Deciding on a KDS-?? KA dishwasher...can't decide

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That KDS-15 looks good, the leak under the door is probably not hard to correct. This KDS-15 is a later build version that the one you missed.

 

The WP may be in ok shape can't really tell from the pictures, The GE is one of the good GEs, but like the KA there is really no upper wash arm so you must load carefully for best results.

 

John L.
 
im heading out to kansas city today to pick up the harvest gold KDS-58. Looks very clean on the inside. says very little use. There are a couple pictures of the outside above, and then here are the inside photos of the KDS-58

[this post was last edited: 9/7/2020-14:33]

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ISE/KA22

The ISE 400 you noted above is basically the same as a Kitchenaid 21/22 Custom or Imperial model machine and will give good results and be less prone to being affected by poor scraping habits. The actual disposer assembly in the pump will chew up small pits and bits of small bones better than anything else out there. Make sure that the fine mesh screen is intact and not broken. Lift up the wash arm and remove it from the support to be sure.

The heating element in the bottom of the tub acts to heat the water while washing as well as to heat the air in the chamber when drying. The drying process is supplemented by the fan in the right hand rear corner. The element pulses on and off at intervals to provide the heat.
 
Thanks steve for that valuable tidbit!

So I am going to pick up the KDS-58 portable unit, I kind of mixed and matched my photos above in a very confusing way, sorry about that!...

Also I feel like for $50, the ISE 400 is a very good buy as well and may end up picking that unit up too.

I believe this week im going to go pick up that Brown KDS-15 with the leak, since its in very nice shape and free to me. just a 6hr drive. lol.. I have space to store these, so not a problem there.

THOUGHTS on that plan? haha.
 
DW Plan

Sounds like a good plan, The nice thing about the KDS-58 is being a HEAVY portable it probably was not used much.

 

Hi Steve, while the KD 21 & 22s do have a very good grinder the food can't  get to it, when you load these DWs with dishes covered with chunks of food like we do with the WP PC DWs there will be a mess of food chunks to fish out of the sump, been the and done it, they do work a little better at disposing of food if you throw away the removable trap.

 

John L.
 
KDS15 with labels

I would surely pick up the unused KDS15. It was a fantastic machine and like most have said, load it right and it will never fail you.

Definitely do like John L said. Insulate the tank with dynamat or some other thick product you can find. They are notoriously noisy and lose whatever heat the tank heater supplies while washing. When I was younger, I used to sit on the counter above our 15 when it was running and it was the warmest place in the kitchen. After the dynamat, insulate the tank with fiberglass and inside the door as well. Plain fiberglass in the door no foil or kraft paper on it and make sure that the soap dispenser doesn't catch on it.

And even if you are not the most careful pre-scraper around, the fine filter will do a good job of keeping the water clean. But DO clean it often if you are not.
 
Basically speaking,

It behooves all of us to pick up any KA or Postscrubber III we come across, if only for parts - to use ourselves or to share with others.

I've been helped here through the decades by so many members, I can't name they all - the generousity is enormous and made possible by our tendencies to 'hoard' vintage machines.

 

We are currently down to two fully working, daily driver Potscrubber IIIs and a TOL in storage in perfect working condition. Two Maytags in storage, of course as they are magnificent. My GE 2800 went to one of our members who needed a new board and wash arm sensor (and mine was the third revision, sigh. GE certainly could have done better). The Hotpoints and lower GEs are all gone. For the moment.....

 

Oh, and in case nobody has mentioned it to you in the last five seconds - be sure to clean the filter!
 
Well you guys will probably think I'm crazy, but I drove 6hrs each way to Kansas City, Mo yesterday for that kds-58. I had been conversing with a gentleman who was brokering this sale for a non internet guy. After a week of asking for pictures of the interior they finally sent some and told me no rust... Of course I get there and open the door.. rust.. around the temp sensor. I tipped the unit up and saw no signs of water leaking at that stop so I'm sure it can be taken care of. Just frustrating that they knew I was driving from afar and blatantly admitted they knew the rust was there. At any rate, the machine is very very clean on the outside and everything looks really good inside other than that spot. It's still in the back of the vehicle as we didn't get home till almost 3am and my wife had to work at 7. Here are the two pics I snapped. Paid $70 for it.

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Cool!

Good for you!

All porcelain tubs of that era have rust. 

There are some excellent threads on dealing with it from Laundress and several others around here.

Hotpoint dishwashers had exactly the same problems as KA and the solutions are exactly the same.

Have fun! You're going to like these projects.
 
Oh, probably silly, but

I always hook my vintage appliances up to the power through a GFCI when I'm testing them or working on them.

