Differences Between Speed Queen TL Series 9 and TC5000

[frigilux]

Having seen posts from AW members PinkPower4 and Ladd, along with input from many others in various threads/posts, I'd like to gather information related to the TC5000 and how it differs from the 2017 Series 9 in this thread.  Sort of a 'before and after the TR series disaster' look at the brand's toploader.

 

Interesting changes were made during Speed Queen's "lost year."

 

NORMAL ECO CYCLE:

 

In the video below, Eugene (lorainfurniture) runs a complete Normal Eco cycle on the TC5000 with the Heavy Soil option (there is no 'Heavy Duty' option as the title of the video suggests; we all know what he means).  The cycle does, indeed, run for 59+ minutes, and most of it is agitation. A heads-up about the new super-extended cycle was gleaned from a TC5000 cycle chart someone posted recently.  A video commenter states they clocked about 25 minutes of wash agitation. That is some serious wash time and will undoubtedly boost cleaning scores in the next CR test.

 

CR tests washers on the Normal cycle with the heaviest soil level option. They also test using an 8-lb. load, which shouldn't ding the score for 'gentleness to fabrics' too much.  However...if you stuff the TC5000's tub with a maximum-capacity load and let 'er rip on the Normal cycle coupled with the heavy soil option you may find yourself pulling a lot of shirt buttons from the bottom of the tub at the end of the cycle. And here’s why:  

 

 In default mode, the TC5000 fills to—what is on my Series 9–the 'medium' water level. After about 10 minutes of agitation, the machine stops and fills to the 'large' water level.  After a 5 minute soak, agitation continues until the spin/spray rinse protocol begins.

 

By contrast, the Series 9 fills to the selected water level (small; medium; large; ex large). I’m going to assume this potential problem is avoided by selecting the Deep Fill option when washing a big load on the Normal Cycle. 

 

Differences so far in the cycle:  

 

The Series 9 fills to the selected water level; score 1 for it. The TC5000, however, fills with the actual water temp selected.  The Series 9: If warm or hot water is selected, it fills with a few inches of warm water, then switches to cold for the remainder of the fill. Score 1 for the TC.

 

The Series 9 agitates for 6-14 (or so) minutes depending on the soil level selection.  The Magic Minute-like initial agitation with a more concentrated detergent solution on the TC5000 is great---although I wouldn't want a maximum-capacity load of clothes subjected to high speed agitation for that long before more water is added.

 

Spray Rinse Protocol:  The TC5000's (like the Series 9's), first spray rinse occurs when almost all the wash water has been spun from the tub.  Here's where things differ:  The TC5000 continues to spin and occasionally spray rinse without stopping until the final (high speed) spin begins.

 

The Series 9:  The spin stops momentarily at the same time it would if it was going to fill for a deep rinse. Then it kicks back into another slow spin. A spray rinse occurs immediately--which I like because the tub is still moving slowly; gives the water more of a chance to penetrate the load.  Toward the end of this '2nd spin' there's another spray rinse.  Spinning stops momentarily before proceeding to the final (high speed) spin. This last bit is the same as the TC 5000.

 



 

 

 

[this post was last edited: 9/15/2019-14:18]

 

[dylanmitchell]

The TC5/ TC500/ Classic/ AWN632SP116TW01 has knobs with electronic controls (not the old mechanical controls), 6 preset cycles, 4 temp selections, and a deep fill (not sure how it works vs full fill on 9 series) and 3-year warranty possibly 10-year warranty before Sept 30?

9 series has electronic controls, 9 preset cycles, 4 temp selections, full tub wash and rinse, and 2nd and 3rd rinse and if you select both you get 4 rinses (which is a ton of water use) and 5-year warranty. 8 series and mechanical models have few less options. I'd be happy with any of them but the 9 series has the most flexible set of options, the 5-year warranty, and was worth the extra $100 or so premium.

TC500WN is closer to 8 series but has knobs connecting to electronics controls and sells for a lot more at $1,029. 9 series and 8 series have push-button electronic controls and the 2017 models with knobs had mechanical controls. TC500WN doesn't have the water level selection options 2017 models had but does have a deep fill button.

