That’s absolutely exciting, how would the machine drain and
All that good stuff?
All that good stuff?
Dexter T-400 Washer Install Torture
- Thread starter maytagneptune
- Start date
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It has been done before:
@MarkwpDuet: If everyone was like me, washers like these would be a LOT more common homes. It doesn't make sense to me why a washer should last less than 60 years, spend so much time sensing, balancing, coasting, ect or take longer than 35 minutes to clean an average load. These machines are no nonsense getting the job done right the first time around.
I'm still with others, the machine needs to be bolted to a concrete floor with the concrete itself being re-enforced enough and thick enough for the forces involved. Even an ordinary garage floor may not be well suited for the task. I'd consult a structural engineer or contact Alliance directly on what they specifically have in mind when thinking about a bolt down installation.
The other option would be finding a way to sell this washer and use the money toward a soft mount Unimac or Dexter.
I hope you find something that works out.
@MarkwpDuet: If everyone was like me, washers like these would be a LOT more common homes. It doesn't make sense to me why a washer should last less than 60 years, spend so much time sensing, balancing, coasting, ect or take longer than 35 minutes to clean an average load. These machines are no nonsense getting the job done right the first time around.
I'm still with others, the machine needs to be bolted to a concrete floor with the concrete itself being re-enforced enough and thick enough for the forces involved. Even an ordinary garage floor may not be well suited for the task. I'd consult a structural engineer or contact Alliance directly on what they specifically have in mind when thinking about a bolt down installation.
The other option would be finding a way to sell this washer and use the money toward a soft mount Unimac or Dexter.
I hope you find something that works out.
In a basement is different than over one.
Yes, people have installed commercial hard mount washers in residences or other buildings in basements. Main issue again is these machines need to be on solid flooring with several feet of concrete. That or still solid flooring but with some sort of solid base anchored into a concrete floor.
Drain wise you need a trough/pit floor drain or at least last one. Some models may have ability to be equipped with pumps but most just have dump valves.
Yes, people have installed commercial hard mount washers in residences or other buildings in basements. Main issue again is these machines need to be on solid flooring with several feet of concrete. That or still solid flooring but with some sort of solid base anchored into a concrete floor.
Drain wise you need a trough/pit floor drain or at least last one. Some models may have ability to be equipped with pumps but most just have dump valves.
maytagneptune
Well-known member
Concrete Thickness
In Dexter's Installation video and a phone call with them as well. they said the floor does not need to be reinforced with rebar.
In Dexter's Installation video and a phone call with them as well. they said the floor does not need to be reinforced with rebar.
Bolt down front load washers
There’s just absolutely no reason to try to use a machine like this in a home. None of the bolt down washer spin fast enough to be worth a darn.
Speed Queen makes a very good non-bolt down machine that spins at 1200 RPMs there’s no reason to use one of these is a regular machine. It’s cool don’t get me wrong.
We have a bolt down Speed Queen that we may hook up at the museum someday along with an extractor and the big Speed Queen commercial gas dryer.
The only reason we may use this boat down machines for extremely large loads. But if you’re going to use one of these, you really get need to get an extractor.
John.
There’s just absolutely no reason to try to use a machine like this in a home. None of the bolt down washer spin fast enough to be worth a darn.
Speed Queen makes a very good non-bolt down machine that spins at 1200 RPMs there’s no reason to use one of these is a regular machine. It’s cool don’t get me wrong.
We have a bolt down Speed Queen that we may hook up at the museum someday along with an extractor and the big Speed Queen commercial gas dryer.
The only reason we may use this boat down machines for extremely large loads. But if you’re going to use one of these, you really get need to get an extractor.
John.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
It's been so long since I've been in a laundromat I forgot the sounds these FL's make....
It's funny...back when FL's were new I think most of us expected this kind of action but they are totally different.
It would be so nice if the home FL's could spin this quickly without deciding if it's safe to spin or not...I think that part can sometimes extend the cycle by 10 min's... maybe 15... It's just something you have to adapt to then you don't think much about it after that...
It's funny...back when FL's were new I think most of us expected this kind of action but they are totally different.
It would be so nice if the home FL's could spin this quickly without deciding if it's safe to spin or not...I think that part can sometimes extend the cycle by 10 min's... maybe 15... It's just something you have to adapt to then you don't think much about it after that...
Combo52
Do you have any photos of the extractor?
Do you have any photos of the extractor?
Generally hard mount washer/extractors do not offer high final speed speeds as soft mount. Thus yes, often wash coming out of laundromat and other machines that are former will have higher residual moisture than latter. But there is a method to that madness.
First and foremost laundromat owners tend to make their money on dryers. Thus final high speed spin for washers isn't always something in their best interest. This is particularly true since many customers vastly over dry (and thus over pay).
You see people load dryer at launderettes and then put in far too much money to thing will dry for an hour more or less. This when load of washing is dried within 30 minutes or so. People just load up driers, pay huge amounts of money then go away for an hour, hour and one-half, etc... When they return not only are things over dried but crisp!
