Dual turntables.

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cfz2882

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anyone use or like Dual turntables? My main turntable is a Dual:a model 1229 from 1972-it's a wheel drive,but a pretty good one,features:
-very heavy metal alloy platter
-4pole motor with pemanent magnet syncronizer ring
-neon strobe(mine"silvered up"and dim)
a friend has a ~1975 era dual that is belt drive,but i don't know what kind of motor it has.
 
One of these days I hope to get a Dual changer running. I can't remember the model, but it's part of the 10 series. I'm thinking 1015, but don't quote me. I won't be using it as a changer, but as a single play turntable for 78s.
 
Dual Turntable are awesome! 

I have quite a few 1229's and a few others that I can't recall their model numbers. 

I quit using them when I started to find high end Linear Turntables.

All of them have wood bases and the original tops. 

I need to get them out and sell them to someone who could get them up to specs.

They truly are amazingly well built units. All of the Dual line.  Even what was considered "El Cheapo" during the time was very good.

B
 
If you are going to sell your Dual turntables, contact Bill Neumann of FixMyDual.com. He is an expert Dual repair tech and refurbishes Dual turntables and I believe he buys them from people too. He's a nice guy to top it off. I bought my Dual 701 from him and it looks like it just left the factory it was that clean.
 
I loved my Dual changer

I used it for years until it was damaged in a basement flood.
Great quality and "can't kill" designs.
I'm glad to know Whirlcool hosts a Dual website.
I spin my vinyl virtually everynight...
 
I had a DUAL back in the 1980's....

....that I purchased for the sole purpose of being able to play a stack of records on my "high-end" stereo system (well - it was all Pioneer!). I also had a Pioneer single play turntable at the time - both hooked up to my Pioneer SX980 receiver (imagine - it had TWO phono inputs!).
I don't have a good pic of it but here is a pic from the brochure.
There were not too many "audiophile" quality record changers available back then.
I now have a Technics turntable and have "digitized" all my vinyl so it's in iTunes now. MUCH more convenient - BUT I still have the albums just in case I want to read the jackets or play them in "original quality".

philcobendixduo-2015012515335903157_1.jpg
 
Duals were great...

at least up to the '80s, anyhow. Seems like everything audio-electronic got cheaper then. Bought a 1009 around '67/8 and used it until we went over to Thorens and Empires in the mid '70s. Came across a mint 1019 about 10 yrs ago and gave it to my son, who still has it. I can recall driving past the Dual factory somewhere in southern Germany around 1976 or so, in a very picturesque area.
 
>up to the '80s, anyhow. Seems like everything audio-electronic got cheaper then.

It does seem that way.

Dual did maintain some quality, unlike other some other companies. At least on some of their models. One model was very popular in England among impoverished audiophiles. I think it was the CS 505.

In the US, the CS 5000 was hot in the mid 1980s.

One of my regrets was someone sold a CS 5000 dirt cheap through local classifieds. It was new, or very newly new IIRC. At the time, I think I was in between systems. I had different aspirations, but I now wish I'd bought the Dual. It would have helped accelerate the day of getting an audio system. (For that matter, I had an old console unit that I could have used with the Dual to play records.) Perhaps the Dual would have been all the turntable I'd have needed. Also it had a 78 RPM speed, which, even at that time, was of interest. But...I passed, thinking I'd rather have something else. If I wanted to play 78s, I reasoned, I could probably find a Dual CS5000 later on. I could find it later, but I've never seen one for sale cheap since that time.
 
Certain Dual models like the 701, 1229, 1219, CS5000, CS7000(if you can find one) all go for much more than they were sold for new. A CS5000 in excellent condition will set you back around $400.

What Dual was known for was delivering a turntable that gave generally good performance for a price most people could afford. Some models were very good, some were very crappy. The 1970's wood base models are the most popular.

The biggest thing that goes wrong with Dual turntables is that over time the lubricants used on the turntables age and dry out. Then the mechanism of the turntable starts to "stick". The owner then "helps it long" and eventually something may break. And parts for some series, like the 1000 series are unobtainium. The 1200 series parts are getting harder for find.
The way to prevent this from happening to your turntable is to either clean and lubricate it yourself about once every 3-5 years, or have it done at a shop that does that kind of work($200). The lubricants used today last a lot longer than the stuff Dual used long ago.

Yes, the Dual factory was in der Schwartzwald, or Black Forest in St. Georgen, Germany. The former factory is now partially a Dual museum and a trade school.
 
IIRC my first component turntable was a 1229 when I was in high school, I mowed lawns to pay for that thing! It was a nice turntable even being Dual's BOL and never gave me any trouble. Ultimately it was sold to someone in my dorm at university and replaced with a belt drive Setton, my reasoning being that I never used the changer function and so a single play turntable would likely last longer. I still have the Setton so in a way that worked out.
 
