lasvegasrox
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 88
lets say i wanted to buy a washer from the uk and bring it back to america...how would i do that or would it be possible
eurr outlets
- Thread starter lasvegasrox
- Start date
panthera
Well-known member
possible, but a few things to know
How you hook it up depends on the age and nature of the washer.
The plumbing is no problem, Europeans, the UK and the US all use the same plumbing standards.
The electrical hook up is either going to be very easy or quite a problem to solve.
If the machine is 100% electrical and mechanical with no solid state electronics (no logic circuitry at all) then it probably can be hooked up to work with US 240V,Split Phase AC (the stuff you power your stove or dryer with). You will need to have it done by someone who knows what they are doing so there are no safety problems, but basically it is a very simple hook up.
If, however, the machine has solid-state logic (whether from the late 1970's or 2007), you will probably have to get some sort of converter in order to have it work correctly and not lose an expensive circuit.
The biggest cost in these converters is determined by whether they have to power heating elements or not. If you can do without them, that will drop the power needs from over 2,000Watts (could be over 3,500!) down below 1,000 watts.
Some vintage European machines can actually be set to run at 120V AC Single Phase. So give that a look at, too. Again, tho' - even a typical 13Amp/240V UK washer might be well over the limits of even a single branch 20Amp 120V US circuit unless the heating elements were downrated (lots of Philips machines and Miele were designed to make that possible. Some Hoover machines were also sold in the North American market so parts can probably be found.)
If you list the machine, I am sure someone here can tell you very quickly what needs doing to make it work happily.
Vintage UK machines were pretty cool.
How you hook it up depends on the age and nature of the washer.
The plumbing is no problem, Europeans, the UK and the US all use the same plumbing standards.
The electrical hook up is either going to be very easy or quite a problem to solve.
If the machine is 100% electrical and mechanical with no solid state electronics (no logic circuitry at all) then it probably can be hooked up to work with US 240V,Split Phase AC (the stuff you power your stove or dryer with). You will need to have it done by someone who knows what they are doing so there are no safety problems, but basically it is a very simple hook up.
If, however, the machine has solid-state logic (whether from the late 1970's or 2007), you will probably have to get some sort of converter in order to have it work correctly and not lose an expensive circuit.
The biggest cost in these converters is determined by whether they have to power heating elements or not. If you can do without them, that will drop the power needs from over 2,000Watts (could be over 3,500!) down below 1,000 watts.
Some vintage European machines can actually be set to run at 120V AC Single Phase. So give that a look at, too. Again, tho' - even a typical 13Amp/240V UK washer might be well over the limits of even a single branch 20Amp 120V US circuit unless the heating elements were downrated (lots of Philips machines and Miele were designed to make that possible. Some Hoover machines were also sold in the North American market so parts can probably be found.)
If you list the machine, I am sure someone here can tell you very quickly what needs doing to make it work happily.
Vintage UK machines were pretty cool.
I had a customer that was actually using a Miele canister vacuum with the electronic speed controll board that hey had bought while living on South Africa. They just put in 240V window A/C outlets and modified some kinf od extention cord so the vacuum can be plugged into one end, and the other ends fits the outlets. It was running fine for them, but the vacuums use pretty simple boards compared to some appliances.
brisnat81
Well-known member
Also to help with the power issue
Australian Machines are a maximum of 10amps or 2400watts compared to the 13amps 3200watts of the UK, so if using a transformer they'll create less load.
Australian Machines are a maximum of 10amps or 2400watts compared to the 13amps 3200watts of the UK, so if using a transformer they'll create less load.
panthera
Well-known member
Right, Nathan
After German unification, many German market machines were downrated from 16A @ 230V Single Phase AC to 10A, etc.
I guess we really should only discuss things in watts as the amps lead to confusion. Of course, the usual disclaimer, this formula is approximate and your milage may vary:
Amps * Volts = Watts.
A 230V European washer rated at 16 amps draws either
3680 watts in Europe, the UK and the US or
30.1 Amps in the US at 120V.
This is just approximate, because a machine starting up can draw lots more current or one running without heating elements might be very happy on a standard US outlet with just a simple transformer...But close enough that you can see why there is a problem to solve.