For all the noise and pfaffing about large SQ front loaders do at my local launderette things come out far wetter than my Miele or AEG washers at home.
Separate extractors such as those once offered by Bock, American Laundry Machinery and others long have vanished from laundromats and even commercial/industrial laundries. You might find a few here and there but liability issues for both those used by customers and employees simply made them too huge a risk.
Truth to tell once washer/extractors came along there really wasn't a need for separate extractors. Yes, they did offer benefit of removing more water from items thus cutting drying time, but again liability and other issues just made them obsolete.
Finally arrival of gas (natural or propane) or electric dryers at least for laundromat or industrial laundries made high final extraction slightly less of a bother. Laundries long had and still do have steam heated dryers, but gas and or electric dryers can run at higher temps than steam which means shorter drying times.
Some laundromat owners may have changed things over years in name of energy efficacy and or to save bit of money, however historically laundromat dryers ran pretty hot. They had to in order to bake out all that water and give fast turnaround times. You'll notice in most laundromats the ratio of washers to dryers favors former.
By using simple maths a planner or owner of a laundromat or even commercial laundry can figure out how many dryers are needed per washer.
First and foremost laundromat owners tend to make their money on dryers. Thus final high speed spin for washers isn't always something in their best interest. This is particularly true since many customers vastly over dry (and thus over pay).
You see people load dryer at launderettes and then put in far too much money to thing will dry for an hour more or less. This when load of washing is dried within 30 minutes or so. People just load up driers, pay huge amounts of money then go away for an hour, hour and one-half, etc... When they return not only are things over dried but crisp!
For all the noise and pfaffing about large SQ front loaders do at my local launderette things come out far wetter than my Miele or AEG washers at home.
Separate extractors such as those once offered by Bock, American Laundry Machinery and others long have vanished from laundromats and even commercial/industrial laundries. You might find a few here and there but liability issues for both those used by customers and employees simply made them too huge a risk.
Truth to tell once washer/extractors came along there really wasn't a need for separate extractors. Yes, they did offer benefit of removing more water from items thus cutting drying time, but again liability and other issues just made them obsolete.
Finally arrival of gas (natural or propane) or electric dryers at least for laundromat or industrial laundries made high final extraction slightly less of a bother. Laundries long had and still do have steam heated dryers, but gas and or electric dryers can run at higher temps than steam which means shorter drying times.
Some laundromat owners may have changed things over years in name of energy efficacy and or to save bit of money, however historically laundromat dryers ran pretty hot. They had to in order to bake out all that water and give fast turnaround times. You'll notice in most laundromats the ratio of washers to dryers favors former.
By using simple maths a planner or owner of a laundromat or even commercial laundry can figure out how many dryers are needed per washer.
Tagging onto above, there are OPL and coin op dryers with moisture sensors. Former have no issues with such equipment, latter OTOH often faces push back from customers.
You know the sort; Mrs. Nora Neat who has her ways with laundromats and won't be told. If she wants to load up a dryer with excess time and thus money to bake her wash to a crisp no one is going to tell her otherwise.
Thus owners of mats often have to do extensive education explaining how dryers with moisture sensors work. Even then you're going to get a percentage of customers moaning their wash isn't dry to their standards.
https://cleaningandlaundryequipment.com/benefits-of-opt-moisture-sensors/
https://mn.gov/commerce-stat/pdfs/commercial-dryer-retrofit.pdf
You know the sort; Mrs. Nora Neat who has her ways with laundromats and won't be told. If she wants to load up a dryer with excess time and thus money to bake her wash to a crisp no one is going to tell her otherwise.
Thus owners of mats often have to do extensive education explaining how dryers with moisture sensors work. Even then you're going to get a percentage of customers moaning their wash isn't dry to their standards.
https://cleaningandlaundryequipment.com/benefits-of-opt-moisture-sensors/
https://mn.gov/commerce-stat/pdfs/commercial-dryer-retrofit.pdf
A machine which spins slow due to the lack of electronics, error codes, or suspension, is worth it alone IMO.
Most older FLs regardless of the type or brand spun at relatively low RPMs.
Most older FLs regardless of the type or brand spun at relatively low RPMs.
Excluding what there was of American front loaders by 1980's or so such machines in Europe had final spin speeds between 800 to 1100 rpms.
OOB systems varied; my Miele W1070 will attempt some sort of balancing before spinning, but once that timer moves over to "spin" that is what will happen. If load is not balanced am here to tell you that washer will bang, clang and even move from drum movements. Successive Miele models developed systems where if OOB was detected washer would abort spin. Then either attempt to redistribute load and try again or whatever.
Changes in OOB controls for front loaders came part and parcel with sophisticated computer systems that allowed greater control of motor and drum movements/rhythms.