Same Here

I cannot add anything to list of praise for the Dual decks, solid well built reliable (with the occasional service), the 701 was legendary when introduced over here in the UK, the 501 became the PL-12D of the 80s.

Just sit back and enjoy the sound

Gary
 
Even though Dual was known for their turntables, they made a complete line of audio equipment as well over the years. In Europe they were known also for their compact systems, turntables, receiver all in one unit. These were never sold here in the U.S. The link leads to a 1988 Dual Complete Product Line catalog.

In fact Dual products were sold all over the world in more than 80 countries at one time! In the U.S. they sold turntables, tuners and cassette decks even though turntable sales far exceeded any other audio devices they sold here.

The Dual-Reference website at this time has about 600 pages to it, and it's heavy on what was sold in the U.S. One of these years I'll get around to adding more info to it. But the turntable section is pretty complete.

What got me started on the Dual website was that in 1996 I bought a Dual CS528 on Ebay in mint condition. I looked on the Internet for info about Dual and they still had a website, but was very limited in what they covered. I have a friend that had a stereo repair shop and he had most all of the service manuals for Dual turntables. I initially thought, well Dual maybe sold what about 10 models of turntables here in the U.S.? Boy was I wrong! And this is what lead me to start the Dual-Reference website.

There was a company in Toronto called All In One Electronics that had the largest inventory or Dual spare parts in the world. But they shut down in 2011 or so. Since then spare parts for Dual have become tougher to find.

http://www.dual-reference.com/Adverts/b1pg1.pdf
 
>In Europe they were known also for their compact systems, turntables, receiver all in one unit.

Does anyone know how good these compact systems were? I assume they must have been better than the compact systems that I've seen in the US from many different companies, all of which were the rock bottom grade audio equipment.

Too bad they weren't sold here. It could be an interesting second system.

>The link leads to a 1988 Dual Complete Product Line catalog.

Interesting looking through that!

I briefly had one model listed in the last 5 years: the CS-431. The rock bottom. "This semi-automatic Hi-Fi turntable with automatic tonearm return makes music an experience." Err...it wasn't much of an experience for me. Although it didn't sound completely terrible. Plus it was probably dirt cheap new, and the competition was probably entirely Japanese "Plastic decks."
 
I have a 1229, currently fitted with an Audio Technica 440ML cartridge. It plays very well, sounds great, and the automatic functions still work fine. One small issue is that it sometimes makes a very faint thumping sound when rotating, which I was told was most likely due to the strobe paper underneath coming loose and rubbing against something, but I haven't gotten around to investigating it.

Still very pleased with it. It works better than the Garrard Zero 100 I also have and like, although the Dual tracks better, notwithstanding the zero tracking error mumbo jumbo touted for the Garrard (which I still think is a cool gadget that looks fantastic).
 
As for the paper coming off the bottom of the platter.... easy fix. Just remove the platter and see where the paper is loose at on the underside and reglue it/tape it back in place.

It could be the idler wheel has a flat spot on it. No problem, there is a guy in Michigan I think that will completely rerubber your idler wheel and it will perform like new again. One problem with the idler wheel drives on some of the Dual's is that the rubber gets hard and may ever crack. New idler wheels are almost impossible to find. This guy in Michigan will rerubber your idler wheel like new for about $35. or so. I've heard from a lot of people who have done this and he does a spectacular job on them.
 
Here is link to the brochure which covers Dual's compact stereo line. From what I understand they were great sellers. I certainly do get a lot of questions about them. They used normal Dual turntables on them. The brochure has quite a bit of detail about the specs they had.

These may or may not have been sold in Canada. I know they were never sold here in the U.S.

http://www.dual-reference.com/Adverts/1975-2.pdf
 
Thanks for the brochure link!

The fact that they used regular Dual turntables could make it possible to even pick up one of those systems in Europe, and convert it to US power. The big issue usually seems to be motors, but if the turntable is one that existed in this market, a motor transplant (or even swapping the turntable) would be possible. Not sure how much interest I'd have, but one of those systems could be an interesting second system/conversation piece.
 
voltage conversion

IIRC,the motor in my 1229 has 4 wires and can be connected for 115 or 230-in any case current drawn by the motor is so low a small transformer could be used for voltage conversion.For a 50 hz wheel drive turntable,a 60 hz motor spindle will be needed for NA use.If turntable has an electronic controlled motor,only a simple voltage conversion will be needed :)
 
Actually it's the idler wheel that will need to be changed to a 60Hz model if you are converting from a 50Hz model. Most all Dual turntables are voltage switchable. Some models have a voltage switch while other models just have you swap a wire or two on the start switch. The method to be used for any one Dual turntable is detailed in that model's Service Manual, of which are readily available on the internet.

And if it's a belt drive turntable that is to be voltage converted, a new drive pulley for 60hz will be needed. These are still available from some suppliers.
 