(Again, and please, let's not get into inductive, capacitive, PFC and all the other aspects, ok?. It is fun for some folks, but bores the rest of us to tears and really makes me even hesitate to ever reply or interact on any UK threads.)
After German unification, many German market machines were downrated from 16A @ 230V Single Phase AC to 10A, etc.
I guess we really should only discuss things in watts as the amps lead to confusion. Of course, the usual disclaimer, this formula is approximate and your milage may vary:
Amps * Volts = Watts.
A 230V European washer rated at 16 amps draws either
3680 watts in Europe, the UK and the US or
30.1 Amps in the US at 120V.
This is just approximate, because a machine starting up can draw lots more current or one running without heating elements might be very happy on a standard US outlet with just a simple transformer...But close enough that you can see why there is a problem to solve.
(Again, and please, let's not get into inductive, capacitive, PFC and all the other aspects, ok?. It is fun for some folks, but bores the rest of us to tears and really makes me even hesitate to ever reply or interact on any UK threads.)
Ireland
We changed TO UK 13A plugs and sockets in the 1960s/70s and they only became the offical standard in 1987! although, by then they were the de facto standard.
However, until the 1990s there were plenty of appliances on sale here with Schuko plugs that were rated 16A, particularly tumble dryers.
As, in general, they were not portable appliances, and Irish socket outlets are fed (as in Germany/France etc) by either 16A or 20A radial circuits (not like the UK where they're on 32A rings) it was perfectly safe to simply have a special outlet installed for the dryer / washer / whatever.
So, in many cases they would be connected via a Schuko outlet or, a BS546 (15A officially in the UK, but they've pins the size of your finger! and are rated 16A elsewhere) In some cases they were hard-wired to a 16A circuit via an isolator switch.
But, in some older homes you'll still find that all the sockets are BS1363 (UK style) and then you may find round pin BS546 or even schuko behind the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher!!
We also have always used 220V 50Hz single phase and 380V 50Hz three phase, the same as the rest of Europe, not the UK.
Now it's all officialy 230V 50Hz and 400V 50Hz and appliances can only be sold with UK-style plugs and are rated 13A max.
It was great having access to 16A dryers !!
We changed TO UK 13A plugs and sockets in the 1960s/70s and they only became the offical standard in 1987! although, by then they were the de facto standard.
However, until the 1990s there were plenty of appliances on sale here with Schuko plugs that were rated 16A, particularly tumble dryers.
As, in general, they were not portable appliances, and Irish socket outlets are fed (as in Germany/France etc) by either 16A or 20A radial circuits (not like the UK where they're on 32A rings) it was perfectly safe to simply have a special outlet installed for the dryer / washer / whatever.
So, in many cases they would be connected via a Schuko outlet or, a BS546 (15A officially in the UK, but they've pins the size of your finger! and are rated 16A elsewhere) In some cases they were hard-wired to a 16A circuit via an isolator switch.
But, in some older homes you'll still find that all the sockets are BS1363 (UK style) and then you may find round pin BS546 or even schuko behind the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher!!
We also have always used 220V 50Hz single phase and 380V 50Hz three phase, the same as the rest of Europe, not the UK.
Now it's all officialy 230V 50Hz and 400V 50Hz and appliances can only be sold with UK-style plugs and are rated 13A max.
It was great having access to 16A dryers !!
toggleswitch
Well-known member
My love life if boring me to tears- Barbara Streisand song.
MrX:
I beleive ring-circuits as found in the UK are relatively unknown outside the UK.
Let me briefly describe it and then we can all gloss-over it instead of getting too techinical!
Take a regular circuit of 16a. start at the circuit breaker or fuse box (uk=> consumer unit) go around the house. come back TO THE SAME circuit breaker and fuse forming a "RING"
16a wire gets a 32a fuse. Most outlets (UK=> power-point) are fed from BOTH sides of the ring effectively doubling the wires ability to transmit current (AMPERAGE).
Due to these unique ring circuits, UK plugs are generally fused. [Every flex cord plug-in device is fused). This explains why tplugs there tend to be very large compared to Schucko (euro) plugs or US flat-prong plugs.
Of course there are "regular" radial runs (power source to appliance) without a ring on it. And just when you thought it was safe to swim again, radial runs are allowed off of ring circuits OY VEY!
MrX:
I beleive ring-circuits as found in the UK are relatively unknown outside the UK.
