Do you have a newer KA or Whirlpool DW?

[jerrod6]

Do you have a newer KA or Whilpool DW? If so I have a question. The owners manuals for these DWs say that during the wash the wash action will stop repeatedly. Can you describe this? How many times does it stop, and why does it do this?

 

[aldspinboy]

Jerrod it checks for the food particles and water dirtiness to see how long it will wash.
It also purges during the washing phase and adds water to the tub, as it's washing.
They say to clean the filter.
How are you... please E-mail me.
Bob ( appnut ) has this machine as well.. he should chime in on the washing ability which has been very good at my friends place.
The sensor will check this twice in the beginning and in the main wash.
The Kitchenaid has the same wash module only with a 4 way Hydrosweep wash arm.

Darren k.

 

[DADoES]

 
There's more to it than just soil sensing and purges. Some units will pause the pump for a moment and restart it during the main wash period to improve performance by generating a spray surge on the restarts.

 

[aldspinboy]

Thanks DaDoES your absolutely right... And there should be even more on the subject if one wants to get deeper in the design.
On the fast or speed wash program that i have observed this is the following...

1. It fills for the pre-rinse drains.

2. Fills for the main wash drops detergent washes for 7 or 10 min. Drains.

3. fills half full of water ( SPRAY PURGES ) Three to five times correct me if I'm wrong fellows ... which actually sounds cool when you hear it in a plastic tub you can hear the water droppings when it hits the tub when it stops.. Drains.
This also saves water for these energy star machines.

4. Fills full quick rinse..Drains.

5. Air dry

Darren k.
[this post was last edited: 6/26/2010-12:36]

 

[jerrod6]

Thanks for the replies so far. Not sure I quite understand how it checks for dirtiness if the unit is stopped though.
So does it stop in the middle of other phases besides just the wash?

The purge: it fills with water then sprays it and stops and repeats this 3 to 5 times with the same water, or does it fill with different water three to five times and spray it?

Interesting the way different machines accomplish the same task.

 

[mark_wpduet]

My 5.3 year old cheap Whirlpool dw has that wash arm and it pauses and restarts during the wash cycle/rinse cycle. I remember thinking something was wrong at first.

 

[appnut]

I have a Kenmo Elite bought about 2 or 3 years ago. Here are some concepts I've noticed, not sure exactly how mechanically it is accomplished. During the pre-wash fill, the pump turns on for about 10 second while it's filling. This is supposed to "condition" the tub. It finishes filling. Then the pump turns on and washes for about 2-3 minutes. During this time if there's significant food soil, I can hear it being ground up. Then there is about a 30 second pause. Supposedly a sensor sees how "mirky" the water is from food soil. then the pump turns on and washes again for about 3 minutes. During this time, there's a sensor which senses if there's some pressure on the pump (struggling), food soil has been collected. If ther is, then the filter will be purged/cleaned for a 5 or 7 second pump out (circulation pump and drian pump remember) and more water is being added for 5 seconds while it's being pumped out to clean the filter and then it continues to fill for 5 more seconds. If there's heavy soil, it will repeat this process during the 3 minutes one more time. This is also the point in the pre-wash that the turbo-zone jets will turn on at the back for this 3 minute period is selected option. Then there's another pause for more sensing and temp check. Then there's another wash for aobut 2 minutes and if the soil collecting chamber needs to be purgeed agtain it will repet the above-mentioned process once or twice. This is also the phasee where the TurboZone jets will turn off. the machine drains at the 9 minute mark. It begins filling for main wash at 11 minutes and begins washing at 13 minutes. At around 22 to 26 minutes in the cycle it will check to see if more food soil has been collected and purged again once or twice if needed. This does happen occassionally. It's extremely rare I end up with all 6 soil collection/filter clean purges. But it has happend to my amazement. The main wash can be anywhere from 53 to 77 minutes long. If the TurboZone has been selected, those jets will turn on at the back for about 15 or 16 minutes after the water has sufficient time to heat to around 140 degrees. during the main wash there will be several pauses. I tihink it's taking a reading on water temp and soil level of the water. when the pump turns on again, there's a large surge of water pressure which helps reach the corners in the top rack. This was a problem in the 1st generation of these WP tall tubs. Anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes prior to the wash water being drained, there is a peirod of 5 minutes whereby the water is being circulated for 45 seconds and pauses for 15 seconds. Again this is to improve coverage of uppera rack corners, especially with tall items. Then wash water is drained. Depending upon soil levge, the 1st rinse may be a purge of a partial fill (1 minutes) and circulation of 10 to 15 seconds wiwth the pump spritzing water over the dish load. If there was heavy soil or extra low water temp, then it will do a full first rinse. That's a 10 minute phase from start to final drain. Then it will fill for the 2nd (last) rinse. And heat water to 140 or 155 degrees, depending on options selected. also take note that if the prewash detects no soil level at all, it may pre-wash for only 5 minutes. Pause and then go into main wash. Or it may do the entire 9 minute prewash and then pause and go right into main wash. When this happens, the main wash is like 25 to 28 minutes long. This is called the low-energy cycle. That 1st rinse (purge with the 1 minute fill) is a 3 minute period whereby the pump circulates for about 10 secons and pauses for 20 seconds. This is done 6 times in those 3 minutes. (This drivews me nutes and is the primary reason why I never use the quick wash cycle (30 minute one described above by another poster). Jerrod, I hope this helps.

 

[jerrod6]

Thanks Appnut

WOW.

It seems like the stopping and starting is related to determining how much soil is in the load, cleaning the filter and also generating force to clean the upper arears. Sounds like it deteremines the length of the wash cycle by how many times it needs to clean the filter.