The 9 series is the best one (and the one I own). The 8 series is also better than the TC500WN and has a few more features. 2017 mechanical models with mechanical timers and water level controls are also better than the TC500WN. But the TC500WN is the best washer you can buy new. I'd probably pick a new in box TC500WN with warranty over a used 2017 model.
[this post was last edited: 9/15/2019-17:26]

 

[mimon]

Better?

"The 8 series is also better than the TC500WN"

Really? Why? More than the water level selector?

Mind you, I have one and wouldn’t part with it for anything anyone is likely to give me for it, but I can’t definitively or qualitatively say why I feel its superior to SpeedQueen’s recent return to glory.

Back in the summer of 2017, the bearings crapped out in my 10 year old LG FL. I realize now that after 10 years I got the value I paid for, but I wasn’t quite receptive to that at the time the service tech told me what it would cost to repair. I vowed then I would find a machine... a machine like I remember growing up with, one that lasted so long that I feared never living down the shame if anyone ever saw me putting acid washed jeans into a teal 1968 KitchenAid washer. I wanted a machine that wouldn’t fail after only a decade over something so meager as “bearings”

The tech suggested Speed Queen. Given the substantial price, (single father) I figured I could wait for tax return time and pick one up in spring 2018. Thus began six odd months of sitting in random laundromats studying Speed Queen TL’s and others brands.

Thank God for this site... I had no idea what Speed Queen had in mind for 2018. When doing due diligence for my planned purchase, I came across the reports on the TR’s in this forum, Eugene’s videos (seriously, gratitude and respect for your sacrifice to integrity dude…) and the videos showing SQ removing negative reviews. Upon seeing and reading all this, I RAN to my local ma and pop appliance dealer (Plug: Cranes in Saginaw, MI). Given that it was early March 2018, I was ready to be told that I was out of luck. Yet against all odds, they still had one last AWN432 for sale. I happily snapped it up for just a little over $900 delivered.

Now, more than when I purchased it, I realize I have a “Grail” machine, one with qualities than can no longer be obtained. In mine, there is not one single ridiculously expensive circuit board. The durable controls are fully mechanical and easy to replace, no surge protector or prophylactic unplugging needed. There is no gimped agi-tub design, so I don’t have to pretend that I suddenly care more about how delicate my clothes are rather than whether my washing machine actually gets dirty clothes clean. (Be honest with yourselves, you know who you are…) A YouTube informed screw turn enabled me to fill the tub fully with, I believe, water as hot as I set my water heater. No lid lock, and a simple clothes pin returns me to the wild west days of being able to actually watch my washer...wash. Imagine the freedom of past days of glory that I enjoy.

My serial number resolves to a machine assembled in December 2017. I romantically envision that it was among the last machines, if not the very last, designed by “The Old” Speed Queen and lovingly assembled by workers that knew that it was the last they would assemble before the 2018...um, lets say, “models” were going to be adopted. (seriously, imagine knowing that your kids’ medical insurance was dependant on the people that designed the 2018 machines…)

So clearly, I’m receptive to the 2017 mechanical washer being superior to the newer 2019 models, but I lack any substantive and reproducible data.

 

[frigilux]

Update: Hopped over to CR online to see if they’d tested the TC5000 yet–checked a week or so ago and they hadn’t—and there it was!

Not surprisingly, the wash performance score increased to Very Good, only one of three agitator models receive that designation. Gentleness score was dinged by the greatly lengthened wash agitation. It received an overall score of 61.

What DID surprise me is that the three TR models zipped up the ranks. Washing performance rose from Poor to Fair. Looks like something must have been tweaked—cycle time, maybe? Increase in the number of quick-strokes during agitation?

The TR’s overall score ended up one point higher than the TC, which is mind-blowing. CR used to claim that wash performance was the most heavily-weighted score. The TC did much better in that area. However, the TC scored lower than the TR in Energy Efficiency, Gentleness and Noise.