Let me briefly describe it and then we can all gloss-over it instead of getting too techinical!
Take a regular circuit of 16a. start at the circuit breaker or fuse box (uk=> consumer unit) go around the house. come back TO THE SAME circuit breaker and fuse forming a "RING"
16a wire gets a 32a fuse. Most outlets (UK=> power-point) are fed from BOTH sides of the ring effectively doubling the wires ability to transmit current (AMPERAGE).
Due to these unique ring circuits, UK plugs are generally fused. [Every flex cord plug-in device is fused). This explains why tplugs there tend to be very large compared to Schucko (euro) plugs or US flat-prong plugs.
Of course there are "regular" radial runs (power source to appliance) without a ring on it. And just when you thought it was safe to swim again, radial runs are allowed off of ring circuits OY VEY!
toggleswitch
Well-known member
~They just put in 240V window A/C outlets.
WOW someone REALLY liked that vacuum cleaner! That is an expensive propostion, if there were no A/C lines already there!
WOW someone REALLY liked that vacuum cleaner! That is an expensive propostion, if there were no A/C lines already there!
panthera
Well-known member
I wonder
if that would even be possible with the lower voltage used in North America. Posible, of course, but practical? Most folks from the 'States are shocked the first time they see the diameter of wire used for 16Amp circuits here...
There is another nice thing to be said about many UK power points; they frequently have on/off switches.
Of course, from a Elktrosmog perspective, these ring jobs are not exactly ideal, in case your madness drifts in that direction.
if that would even be possible with the lower voltage used in North America. Posible, of course, but practical? Most folks from the 'States are shocked the first time they see the diameter of wire used for 16Amp circuits here...
There is another nice thing to be said about many UK power points; they frequently have on/off switches.
Of course, from a Elktrosmog perspective, these ring jobs are not exactly ideal, in case your madness drifts in that direction.
panthera
Well-known member
nah,
They probably used your approach without your paranoia, er, caution and now there are hot neutrals (for the anal-retentives, live groundeds) just a' poppin' and a' glowin'.
Saves on the heating bills, ya know...wall heat and all.
They probably used your approach without your paranoia, er, caution and now there are hot neutrals (for the anal-retentives, live groundeds) just a' poppin' and a' glowin'.
Saves on the heating bills, ya know...wall heat and all.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
~Most folks from the 'States are shocked the first time they see the diameter of wire used for 16Amp circuits here...
I honestly thougght it was lamp cord when I saw some electrical work being done in a London hotel
It's half (+/-) the size/thickness of US 15a circuit wire....literally.
I honestly thougght it was lamp cord when I saw some electrical work being done in a London hotel
It's half (+/-) the size/thickness of US 15a circuit wire....literally.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
~......and now there are hot neutrals.
It is my understanding that the two hots from the beginning and the end of the ring (remember both are on the same "phase")feed from one breaker/fuse and the two neutrals are still neutral!
It is my understanding that the two hots from the beginning and the end of the ring (remember both are on the same "phase")feed from one breaker/fuse and the two neutrals are still neutral!
panthera
Well-known member
But of course they are
I was refering to your (it was so clever, I assumed it was you) quick 220V fixer-upper back in the day to turn 120V outlets into 220V in NYC.
And the 'neutral' versus 'grounded' is just me poking fun at the anal-retentives among us and the silliness some of the NEC folks are trying to perpetuate by forcing us to distinguish live, grounded and grounding instead of 'neutral'...I don't remember a NEC with as many errors, bloopers and d-u-m, dumb ideas as the 2006...my favorite being it is forbidden to hold livestock on the ground while, at the same time it is forbidden to hold them on a concrete foundation...
I was refering to your (it was so clever, I assumed it was you) quick 220V fixer-upper back in the day to turn 120V outlets into 220V in NYC.
And the 'neutral' versus 'grounded' is just me poking fun at the anal-retentives among us and the silliness some of the NEC folks are trying to perpetuate by forcing us to distinguish live, grounded and grounding instead of 'neutral'...I don't remember a NEC with as many errors, bloopers and d-u-m, dumb ideas as the 2006...my favorite being it is forbidden to hold livestock on the ground while, at the same time it is forbidden to hold them on a concrete foundation...
seamusuk
Well-known member
Ring mains
Hey Toggle!