Now whirly, read that first sentence again. There's a reason they call it "idler". Because a single-wheel idler has nothing to do with the ultimate speed. The motor spindle changes between 50 and 60.

Good old Dual. As good as it needed to be to be great without costing that much. Without looking I think mine is 505. Manual start, auto lift and shutoff. Very good arm suspension, capable of the best cartridges (Shure V15-IV). I actually managed to wear out a V15 stylus. Empire saved it with a replacement, though not identical. Shure no longer supports most of their cartridge line, only a few 'deejay' models.
 
>Shure no longer supports most of their cartridge line, only a few 'deejay' models.

Not surprising. The cartridge line itself is a shadow of what it used to be.

Past stylus availability, there has been some criticism that the replacement styli for some older models are not as good as the original was.

There are still various after market styli. Quality is probably variable, but lpgear.com carries some made by Jico that should be pretty good. I have no experience with Jico, but they have a good reputation. Some people feel that the current Shure M97xE performs better with the best Jico stylus than it does the actual Shure M97 stylus.
 
RickB:

No, on Dual turntables the spindle does actually nothing. It is not connected to the motor in any way shape or form. The spindle(single) is only about 1/2" long and sits in a hole in the middle of the platter. It goes around and around with the platter but does not drive the platter at all. This is so you don't wear out the hole in your 33.3 records.

The idler wheel is directly connected to the motor shaft in Dual turntables. This was to reduce vibration. The idler wheel contacts the inside of the platter and drives the turntable in that manner.Dual's philosophy was to separate the platter and the motor with as much rubber damping material to reduce wow & flutter.

On belt drive Dual turntables the platter is driven by a belt that runs through a pulley that is connected to the motor. The spindle still doesn't have anything to do with driving the platter.

On changer Dual's the records are not dropped down to the platter, but ride down on prongs that act as an elevator to gently lower the record down to the platter.

The Shure V-15 III debuted as the standard cartridge for the Dual 701 cartridges.
I know the guy who runs LPGear. He's very nice and really into audio. He also carries pretty much the widest variety of replacement styli than anyone else I know. I have heard the same about the Jico cartridges. I use a Pickering XSV-3000 cartridge in my 701 and the replacement styli has been unavailable for years. The Jico replacement is just as good as the original. Jico also OEM's replacement styli for quite a number of cartridge manufacturers.
 
The first new turntable that I bought when I was a kid was a 1228 in 1990! I had wished to find a 1229 but the store who still had plenty of new-in-box 1226 and 1228 didn't have any remaining 1229! With the Ortofon cartdrige, the 45 rpm adapter and the cartridge holder with a two position knob it did cost me over $200 which was quite a lot of money for me when I was 13 (and still today!). I liked to play stacks of 45 rpm records. I used it along with a $15 Pioneer SX-800 tube reciever that I got used for $15. I still have both but I harn't used them for years as the SX-800 needs service as it blew a capacitor and had a few other issues.
 
Of course I didn't mean the platter spindle, but the motor one. I should have called it 'pulley'.

The 505 has some kind of voodoo motor that runs much slower than the expected 1800rpm a non-electronic induction motor runs. The belts lose their usability regularly.

What's most troubling is the deviation between 33 and 45 with the same pulley-spreader setting AND the fact that the spreader is also belt operated and the spreader belt is VERY expensive.
 
And when you try to restart the 1228 you may have problems with it. What happens is that Dual recommended a clean and relubrication every three years on most models of their turntables. Most owners never performed this service. What happens is that the original lubricants dry out, become hard and then parts that are supposed to move freely stop doing so. What happens is that the turntable won't turn, the speed is off, the start switch is jammed, or any combination there or.

We have a lubrication section on the Dual-Reference.com website that discusses this issue. If you are even slightly mechanical you can do the job yourself. It's boring and tedious but it can be done. I have also listed replacement lubricants that you can use that last longer than the originals and won't dry out and solidify on you. I have these listed on the website too.

You can also send out your turntable to have this done for you. The cost is around $200 and 95% of that cost is labor.

Usually owners know this has happened to their turntable when they try to put it back in service after being in storage for several years.
 
A shameless plug

Bill Neumann of "fix My Dual" has replacement bases for Dual turntables. Most of the bases that came with the 1219, 1229, etc. were made of chip board covered with a veneer. Over time moisture has migrated into these bases and a lot of them are coming apart.

The bases Bill makes are custom fit and are available in several different finishes. They are made from solid walnut. I bought one for my 701 a few years back and it really surprised me how much it damped vibration on the 701, not that it had much in the first place. These bases are a work of art and I think he was only charging $75-$100 each for them, which is a deal for what they are.

http://www.fixmydual.com
 
replacement bases for Dual turntables

Those look like nice bases!

Another thing that might be interesting to try for one of the idler wheel designs is making a base using as solid a base as possible, and making it fairly heavy. This is--or was a few years ago--a preferred approach for other idler wheel turntables.
 

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