I’ve never made a decision on an appliance purchase over 1 measly point at CR, but it will be interesting to see the reviews section if people buy the TR rather than the TC, despite its clobbering the transmissionless machine in wash performance.

 

[pinkpower4]

@mimon

Excellent post. I don't think I could have worded it any better. I also feel the AWN432 model is superior to the 2019 electronic ones, which have two control boards and less features. You will not convince me THIS is better than a mechanical timer or ATC sensors (SQ does not have these) that are there for no other real purpose other than to say energy regardless of the costs to our landfills, waterways, and pocket books.

I am also a single parent who struggles just to make ends meet. However, I believe in paying extra for quality (I also use my tax refunds. SQ forgets people like us having purchasing power too.) And I buy a washer because I want clean clothes! My personal opinion is the TC5 is the better overall choice of the ones available for sale today if price is not a factor. The deal breaker for me was the TC5 was priced higher and included more unnecessary electronics with less features than the "classic" model (AWN432) it replaced.

Speed Queen continues to focus on their TR series, which may work for people who need to wash office wear only. I have some difficulty seeing, but I am not blind. I think it is just wrong not to mention that the TR series works well for office professional wear but not as well as other models for other types of loads. I always try to remember to mention the Normal "Eco" quirk with the MT575 because I know that is a deal breaker but so is a washer that can't wash outdoor, sports, gym, pet items, kids clothing, etc. too. Speed Queen is missing out on a huge potential market by excluding people like me that wash other types of laundry with marketing decisions and pricing structures/dealer tactics like this.

I pondered each response over the last few days while I kept looking. In the most unlikely of places I found where I still may be able to get the TC5 for a reasonable price delivered, but I am going to pass. In the end,it is not what I really wanted, which was the mechanical AWN432. Thanks to those who took the time to share why I may want to consider it. Thanks to those who kept me grounded to remind me that these tests on the Maytag mvwp575gw were extreme. The bottom line is I have something that is working well for me with cleaning performance that is second to none. I realized even with both sitting side by side in my laundry room, I would still use the MT575 for the reasons I love it now. I'm with Eddie on this one. He reminded me that we have to purchase the best washer that fits our needs, budget, and personal considerations. Yes, I am taking an educated guess for me that means three MTs versus two SQs. I doubt we will be out much if any more money. The electronics, bearings, and seals will likely be issues that will cause people to replace even those around 15-years. Who knows what will be available in the future, but I can decide then (but at least I have over three years of warranty left). I realized I have turned into a washer junkie too and learned how to use them much better now.

One thing I know is Speed Queen is going to sink or swim with these new regulations. If their only plan is to go forward with the TR series with a poor rating, then I think the 10-yr. warranties won't be of much use. OR they will find a way to turn the lemon government regulations into lemonade. Bring back the AWN432 true "Classic". Build it, and they will come. Unlike other companies, aren't washers all Speed Queen does? So they have to do it right. That is what sets them aparts in a Walmart-type world.

 

[pinkpower4]

Electronic Models

I realize some prefer electronics. I just think the should add value the extra cost. The TR3 and 5 and TC5 don't even have a time remaining indicator. Being techy (and having some difficulty hearing), the option to connect the washer to my phone is appealing. I can be notified of the status even if I am not able to hear it. Plus, I may be able to program my favorite cycle.

Wish they could bring back the true classic (the one I would still get) and improve the electronic models too including wash action (TR series) . They already have the reputation for durability.

 

[dylanmitchell]

All of these the TC5, 8 series, 9 series, and AWN432 are great washers. I like the features of the 9 series, and some prefer the mechanical controls of the AWN432. TC5 costs more than it should but I'd still buy it over the Maytag MVWP575GW. Also, like the Speed Queen FL FR7002WN, but it's $1,889.00 and at 3.5 cu ft. small for an FL.

8 series main advantages over the TC5 is water level selector (which may no longer be permitted due to new DOE regs) that it sold for $899, count down timer, and push-button electronic controls (which may be a minus to some).

Very similar specs too.