The two live wires do indeed go back tho the same terminal on the fuse/circuit breaker(fuses are normally 30a and breakers are normally 32a). There is a single neutral connection block in the consumer unit/fusebox and also a single earth/ground block.
Ring mains are either wired in 6mm or 10mm cable(a vacuum cord is normally either 0.75 or 1.00mm by comparison).
The maximum load allowed on a ring is 7.2kw @ 240v- a 13a outlet can handle 3.2kw@ 240v.
Cheers
Seamus
Hey Toggle!
The two live wires do indeed go back tho the same terminal on the fuse/circuit breaker(fuses are normally 30a and breakers are normally 32a). There is a single neutral connection block in the consumer unit/fusebox and also a single earth/ground block.
Ring mains are either wired in 6mm or 10mm cable(a vacuum cord is normally either 0.75 or 1.00mm by comparison).
The maximum load allowed on a ring is 7.2kw @ 240v- a 13a outlet can handle 3.2kw@ 240v.
Cheers
Seamus
seamusuk
Well-known member
Forgot to say...
Radial extensions (Spurs)
These are indeed allowed with 2 conditions
1. You cant have more spurs than there are sockets on the ring.
2. Each spur can only have one socket/fixed appliance attached to it i.e you cant run a spur off a spur!
Seamus
Radial extensions (Spurs)
These are indeed allowed with 2 conditions
1. You cant have more spurs than there are sockets on the ring.
2. Each spur can only have one socket/fixed appliance attached to it i.e you cant run a spur off a spur!
Seamus
Toggleswitch:
Don't forget that it's twice the voltage, so a typical European circuit can carry twice as much power over the same diameter of cable.
Also, you could have been looking at 6A or 10A lighting circuits which are not a huge diameter.
I had a look at some electrical safety stats and in general North western European countries have exceptionally low electrical accident rates (lower than the US). Electrical fires are also less common in Europe - This may be due to the choice of 230V giving a typical power circuit more 'ummph'. Where as in the US, it's more likely to have a 15A outlet pushed to its max.
What freaks European electricans and engineers out in the US is the use of zip cord! We banned it in the 1960s as it's considered to be extremely unsafe as it's only single insulated.
They're different systems, but if used correctly they're both pretty safe.
What I worry about is DIY hack jobs, either side of the atlantic!
Don't forget that it's twice the voltage, so a typical European circuit can carry twice as much power over the same diameter of cable.
Also, you could have been looking at 6A or 10A lighting circuits which are not a huge diameter.
I had a look at some electrical safety stats and in general North western European countries have exceptionally low electrical accident rates (lower than the US). Electrical fires are also less common in Europe - This may be due to the choice of 230V giving a typical power circuit more 'ummph'. Where as in the US, it's more likely to have a 15A outlet pushed to its max.
What freaks European electricans and engineers out in the US is the use of zip cord! We banned it in the 1960s as it's considered to be extremely unsafe as it's only single insulated.
They're different systems, but if used correctly they're both pretty safe.
What I worry about is DIY hack jobs, either side of the atlantic!
toggleswitch
Well-known member
~What I worry about is DIY hack jobs, either side of the atlantic!
Excellent points, all ot them!
What do you mean by "zip cord" and where is it stll used within the US?
My ethnic group imports form Europe small electric voitve lights that have been converted for use on 110v. The wire is extremely thin based on what we are used to!
Excellent points, all ot them!
What do you mean by "zip cord" and where is it stll used within the US?
My ethnic group imports form Europe small electric voitve lights that have been converted for use on 110v. The wire is extremely thin based on what we are used to!
panthera
Well-known member
Toggles,
Zip-Cord is an outdated (sorry mrx) term for the flat, single insulated cable properly termed "twin feeder cable".
Here in Europe, it is still seen in older appliances and stuff from China 'pretending' to be CE conform.
Go to any Walmart and you can find it in 14-18AWG (arg!) sizes. But it will always have pretty little caps on the end to cover the un-used holes in the extension cord head so no accidents occur.
I do wish the folks in the Uk would stop comparing apples with oranges. I have spent too much time in the homes of my poorer British relations and way too much time with visiting nurses in the area around Manchester to put up with this 'we are so much better nonsense'. Yes, the current situation in the US has all of us upset. Yes, Americans are quite provencial. But a folk which returned Margaret Thatcher to power again and again should really be a bit more circumspect in their criticisms.
