You can experiment with both detergents like using BB in the precup and Boilout in the main cup. I always got great results with that combo.

https://www.amazon.com/Cascade-Phosphates-Professional-Fryer-85-oz/dp/B00VHD3LGO

 

[voodoochikin04]

99% sure the cloudiness was the gel... same thing the last time I ran our old dishwasher (modern unit).. im gonna give the jug away to someone else lol..

I just ordered the cascade boil out. frankly 5lbs for 20$ doesnt seem bad to me.

i ended up running two short washes and a normal wash, all without detergent, and then the dishes.. i couldnt help myself haha, too excited. I did run the whole load through a sani cycle too, and the unit was considerably hotter and ultimately drier at the end.

im still having an issue with the cancel drain button.... I push it, it runs all the way through and the lights go off, i unlatch the door and the timer does its thing.. the moment I close the latch no matter how long Ive waited, the cycle starts over again. I think the button is sticking down. I need to pickup some silicone spray like I was told to earlier as well.

SO far I like it, and so does Millie!

 

[combo52]

KDS-18-58 DW

Progress , Hi Matthew, First Question what is your water hardness, This makes a big difference in how well any DWs works.

 

2nd question, is the DW getting enough water ?, test by putting a few glasses in the top rack with peanut butter smeared inside, if it is not removed the DW may have mechanical issues.

 

Incoming water temps over 140F should be avoided, temps this high play hell on your plumbing and also destroy cool older DWs like this one, Detergent with phosphates also greatly increasing the etching effect of using a DW and destroyed the DW and your dishes, so you have to figure out a balance that works.

 

Back when this great DW was built and when used daily with 140F water and phosphated detergents even great machines were lucky to last 20 years with several repairs, cheaper brands GE, HP, D&M WH etc were often very lucky to last 10 years. DWs are the most often replaced major appliance then and now.

 

John L.

 

[voodoochikin04]

John,

I do not know my water hardness level, we run on a well and have never tested it. It does take a while for our faucets to get water spots on them though. Is there a test I can do? EDIT: I did a crude soap test and my jar filled with suds from 3 drops of soap to 12oz water like the test I watched. im guessing my water is not extremely hard lol (we live in a very loamy soil area and our well is 143ft deep from the surface our house is on and the water table starts about 10ft below that on average. I dont have precise measurements of this. Our basement has drain tile around and under it which runs into a sump and is pumped out. Due to this water table level our basement is somewhat shallow. 6ft ceilings unfortunately.)

Water availability: the dishwasher adapter I got for my faucet has an aerator in it and is listed at 2.2gpm, BUT seems to flow less than the oem 1.8gpm aerator. I was going to ask if I should remove that bit from it.

My plumbing is a mix of original galvanized, some copper that was updated in 1980.. and some pex that was updated in the last 6 years.

Well shoot, on the detergents, everyone seems to recommend the two I bought lol...
In your opinion, what should I be using?

-----
EDIT: I wasnt getting the typical white cloudy film on everything. THAT i am familiar with as where we previously lived a few years back had really really hard water, the type that would leave calcium on the faucets overnight, and scale on the tubs and shower curtains unless religiously scrubbed daily.... What I am getting now is white stains where food was dried on. with the remainder of the item being clean, I really think its a combo of not high enough temps and using the cascade gel, AND potentially not enough water in the tank. I removed the flow limiter from the faucet adapter and its a massive improvement in flow. Ill run the DW again this evening like that and see if it gets better. The help i'm receiving here is just flat out awesome!!! THANKS!!![this post was last edited: 9/10/2020-09:47]

 

[Marky_Mark]

Hi Matt

 

I've been following this interesting thread and sharing your excitement and frustration along the way!

 

To test your water hardness, you can use test strips such as these on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Water-Hardne...water+hardness+test+kit&qid=1599753073&sr=8-5

 

[qsd-dan]

Water level:

On your next load, wait until the machine reaches and main wash cycle and quits filling. Stop the machine and let the water drip down for about a minute. Remove the bottom rack and take a close up picture of the water level surrounding the removable filter. We'll be able to judge if the water level is correct.

On the Normal/Sani cycles, the first 2 fills are 2 gallons each. The pre-wash, main wash, first purge, and second rinse are 3 gallon fills. The final rinse/sani rinse (if chosen) is a 2 gallon fill. Easiest way to gauge water use on these machines is every 30 seconds = 1 gallon fill.

 

[voodoochikin04]

I'll do that water level check tonight. I have a good feeling that stupid limiter in the faucet adapter was not allowing enough water in, because it sure didnt seem to be draining that much water each time.

 

[Marky_Mark]

When you next try it, it would be great if you could do what Dan suggested and take a photo of the water level of the main wash.

 

Are the detergent dispenser cups opening correctly?  You should be able to hear them pop open during the prewash and main wash.

 

It will be good to see how it performs next time you use it, without that flow restrictor.  

 

Detergent choice is another important factor.  I saw that you first mentioned that everything was covered in white powder, which sounds like possible hard water residue.  But then I also noticed that you said that there were white stains where food had dried on -- that sounds more like food/starch residue.  Let's see what happens once we know it's filling with enough water.  It's also a good idea to clean it out with critic acid, such as Lemi Shine etc.  You can fill both cups full and also add a good dose straight into the machine.  Then select the soak n scrub cycle.

 

If your water is soft, Cascade Complete powder should do a good job and can be added to both of the dispenser's closed cups and also the dispenser's open "indentation" or just on the back of the door when necessary.  It contains enzymes and should clean away starchy residues and leave dishes "virtually spotless." A rinse aid could also help and would assist drying, should you wish to use it.  If your water is hard, you may find a detergent such as Cascade Platinum pacs works best for you.  Cascade Fryer Boil Out and Bubble Bandit both contain phosphate and will help to alleviate the effects of hard water, but they don't contain enzymes and are unlikely to work as well as premium pacs on residues left by rice, pasta etc.  The Cascade gel you were using will not contain phosphate (unless it is 10 years old) and won't contain enzymes (unless it is Cascade Complete gel) so you are likely to see starchy residues and hard water deposits, if your water is hard.  It does contain chlorine bleach, as does the Boil out, so at least you won't have tea stains!  You really have to see what works best with your water, your water temperature, your machine, your cycles, your food soils etc.

 

Good luck!

Mark