Dual turntables.

[whirlcool]

Actually it's the idler wheel that will need to be changed to a 60Hz model if you are converting from a 50Hz model. Most all Dual turntables are voltage switchable. Some models have a voltage switch while other models just have you swap a wire or two on the start switch. The method to be used for any one Dual turntable is detailed in that model's Service Manual, of which are readily available on the internet.

And if it's a belt drive turntable that is to be voltage converted, a new drive pulley for 60hz will be needed. These are still available from some suppliers.

 

[arbilab]

Now whirly, read that first sentence again. There's a reason they call it "idler". Because a single-wheel idler has nothing to do with the ultimate speed. The motor spindle changes between 50 and 60.

Good old Dual. As good as it needed to be to be great without costing that much. Without looking I think mine is 505. Manual start, auto lift and shutoff. Very good arm suspension, capable of the best cartridges (Shure V15-IV). I actually managed to wear out a V15 stylus. Empire saved it with a replacement, though not identical. Shure no longer supports most of their cartridge line, only a few 'deejay' models.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Shure no longer supports most of their cartridge line, only a few 'deejay' models.

Not surprising. The cartridge line itself is a shadow of what it used to be.

Past stylus availability, there has been some criticism that the replacement styli for some older models are not as good as the original was.

There are still various after market styli. Quality is probably variable, but lpgear.com carries some made by Jico that should be pretty good. I have no experience with Jico, but they have a good reputation. Some people feel that the current Shure M97xE performs better with the best Jico stylus than it does the actual Shure M97 stylus.

 

[yogitunes]

I found one at a thrift store...had to have it....what I like for this one is its multi purpose, single player or changer

 

[whirlcool]

RickB:

No, on Dual turntables the spindle does actually nothing. It is not connected to the motor in any way shape or form. The spindle(single) is only about 1/2" long and sits in a hole in the middle of the platter. It goes around and around with the platter but does not drive the platter at all. This is so you don't wear out the hole in your 33.3 records.

The idler wheel is directly connected to the motor shaft in Dual turntables. This was to reduce vibration. The idler wheel contacts the inside of the platter and drives the turntable in that manner.Dual's philosophy was to separate the platter and the motor with as much rubber damping material to reduce wow & flutter.

On belt drive Dual turntables the platter is driven by a belt that runs through a pulley that is connected to the motor. The spindle still doesn't have anything to do with driving the platter.

On changer Dual's the records are not dropped down to the platter, but ride down on prongs that act as an elevator to gently lower the record down to the platter.

The Shure V-15 III debuted as the standard cartridge for the Dual 701 cartridges.
I know the guy who runs LPGear. He's very nice and really into audio. He also carries pretty much the widest variety of replacement styli than anyone else I know. I have heard the same about the Jico cartridges. I use a Pickering XSV-3000 cartridge in my 701 and the replacement styli has been unavailable for years. The Jico replacement is just as good as the original. Jico also OEM's replacement styli for quite a number of cartridge manufacturers.

 

[philr]

The first new turntable that I bought when I was a kid was a 1228 in 1990! I had wished to find a 1229 but the store who still had plenty of new-in-box 1226 and 1228 didn't have any remaining 1229! With the Ortofon cartdrige, the 45 rpm adapter and the cartridge holder with a two position knob it did cost me over $200 which was quite a lot of money for me when I was 13 (and still today!). I liked to play stacks of 45 rpm records. I used it along with a $15 Pioneer SX-800 tube reciever that I got used for $15. I still have both but I harn't used them for years as the SX-800 needs service as it blew a capacitor and had a few other issues.

 

[arbilab]

Of course I didn't mean the platter spindle, but the motor one. I should have called it 'pulley'.

The 505 has some kind of voodoo motor that runs much slower than the expected 1800rpm a non-electronic induction motor runs. The belts lose their usability regularly.

What's most troubling is the deviation between 33 and 45 with the same pulley-spreader setting AND the fact that the spreader is also belt operated and the spreader belt is VERY expensive.

 

[whirlcool]

And when you try to restart the 1228 you may have problems with it. What happens is that Dual recommended a clean and relubrication every three years on most models of their turntables. Most owners never performed this service. What happens is that the original lubricants dry out, become hard and then parts that are supposed to move freely stop doing so. What happens is that the turntable won't turn, the speed is off, the start switch is jammed, or any combination there or.

We have a lubrication section on the Dual-Reference.com website that discusses this issue. If you are even slightly mechanical you can do the job yourself. It's boring and tedious but it can be done. I have also listed replacement lubricants that you can use that last longer than the originals and won't dry out and solidify on you. I have these listed on the website too.

You can also send out your turntable to have this done for you. The cost is around $200 and 95% of that cost is labor.

Usually owners know this has happened to their turntable when they try to put it back in service after being in storage for several years.

 

[whirlcool]

A shameless plug

Bill Neumann of "fix My Dual" has replacement bases for Dual turntables. Most of the bases that came with the 1219, 1229, etc. were made of chip board covered with a veneer. Over time moisture has migrated into these bases and a lot of them are coming apart.

The bases Bill makes are custom fit and are available in several different finishes. They are made from solid walnut. I bought one for my 701 a few years back and it really surprised me how much it damped vibration on the 701, not that it had much in the first place. These bases are a work of art and I think he was only charging $75-$100 each for them, which is a deal for what they are.

http://www.fixmydual.com

 

[lordkenmore]

replacement bases for Dual turntables

Those look like nice bases!

Another thing that might be interesting to try for one of the idler wheel designs is making a base using as solid a base as possible, and making it fairly heavy. This is--or was a few years ago--a preferred approach for other idler wheel turntables.