One never hears the native born Germans or Italians fire away at the US on this site...in fact, I am the only continental European here who ever permits himself criticism. Maybe I shouldn't, but growing up in both cultures I, at least, know whereof I speak.
If one were to compare an upper-middle class domicile in the US with one in the UK, I daresay one would find similar dangers and means to counter them.
And let's not forget that all three cultures - German, UK and the US are doing their best to destroy the middle class and transfer all value addition to the Chinese while remaining dependent on a culture which genuinely hates us for our lifeblood, oil.
Zip-Cord is an outdated (sorry mrx) term for the flat, single insulated cable properly termed "twin feeder cable".
Here in Europe, it is still seen in older appliances and stuff from China 'pretending' to be CE conform.
Go to any Walmart and you can find it in 14-18AWG (arg!) sizes. But it will always have pretty little caps on the end to cover the un-used holes in the extension cord head so no accidents occur.
I do wish the folks in the Uk would stop comparing apples with oranges. I have spent too much time in the homes of my poorer British relations and way too much time with visiting nurses in the area around Manchester to put up with this 'we are so much better nonsense'. Yes, the current situation in the US has all of us upset. Yes, Americans are quite provencial. But a folk which returned Margaret Thatcher to power again and again should really be a bit more circumspect in their criticisms.
One never hears the native born Germans or Italians fire away at the US on this site...in fact, I am the only continental European here who ever permits himself criticism. Maybe I shouldn't, but growing up in both cultures I, at least, know whereof I speak.
If one were to compare an upper-middle class domicile in the US with one in the UK, I daresay one would find similar dangers and means to counter them.
And let's not forget that all three cultures - German, UK and the US are doing their best to destroy the middle class and transfer all value addition to the Chinese while remaining dependent on a culture which genuinely hates us for our lifeblood, oil.
toggleswitch
Well-known member
I love everyone and Mr. X too!
Everyone calm down!
No offense taken at all! We all need to allow ourselves some lee-way(sp?) in our thoughts. I don't get offended by anyone. It's my policy. Depending on how read ("red"), everyone's posts can be misconsrued. Tone doesn't convey on the web!
If I have managed to offend anyone by this thread *SORRY*. I very carefully have tried not to judge anyone's system, only to compare relative to other ways so we can all learn.
ah zip-cord=> I'd call lamp cord.
Love and blessings to all. BREATHE!
Everyone calm down!
No offense taken at all! We all need to allow ourselves some lee-way(sp?) in our thoughts. I don't get offended by anyone. It's my policy. Depending on how read ("red"), everyone's posts can be misconsrued. Tone doesn't convey on the web!
If I have managed to offend anyone by this thread *SORRY*. I very carefully have tried not to judge anyone's system, only to compare relative to other ways so we can all learn.
ah zip-cord=> I'd call lamp cord.
Love and blessings to all. BREATHE!
panthera
Well-known member
breath in, breath out
You're right, Steve. Sorry folks if I misjudged anyone's intents.
Yup, Toggles, my dad called it lamp wire, too. And my gramp's called it zip wire and only let me use it as speaker wire.
I think it was originally called zip because you just pull on the too ends and, zip! it is apart.
Unfortunately, the insulation is not that much harder to accidentaly pull off...
I recently replaced ten or so of the beasties (someone out their in applianceville knows where and whose) with brand new, safer ones. But they seem to generate spontaneously.
Ok, so now I need help...how do I get the spell check on Firefox to work under Vista? I miss it, I do!
You're right, Steve. Sorry folks if I misjudged anyone's intents.
Yup, Toggles, my dad called it lamp wire, too. And my gramp's called it zip wire and only let me use it as speaker wire.
I think it was originally called zip because you just pull on the too ends and, zip! it is apart.
Unfortunately, the insulation is not that much harder to accidentaly pull off...
I recently replaced ten or so of the beasties (someone out their in applianceville knows where and whose) with brand new, safer ones. But they seem to generate spontaneously.
Ok, so now I need help...how do I get the spell check on Firefox to work under Vista? I miss it, I do!