8 series vs TC5

Width - 25 5/8 in same
Depth - 28 in same
Height - in 43 in vs 42-3/4 in basically the same
Capacity – 3.3 cu ft vs 3.2 cu ft basically the same
Approx. Shipping Weight - lb 195 (not listed for TC5)
Cost $899 vs $1029 for TC5

 

[thomasward00]

SQ's focus us the TR series

The TC series will be gone within a few years, the TR will be tweaked over the coming years. The TC was made to quiet the internet crybabies.

 

[frigilux]

Do you mean the internet crybabies who protested a washer that couldn’t clean its way out of a paper bag?

 

[thomasward00]

I know 2 other people

When my old kenmore died, my friend actually recommended SQ, I know 2 other people that have TR series washers, no one has complained about cleaning issues, I don't know what people are trying to wash...

 

[frigilux]

There are any number of knowledgeable people washing real-world loads of medium-to-heavy soil on the TR’s Heavy Duty cycle in warm water with high-performing detergents. When they pull items out of the machine at the end of the cycle, many are still soiled/stained.

Both professional testing organizations and reputable people using the washer in consumer applications
find the same thing: The machine demonstrates poor washing performance in all but the lightest-soil conditions. It struggles to clean fabrics that are relatively stiff (jeans, for instance) and large articles.

I purchased a Series 9 pair for myself and one for my sister in the summer of 2017. Last year, the neighbor who lives in the condo above hers purchased a Speed Queen set on my sister’s recommendation. The woman was very disappointed, complaining that it did not clean well. The washer is a TR7. My sister had no idea the machine had been redesigned and felt bad about making the recommendation. After all, she’s very pleased with her Series 9.

[this post was last edited: 9/17/2019-04:52]

 

[combo52]

SQ TR Top Load Washers

Have been a resounding sales failure do to poor cleaning performance and no amount of cycle tweaking will solve a bad mechanical design, not only is cleaning poor it uses WAY too much water, detergent and hot water for what it does.

 

I will bet that SQ is working on design changes.

 

3.5 CF for a HD front load washer is big enough for any home use, it will easily wash the biggest thickest bedding etc.

 

I would guess that the TC TL design will stick around till a redesign of the TR models is out and running.

 

John 

 

[pinkpower4]

The TR series and more from a consumer perspective

The 2019 TR series seems to have a better wash action. I believe they did tweak the programming some. I like the idea of less moving parts.

The TR series design is like a front load turned upright. It reminds me of a carnival ride like the tilt-a-whirl or scrambler. The people in the seat tend to move together as a group without much space between them. Have you ever been the person on the end feeling squished? It looks like this is what also happens to the clothes as they are reversed forward and back with this type of wash action. This is why *I* think the results are not as good when a full load is washed. Is it a mechanical vs. electronic thing? I don't know.

With that said, I wonder what would happen if it there was one cycle where the agitator moved even faster with a back and forth action. I saw some videos of the old wringer washers. Only the paddle moves (the tub seems stationery on the ones I saw) in them but very briskly. The clothes seems to come out very clean in them.

Once the TC5 came out, those loyal to Speed Queen were a lot more critical of the Tag575 when they had favored it over the TR series. I now felt in the middle of a sea of "Sharkies". But seriously, I took the time to find out why. I now a better informed consumer and more careful in how I use the machine because of the very valuable feedback I received mostly in regard to the suspension and VMW design. It is after much deliberation, I realize I cannot afford to replace a machine that is working well for us and has three more years of warranty but cross that bridge when I come to it later.

However, I know some more important things to look for now with my next purchase, and I share this information with others (the good, bad, and ugly so they can make the best choice for them).

If I was without a washer, I would go with the TC5 now especially with the 10-yr. warranty. If not an option, the Tag575 is a good compromise. If these two not options for whatever reason, it looks like the Roper RTW4516FW2 is a rare gem in the big box stores.

If it wasn't for Speed Queen, Maytag never would have been pushed to build something better a better top load than the low build quality pushed at the big box stores that do not have enough water, cheaply made, poor wash action, and are considered disposable.