It's incredible how often there are minor flaws which could lead to me getting hurt or delicate electronics (and the electronics in vintage appliances were delicate when new, never mind today) blowing up.

 
 
I figured remove the temp sensor, grind the rust out and seal with a marine sealant or silicone washers. The filter basket has zero evidence of food or water scale so idk what that means. Of course when I got there the story had changed from older gentleman selling his stuff, to, the seller go it in trade for work 4 years ago and it's been in his kitchen unused since.

What would be the best procedure here with testing it out? I have read about tossing in a few gallons of hot water and letting it soak.

ALSO, since I'm a dishwasher noob, are the faucet fittings for the hoses standardized or will there be a special end I'll need to procure other than what the hardware store carries for dishwashers.

Thanks in advance!!
 
Ok here are the photos I took today when I got it unloaded onto the deck. I did notice mouse poop had shook loose from somewhere, ill have to check for a nest.

I'd surely love some guidance base on these photos since i've never been involved in vintage dishwashers :)

So i have a sneaking suspicion the detergent dispenser might be leaking due to what appears to be rust coming from the inside out below the DD.

The rust down in the sump, shows zero notice of it from the bottom side as far as I can tell, my quick visual saw no signs of leaking.

Picture 12....is that supposed to be there, that little plastic deal. Looks like it breaks the seal, maybe allows air in and out, I can see that steam has affected the wood top right above it.

Is the silicone on the wash arm, factory? Or is this a sign someone has had issues and tried fixing it.

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AND a couple more.

I was a little bummed to see the rusting there at the wheel attachments. Also when I first saw this fiber around the filter basket I thought mice.. but no other signs of a mouse nest inside, unless PO cleaned it out. The fibers actually look like maybe some type of material was originally attached there?

The boot connection in the 6th photo, is very hard and doesnt feel like it would become pliable.

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A roll of the dice!

Anytime you buy something from any classified source and even Ebay and such, you run the risk of seeing the things you have shown us. Porcelain is durable but can be delicate at times. The spot on the edge of the door is easily repairable and since it is where the gasket contacts the door, anything you may use will not come in contact with your dishes.

Don't start taking sensors and elements out of the sump just yet. The rust could well be just surface rust and will come off with soft scrub or Ajax or that type of non abrasive cleanser. You may want to try using ZUD as it contains oxalic acid which helps dissolve rust stains. Gently rub the area and rinse it away to see what is happening. Sometimes, chemicals in local water supplies react with the metals inside the dishwasher and there was likely some standing water in the machine for a while before it all evaporated leaving trace minerals behind.

Do pour in some water first to help "swell" the seals and gaskets, and you will also find any leaks before bringing the machine into the house.

You can do a test run of the motor by plugging it in latching the door closed and simply hitting the cancel/drain button and the timer will start the pump and run thru to the end and "drain" the machine out. That way you will hear the pump run, the drain solenoid snap open and closed and the dryer blower fan come on and know it is working.

The fuzz you have on the filter is very common and the best I have ever figured out is that it is nothing more than cellulose from paper, vegetables and meat that has been continuously washed by the detergents and has broken down as far as it can go, You will see that stuff in every dishwasher be it domestic or commercial. That is my main reason for not expecting a dishwasher to be a garbage disposer and food should be scraped off before loading. Not until Hobart put an actual disposer(though on a small scale)in their 21 and 22 series machines, did any machine have anything better than a soft food grinder. Yes, other manufacturers came up with soil separation technologies of their own but now could actually grind up hard objects.

Now that is not to say Hobart wasn't stubborn and thick headed in not having multiple rinses after their main washes on the 21 and 22's and it wasn't until Whirlpool came along and finally added a water heat delay for the wash cycles on the Hobart based dishwashers that you really had some stellar results. For the life of me, I will never figure out why Hobart resisted the market trend like that. I guess, if I ever started accumulating machines again, I would go for a KDS23 and install the electrical workings in a 21 or 22 tank and keep the Hobart pump but gain the heat delay features of the 23's that WP so wisely changed.

As far as the rust under the detergent cup goes. I will bet it is from the bottom of the dishrack. Pick up the front of the rack and look for rust and wear under the rack, in the middle and even the left and right sides in the front area. If you close the door with the rack still outside the tub, it will rub on the door and eventually wear away the coating on the rack and cause rust stains. You can see if the dispenser is leaking by removing the door panel and it will reveal all. As John L always says, take the dispenser out and turn it 180 degrees so the water if it gets by the small o-rings on the door shafts, should leak, it will fall harmlessly into the door cavity and not on to the wires for the bi-metal heaters that release the doors when the timer calls for detergent.