Do these DW have upper spray arms? I thought these had hard food disposers and not filters or is the filter that is being cleaned not one the consumer can get to? I am amazed at the different techniques used by manufactures but I can undersand how the stopping and starting would get on your nerves a bit.

Do you know how much water would be used in the cycle you described?

Thanks

 

[appnut]

I mentioned I can hear the food being ground up, does it all the time when needed. Yes hard particulate matter being ground up and collected helps determine cycle length and main wash water temperature. Yes there's a wash arm under the top rack. There's a little constant rinse thing on the top. I cn hear it spritzing the door when it's really giong. No yibblits. The maximum amount of water is just over 8 gallojs. A typical load is 6.8 r 6.9. Aj ejergy saver cycle oj smart wash results ij about 4.5 gallojs of water beijg used.

 

[aldspinboy]

I never use the Quick wash cycle ( 30 min one describe above

Bob you forgot my name lol...Geez

Bob i like the quick wash cycle for prep dishes or pre-washed or rinsed, lightly soiled or let's say after lunch dishes.
When i want to put something back in the cabinet wright away, i run that particular program i will have spaced dishes around six place settings in the bottom and a couple of bowl's and glasses so at Jhon's house which has the machine my friends and i got for him if i cook... he runs water on everything lol when stuff accumulates in the sink, and always he wants the main dishes ready for dinner thats why i use that program, plus i get to hear the machine twice with a heavier soiled load for later.

So when there done i open the door at let air dry for ten mins or so and towel dry the rest of the dishes off if water is still on them and put them away. The machine is so quit the off and on purges does not bother me at all kinda soothing if you like that kind of water noses ... plus it is another cycle that is different and i live for different cycling technics that machines can do the more the better...But also like a simple design and and a fast wash like a fast cycling KA or even better a sink impeller dishwasher that only washes in 10 and a half mins, which i dont have... but got the KA and someday will get hooked up when possible.
To many things on my plate right now unfortunately.

You are right about the constant rinse top sprayer... sometimes if the water is not up to temp you can hear the water spraying passing real slow near the control panel pretty cool sounding.

We have discussed this in a Bobload thread in 2007 when i first came on bored here as well as other members... now in the middle of the thread you gave me your certification that was the first one... then i did a second one later the next year on my whirlpool with the power clean wash system.

Also have you ever use the Soak & Scour on your machine.
If they call it that on the Kenmore that you have.
What do you think about it ?

Jerrod the pictures in the link should give you more of the look in the interior.

Bob, Jerrod members...
Here is the link
Darren k

[this post was last edited: 6/29/2010-17:33]

Anyone in the mood for a Bob Load Thread?

Seems like it's been a while so I'll start one. Not my best work but not bad for a quiet Sunday evening.

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[johnb300m]

yeah, but GE....

I think it's funny how GE was able to do all that stuff...sans the 'auto purge.'

GE's turbidity and temp sensors are able to do all that sensing on the fly without interrupting pumping.
Here's my theory,
Turbidity sensors (lights, lasers) used to sense soil/cloudiness of water are terribly thrown off by bubbles in the water.
GE puts their sensor off in a corner in the sump, where it's decently tranquil on full fill.
It's possible WP's craptastic horizontal module cannot seclude the turbidity sensor away from bubbles enough, so it may need to pause to take readings.

....then again, GE's horizontal module is still able to use just as little water, but have much more powerful spray for those corners....hmm....

GE's solution to the plugged filters is a little less scientific and under sever conditions, can have a negative effect. Their fine mesh filters are connected to the drain line, so when the filter clogs, and incoming pressure is great enough to overcome the drain loop, it will purge the filter that way. That's just in case the soil sensor doesn't trip a drain/refill though.

Gotta say, the auto purge is a cool idea. But I still like GE better.

--end engineer ramblings--

 

[logixx]

Miele's AutoSensor separates the bubbles from the water as is passes through the LED beam. Additionally, it also measures the size and amount of particles.

Our Bosch just takes the reading as the stream of water passes the light beam. It's pretty accurate, though and the cycles are quite adaptable. It can range from wash, rinse, rinse to pre-wash, wash, purge, rinse, purge, rinse. For max. soiled loads, it'll eliminate the purges and perform another full rinse. It will also select the appropriate spray pressure - sometimes even during the wash.

 

[mark_wpduet]

I can hear the food being ground up in mine at the beginning as well. Not always, depending on how dirty the dishes were. Here is a pic of the exterior and interior. This dishwasher is CHEAP but I have never had a problem with it (knock on wood)

 

[mark_wpduet]

Exterior

pic

 

[jerrod6]

I’ve have been using the Economy(energy save in other countries) program this week with Cascade Complete non phosphate powder . This program gives a main wash, two rinses and dry. Friday I washed a load containing items covered with gravy, cheese, and pasta. The cycle when started gave a run time of 1 hour 36 minutes. Later I walked into the kitchen about 30 minutes later and it was still in the wash with a run time of 1 hour 4 minutes. I drank a glass of water, looked at the machine again and the run time said 1 hour 16 minutes. I decided to stick around and see what would happen. The wash continued for about 17 more minutes. During the rinse phase it added an additional rinse so It rinsed 3 times instead of two. My user manual doesn’t indicate that this cycle will vary, but the machine must be using the soil sensor to modify the cycle like this. Everything came out clean and spotless.

Unfortunately there is no way to tell what the machine is doing or if it sensing unless you look at the time left display and see it adjusting the time up or down and this can occur without notice in any cycle phase,.... or stick around to see what the machine is going to do....and most folks aren't going to do that.