I hope Speed Queen swims (instead of sinks with these ridiculous regulations). I now know somewhere I can purchase my next washer through, and I can get it locally--no worries about transit damage or warranties. Really, I am sincerely grateful for all the help received here.

 

[mimon]

Sounds like a reputation bet

thomasward00
"The TC series will be gone within a few years, the TR will be tweaked over the coming years. The TC was made to quiet the internet crybabies."

Tell you what thomasward00, if Speed Queen actually sticks with the TR with the agitator affixed to the tub, and it outlasts the TC's over the long haul, we'll all agree that you're right and we're all crybabies.

On the other hand, if Speed Queen:

1: Sticks with the TC's and quietly phases out the TR's

2: Modifies the TR's to allow for an independent agitator, thereby functionally making a new model in the old style

3: Releases a new model with independent agitator that quietly replaces the TR

Then any of these would be a tacit but indisputable acknowledgement that the TR is a failed design, whereupon we would all be right. As would Consumer Reports. And Lorain Furniture. And CNET.

And you would be a know-nothing fanboy.

Here's to seeing if Speed Queen makes you a fool.

 

[thomasward00]

Such hostility over washing machines

When my old machine died, I was actually researching front loaders for a more gentle wash action, I'm an engineer and the wife is a teacher so we don't have ultra dirty laundry. We spend a good bit on our clothing, 40% of my laundry is on the gentle cycle. My main concern was long term durability of the machine.

 

[thomasward00]

The old school wash action will not be around forever

Future EPA regulations will only become tighter and the old school wash action won't be able to meet them. Autofill and more electronic control will be needed and the TC wont be able to do that. Everything may become front load in the future due to water regulations.
Love it or hate it, old school won't cut it for any future washing machine.

 

[DADoES]

 
There have already been washers with separately-moving agitators, old-school wash action with auto-sensed fill levels both with electronic control (far back as the late 1990s) and without (early/mid 2000s).

 

[brisnat81]

As I’ve said before, F&P managed to build a gearbox free washer in the 80s.

Essentially two shafts with a single pulley and a motor that has precise speed control.

As long as the motor turns the pulley less than 300 degrees, the machine agitates.
Go past 300 degrees and the agitate and spin shafts lock together and it spins.

No gearbox, nothing complex.

See Chestermikes video for an example of what was possible 35 years ago. You just need good electronic speed control

 

[pinkpower4]

Different strokes for different folks

If SQ does not offer a top load that has durability and cleaning performance in a top load for the majority of us, then I don't predict they will be able to compete at least in the residential market in the future. Their residential front loads are too high in price, and I don't believe they even have a built-in water heater (a must-have feature for me in a front load).

I don't see their commercial washers in the laundry mats in my area either.

The bottom line is we are all here for the same purpose. We can work together to help create a better product and help others make informed choices without product bashing or name calling. I had to sort out the brand loyal comments from the true concerns. The difference is the people with the true concerns took the time to explain what the potential issues were and real-world performance. And the original Sharkie was one of the first to help me understand this.

Those of us who have messy kids, enjoy outdoor sports, have to mow our own lawns, do our own repairs, like to work out of the gym, have family members that work technical trades, enjoy furry friends, and more need a different wash action than the TR series has. It is still not on my list to buy at any price with any warranty. I would rather buy a vmw again (first preference or take a look again at non SQ front loads) next time if the TC5 is not available because durability does our household no good if there is not cleaning performance to go with it.

SQ can combine the best of the TR with the TC5. I hope they do! I also hope other manufacturers improve the quality of their models too. The fact is not everyone can afford a $900+ for SQ "basic no frills" washer or there may be other reasons that SQ is not a choice.

Most of all, I wish I could just buy a Whirlpool set like I did twenty-five years ago and that the senseless regulations that only added to the initial cost of the machines, repair costs, dumped more chemicals in our waterways, added more to our landfills, and increased time and energy spent doing these tasks would just be repealed. Those manual twin tub washers with manual timers are starting to look pretty good to me.