Basically the rule in Europe is that everything has to be double-insulated, including cable. So, it all has an inner sheath on the individual cables and an outer sheath covering that. You have it in the US on most things, but you also have the 'zip cord' type stuff on a lot of appliances too.
As for the cable on the European appliances being thinner, because the voltage is twice as high, the cable can be half the thickness. Ohms law!
As for the cable on the European appliances being thinner, because the voltage is twice as high, the cable can be half the thickness. Ohms law!
Well I think it's high time Europe and Australia did away with all that foolishness and started using the right type of electricity like we have over here. It would be so much simpler to swap stuff too. And while they're at it the UK and Oz could also work on driving on the right side of the road instead of the wrong side LOL
selectomatic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 483
Well, Pete, at least the Australians have an excuse what with the coriolis effect and all. They don't even know when winter's supposed to be, how can you expect them to drive on the right side of the road?
Actually, voltage and plugs and cords and all of that aren't that big a problem to deal with -- it's 50Hz vs. 60Hz power that can be a real bugger.
-kevin
Actually, voltage and plugs and cords and all of that aren't that big a problem to deal with -- it's 50Hz vs. 60Hz power that can be a real bugger.
-kevin
lasvegasrox
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 88
i wanna buy the new hotpoint washer and like yah or that touch control washer and if i wnated to buy a complete appliance set from miele and bring it here
sudsmaster
Well-known member
You haven't lived until...
...until you've seen clear lamp cord being used for permanent exposed outside lighting wiring (in Guatemala)...
...until you've seen clear lamp cord being used for permanent exposed outside lighting wiring (in Guatemala)...
sudsmaster
Well-known member
PS-One reason why the US seems to get "away" with using single-insulated "zip cord" for lights and small appliances is probably because of the dielectric issue. 110 volts is about half as likely to arc across an insulator as 220 volts. So double insulation is probably more important for 220 volt wiring than it is for 110 volt lines. Of course, it's also a good idea if the wiring is going to be subjected to abrasion/heat/light.
Even so, as a result of this thread I'm seriously considering getting double insulated wiring for rewiring various electric powered items around my home... especially those that need to be rewired anyway, and those with wiring running in areas with more traffic/disturbance.
Even so, as a result of this thread I'm seriously considering getting double insulated wiring for rewiring various electric powered items around my home... especially those that need to be rewired anyway, and those with wiring running in areas with more traffic/disturbance.
launderess
Well-known member
Getting Back On Topic
Bringing a Euro/UK washing machine to the United States will depend, as another poster stated on how much and what type of power is required, and what is being powered as well.
You have already found out that most European wiring is 220v/240v single phase (that is one wire brings in 220v), versus the United States system of two wires each at 120v but out of phase with each other. There is also the matter European/UK power is at 50hz and the United States at 60hz.
Older washing machines and other appliances with simple electronics and or mechanical systems might not be bothered with the switch, provided one hooks them up carefully. However modern washing machines with computers/motherboards probably will not work, or work very well because the computers are set for 50hz, running them at 60hz can cause all sorts of problems ranging from faster cycles to increased spin speeds.
To run an appliance that needs single phase 220v power exclusivly, the simple solution would be to use a step-up converter rated at least 50% more than the maxium power draw of the appliance. That is to say if the washer draws 2500w, the coverter should be rated at least 5000w. Converters however will not change the frequency (hz) of the power, thus if the appliance truly needs 50hz versus 60hz, you will need a box to change frequency in addition to the converter, these are dear and quite large.
Converters for use in the United States generally stop at 3000watts, which is slighlty over the max power that can be safely drawn (by code) from a 20amp electrical circut in the United States. While you can find converters at 4000w, 5000w and up to 10,000w, it is not generally safe draw that much power from a 20amp circut for a long period of time. The last two converters are almost always sold as units which must be hardwired into the home's electrical system.
Being as all the above may, there are/were several persons who purchased AEG washing machines either from a source in Canada (Euro-line appliances), which run on European 220v/50hz power. IIRC Euro-line gave instructions upon shipment on how to make the units work with American power. IIRC, one person even ran his off a converter. Occasionally one sees other European washers and or dryers for sale in the United States, some apparently used here, which means the owner's found a way to make them run.