My older Miele washer has two spin speeds; 900 and 1100, and only two drum rhythms. Latter is regular tumbling (clockwise for "X", pause, counter clockwise for "Y", pause, etc... Then there is distribution which is used while machine drains, before spinning, and for "gentle/wool/delicates". These latter cycles are just extended versions of regular tumble rotations.
OTOH the more modern AEG washers have various drum rhythms suited for wide range of fabrics. Machine also has far more control of motor and drum so in conjunction with feedback can cope with OOB loads either before they start, attempt to repair situation if it has occurred, or maybe spin at slower speed than selected if at all.
One downside to this (depending upon how one looks at things) is since modern front loaders by and large are designed to avoid badly OOB loads they aren't often as ruggedly built.
My older Miele is built to last! The AEG washer has far thinner metal outer cases, less robust shocks,
My newer model AEG Lavamat toplader would never spin like this; it's just not going to happen.
My AEG Lavamat front loader won't likely spin like this as well:
It might do this however. You can see this Miele washer is really trying to get that load of single bath towel within proper parameters so it can start spinning.
OOB systems varied; my Miele W1070 will attempt some sort of balancing before spinning, but once that timer moves over to "spin" that is what will happen. If load is not balanced am here to tell you that washer will bang, clang and even move from drum movements. Successive Miele models developed systems where if OOB was detected washer would abort spin. Then either attempt to redistribute load and try again or whatever.
Changes in OOB controls for front loaders came part and parcel with sophisticated computer systems that allowed greater control of motor and drum movements/rhythms.
My older Miele washer has two spin speeds; 900 and 1100, and only two drum rhythms. Latter is regular tumbling (clockwise for "X", pause, counter clockwise for "Y", pause, etc... Then there is distribution which is used while machine drains, before spinning, and for "gentle/wool/delicates". These latter cycles are just extended versions of regular tumble rotations.
OTOH the more modern AEG washers have various drum rhythms suited for wide range of fabrics. Machine also has far more control of motor and drum so in conjunction with feedback can cope with OOB loads either before they start, attempt to repair situation if it has occurred, or maybe spin at slower speed than selected if at all.
One downside to this (depending upon how one looks at things) is since modern front loaders by and large are designed to avoid badly OOB loads they aren't often as ruggedly built.
My older Miele is built to last! The AEG washer has far thinner metal outer cases, less robust shocks,
My newer model AEG Lavamat toplader would never spin like this; it's just not going to happen.
My AEG Lavamat front loader won't likely spin like this as well:
It might do this however. You can see this Miele washer is really trying to get that load of single bath towel within proper parameters so it can start spinning.
Another thing;
High rpm spin speeds for both domestic top or front loading washers wasn't huge deal in USA (or much of Europe for that matter) historically.
In USA no one bothered because it was assumed people just bunged things into dryers where all that water would be baked out. Europe sort of same but less so since hanging things up to dry/line drying is or was still big.
Then came push to save resources (energy) and thus washers got faster spin speeds.
https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machine-spin-speeds/
High rpm spin speeds for both domestic top or front loading washers wasn't huge deal in USA (or much of Europe for that matter) historically.
In USA no one bothered because it was assumed people just bunged things into dryers where all that water would be baked out. Europe sort of same but less so since hanging things up to dry/line drying is or was still big.
Then came push to save resources (energy) and thus washers got faster spin speeds.
https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machine-spin-speeds/
maytagneptune
Well-known member
@launderess
What do you mean I'm getting closer? You mean that I am thinking more for a proper installation. The way I am going to get water to the machine is that my laundry room is conveniently behind the back garage wall. To drain I'm going to dump the machine into a plastic tote that is the same size as the water capacity and use a submersible pump to quickly evacuate the water from the tote and send it down the drain. After I get the machine and before I set the anchors, I'll probably call Dexter again to verify that my floor is thick enough or for instructions on how to easily increase thickness.
What do you mean I'm getting closer? You mean that I am thinking more for a proper installation. The way I am going to get water to the machine is that my laundry room is conveniently behind the back garage wall. To drain I'm going to dump the machine into a plastic tote that is the same size as the water capacity and use a submersible pump to quickly evacuate the water from the tote and send it down the drain. After I get the machine and before I set the anchors, I'll probably call Dexter again to verify that my floor is thick enough or for instructions on how to easily increase thickness.
"You mean that I am thinking more for a proper installat
Yes, that is what one meant.
Having moved on from idea of installing at original location the next choice seems more doable thus you're one step closer.
Yes, that is what one meant.
Having moved on from idea of installing at original location the next choice seems more doable thus you're one step closer.
I have a question...
How are you going to get washer to "dump" water into a plastic tote or other container?
Have seen set ups where washers drained into a large bucket or other container, then submirsible pump sent water up and out into a sink to drain. But if washer doesn't have a pump gravity will only push water up but so high.
How are you going to get washer to "dump" water into a plastic tote or other container?
Have seen set ups where washers drained into a large bucket or other container, then submirsible pump sent water up and out into a sink to drain. But if washer doesn't have a pump gravity will only push water up but so high.