 

[lordkenmore]

preferred approach for other idler wheel turntables

Then, again, maybe not. These people take a different approach for the Garrard... I suppose it's a case of "to each their own."

http://www.garrard501.com/faq.html#plinth

 

[tolivac]

Dual TT-have one in one of my closets that I bought at a yard sale for a couple bucks.The units arm mechanism is froze up.It is a single play unit-not a changer.Forget the model# offhand.This thread may inspire me to drag it out and take a closer look.The last time I did look at it-indeed the motor lived up to the units name---You could strap the windings to run off 120/240V.
Garrad 301 TT Very rarely these show up in small radio stations-regional 1Kw AM and small FM stations.Just replace them with something newer.
TT bases-Broadcast studio TT bases have a large cabinet that you can put bricks,cinder blocks or bags of lead shot to weight them and dampen them.Or the weight of equipment put in the TT base does the job-TT preamps,CD and cassette players.The TT bases usually have a small 19" rack mount in them.
Another strange thing that can happen in AM stations--if the TT has a bad idler wheel causing rumble or WF-that can trip the AM transmitter modulator OL relays.

 

[whirlcool]

Rex:

It sounds like the old dried out lubrication issue with your turntable. It's important not to "help things along" when trying to operate it. When the turntable operation stiffens up and people do this, parts could break. And depending on the model you have the parts that break may or may not be unobtainium. This is especially true for the 1000 series turntable.

Dual made a rugged product, but they do require maintenance from time to time.

 

[lordkenmore]

Dual made a rugged product, but they do require maintenance

Not unreasonable. Especially in the case of a 40+ year old Dual that has been in storage since Carter left office.

I've seen the issue of lubrication gumming up a time or two. First time was on a PE (which might have been made after Dual absorbed them). The motor absolutely refused to turn. A good oiling and it ran smoothly.

Second time was on a BIC. (Side note: there was apparently a joke that BIC stood for "But It's Cheap.") The platter was totally frozen on that one. I have no idea why it was frozen, but I later learned that it was more than likely the lubrication gumming up and freezing.

Another thought: there is something to be said for something that can be lubricated. A sealed motor that is oiled for life is convenient, but if it reaches the point where the oil gums up, well, it's not a cleaning/oiling, it's a whole new motor...

 

[lordkenmore]

One thing I've been wondering is how well the Dual 10" or so platters work with the beginning of 12" LPs. It seems like the LP could possibly sag slightly on the outside. Not perhaps much of an issue back in the 1960s, but certainly one with more modern, thinner LPs.

 

[whirlcool]

Most Dual motors can be disassembled so that they can be cleaned and lubricated. They are quiet too. If they make any noise at all they need a lubrication.

You are correct, P&E was a competitor of Dual. Dual eventually bought them and continued to make turntables under the P+E name. They are very similar to Dual turnables. Dual and P+E both made turntables for use in systems made by Grundig, Telefunken, Saba and even Sony for awhile. On the Dual Reference Website there is the complete history of Dual from the beginning in 1900 to the end in 2001.

The 10" platter on Dual turntables is no problem for 33rpm records. The tonearm is so light that it doesn't bother the record at all. Because of the philosophy of a low mass tonearm moving coil cartridges don't work well on Dual turntables. MC cartridges prefer a little more mass than the Dual turntable arm offers.

 

[lordkenmore]

Interesting history.

I noticed this 1987 event:

"Perpetuum-Ebner (P+E) (whose turntable business was previously bought out by DUAL) buys DUAL from Thompson Grand Public, of Paris."

Interesting how that happens sometimes.

 

[tolivac]

Allen-can go along with you there-old lube mixed with dust and dirt.Will have to give it the same treatment that I do to radio station TT's take part-clean and lube as good as you can.Have taken apart TT motors for lubing-usually TT motors are pretty simple to service-just haven't gotten to it.Just thought it striking to find a Dual TT at a yard sale for a couple bucks.Beleive it is a 1000 series machine-and single play one.My first Hi-Fi system had a standalone PE turntable.Was a nice machine-it got lost in the Rapid City SD flood of '72.The rest of the Hi-fi setup was a Scott LK48 amp and a pair of Karlsen speaker cabinets with Philips drivers.It sounded rather good.The bass response of that Scott amp was pretty good for only 24W perchannel.It had HUGE output transformers in its output stages!So miss that amp-would like another.

 

[whirlcool]

When you are ready to clean and relube that turntable let me know, I'll send you the Service Manual for the unit which shows what the lubrication points are.

Be careful when lubricating a Dual turntable. Some parts actually use friction to operate and if you lube or oil the wrong part the turntable won't operate properly. Dual used specific lubricants in specific places on the turntable. The Service Manual outlines what goes where.

As for the history, P+E earlier was bought from Dual by Thomson earlier and then bought Dual from Thomson Electronics of France.They didn't hold on to it very long before they sold it to Schneider of Germany. When Schneider of Germany went bankrupt, they took Dual with them. The company was then out of business. Before the Thomson deal Dual was owned by Ortofon, the cartridge manufacturer.

The history of Dual as I have it listed was taken directly from the last Dual of Germany's website before it was taken down in 2001.

 

[tolivac]

That is too bad Dual went down--such fine TT's!!!Dealt with Thomson out here-two of our transmitter had to get parts and tubes thru them.Now it is under a diffrent company-offhand forgot the name.Will let you know when I dig the TT out and can find its model#.Thanks for the help!Good to have stumbled onto a Dual TT man!Then I can have an extra TT.Have several Technics TT's from a radio station -like the Duals better.