The water delivery tube under the top rack to the washarm will get a little softer with use. So don't worry about it now. Most of the time, they got squishy and deteriorated as the machines aged and was a common part that needed to be replaced. Look on the underside of it. There is a small hole in it to drain any residual water left in the tube. If it is looking like it is starting to crumble, then look for a replacement tube. Many of us still have some around with some life left in them. I have even seen people use the clear vinyl reinforced tubing you can get at Lowes or HD for a replacement. I don't know how long they may last but hey, it can work.

Not much you can do about the rust on the bottom rack where the hardware goes. Another fail spot after many years of wear. The previous owners may have loaded the rack with really heavy dishware and the metal is going to flex and the coating is going to give up sooner or later. Again. it's your choice to find something to use on it.

It would do you well, to try to find a donor machine to have a stock of spare parts for your machine. Racks are nearly impossible to find. But they are out there. A newer top rack will give you a wider washarm that gets the corners of the rack much better than the one you currently have. You will need to change the whit manifold in the back but it is an easy change to do. Does that cover it all? If not, we are all following this thread and will likely chime in for you if we need to.
 
STEVE!! Excellent advice and instruction my friend, I greatly appreciate it!

My plan was to hit those rust areas with some scour pads that I have used to take rust and other stains off the porcelain on my chambers stove, to see the extent of the damage.

I will pull the door panel off and see whats up there, and had read just today about flipping the DD 180 degrees!

I did have a couple questions yet:
1: will a KDS-17 bottom rack be the same as this one? (as well as the pump and timer assembly)
2: The selection buttons feel really spongy and don't click previously pushed buttons out when clicking new buttons. Is this normal and they will reset when plugged into power? OR Should I do as another owner has done and use electrical contact cleaner on that button assembly?

Again thank you to everyone who has contributed here to help me!
I plan to keep adding info and photos as I go along with prepping this DW for daily use, and hopefully it can help another noob like me. [this post was last edited: 9/8/2020-17:38]
 
No to the scrub pads

The porcelain used on this dishwasher is quite different to the porcelain used on a gas stove.
It is designed to deal with completely different environmental variables.
It can be badly damaged by Scotch Brite or other scrub pads except for the ones suitable for teflon.
I would suggest you try cleaning it with a cleaner that has oxalic acid in it if it is surface rust problem solved if it goes deeper well there are various ways of dealing with it that will hold up and hold up well laundress investigated several solutions, I have had JB weld high strength hold up in a dishwasher for almost 12 years now in daily use.
 
I had a KDS-20 in a house I once lived in about 15 years ago.  I thought it was a great DW.  In fact, it was probably the best I'd ever had up to that time.  The cycle times were short and rarely did I ever have to re-wash an item. We got rid of it when we remodeled and went with black appliances.  I could kick myself because I didn't know at the time that I could have simply changed the panels. 

 

I will admit that there are many brands made today that do a much better job of cleaning; however, for its day, the KDS-20 was top of the line in my book.  But my experience was limited to various Whirlpool and Maytag models up to that time.
 
Easy does it!

All lower racks from the 15 thru the 23 series will fit your machine but the 18 started the rack set up with the plates facing forward on the left side and all the rest going on the right side facing left.
The 15 thru 17 had a section in the middle facing forward and then there were spaces on the left and the right to face into the center of the rack. There should be plenty of pictures out there for you to reference.
Both will work fine but then you have to learn a different method of loading with the older racks. The machine should clean just as well with either set.

One other think to observe, thru the different years and models, the racks had varying amounts of tines and different spacing between them so some racks could hold more than others when strictly using the spacing provided by the tines. Just a little idiosyncrasy thanks to Hobart! Then there were the 22 and 23 racks that had a completely removable left hand section so you could load larger items on the left and use the right side for dishes and bowls. This was before fold down tines were used.

Regarding the selector switches. Don't use contact cleaner on them. That will wash out any lubricant that may still be inside the switch. Time dries out the lubricant so the action of the switch buttons changes. I would pull the knobs off and use some dielectric grease on the button shafts and work them in and out and on the left side of the selector assembly, there are flat fiber shafts that also slide in and out of the housing. Do the same there but be careful not to break them. Some slide only so far and others go in further into the housing. If you were to disassemble the switch housing, you would see grease inside but don't take that on. If you mess up the switch in any way you may have to go searching for another one.

Be very careful with your scouring pads. Absolutely nothing metallic as it will leave residue on the parts you cannot see and use nothing harsher than you would use on your face! Use a rag with some cleanser first and see what happens.
 
Sounds good!! thank you for warning me about the difference in porcelain enamels, I just assumed they were all the same. I've been talked to about oxalic acid recently to remove rust stains on chrome as well. I guess I should get some lol.
 

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