In regards to power draw; if you do not intend to use the washing machine's heaters often or for long periods of time, you *might* get away with using the washer with a converter. That is to say if one sets the machine to "tap cold" and uses whatever water comes into the washer, and or starts with water say at 120F and heats it to 140F, pulling 2400 watts for a short period of time may not cause damage, however I'd speak to an electrican and have him see what sort of condition your wiring/outlets are in before considering such a move. Appliances such as washing machines pull their max power when heating water, usually their motors are 90watts or less, then there is some power to run other systems, but again they are much less than the 2500w or so used to power the heating elements. Even the max draw of the heating elements is only a short part of the cycle (depending upon incoming water temp versus desired water temp).
You would need a dedicated 20amp circut, with proper wiring from the panel to outlet, not merely a 20amp breaker/fuse installed in the panel and outlet changed.
Personally unless the washing machine in question is so extraordinary to warrant such time and effort, I wouldn't bother. You can find many good vintage Miele washing machines in the United States that run on American 220v, that will do boil and very hot washes, the main reason for all that power.
Bringing a Euro/UK washing machine to the United States will depend, as another poster stated on how much and what type of power is required, and what is being powered as well.
You have already found out that most European wiring is 220v/240v single phase (that is one wire brings in 220v), versus the United States system of two wires each at 120v but out of phase with each other. There is also the matter European/UK power is at 50hz and the United States at 60hz.
Older washing machines and other appliances with simple electronics and or mechanical systems might not be bothered with the switch, provided one hooks them up carefully. However modern washing machines with computers/motherboards probably will not work, or work very well because the computers are set for 50hz, running them at 60hz can cause all sorts of problems ranging from faster cycles to increased spin speeds.
To run an appliance that needs single phase 220v power exclusivly, the simple solution would be to use a step-up converter rated at least 50% more than the maxium power draw of the appliance. That is to say if the washer draws 2500w, the coverter should be rated at least 5000w. Converters however will not change the frequency (hz) of the power, thus if the appliance truly needs 50hz versus 60hz, you will need a box to change frequency in addition to the converter, these are dear and quite large.
Converters for use in the United States generally stop at 3000watts, which is slighlty over the max power that can be safely drawn (by code) from a 20amp electrical circut in the United States. While you can find converters at 4000w, 5000w and up to 10,000w, it is not generally safe draw that much power from a 20amp circut for a long period of time. The last two converters are almost always sold as units which must be hardwired into the home's electrical system.
Being as all the above may, there are/were several persons who purchased AEG washing machines either from a source in Canada (Euro-line appliances), which run on European 220v/50hz power. IIRC Euro-line gave instructions upon shipment on how to make the units work with American power. IIRC, one person even ran his off a converter. Occasionally one sees other European washers and or dryers for sale in the United States, some apparently used here, which means the owner's found a way to make them run.
In regards to power draw; if you do not intend to use the washing machine's heaters often or for long periods of time, you *might* get away with using the washer with a converter. That is to say if one sets the machine to "tap cold" and uses whatever water comes into the washer, and or starts with water say at 120F and heats it to 140F, pulling 2400 watts for a short period of time may not cause damage, however I'd speak to an electrican and have him see what sort of condition your wiring/outlets are in before considering such a move. Appliances such as washing machines pull their max power when heating water, usually their motors are 90watts or less, then there is some power to run other systems, but again they are much less than the 2500w or so used to power the heating elements. Even the max draw of the heating elements is only a short part of the cycle (depending upon incoming water temp versus desired water temp).
You would need a dedicated 20amp circut, with proper wiring from the panel to outlet, not merely a 20amp breaker/fuse installed in the panel and outlet changed.
Personally unless the washing machine in question is so extraordinary to warrant such time and effort, I wouldn't bother. You can find many good vintage Miele washing machines in the United States that run on American 220v, that will do boil and very hot washes, the main reason for all that power.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
50 Hz vs 60 Hz
A lot depends on how the electronics is designed. For example, the standard in Japan is 115v 50Hz. I bought a boombox type of radio/tape/cassette player (Panasonic) while I was in Japan. It was set up for 115/50 hz operation, but it runs just fine on American 120v/60Hz power. The reason is that like most modern consumer electronic equipment, it converts AC to DC to run the electronics, so the frequency really doesn't matter. Frequency also wouldn't matter to resistance heaters in a washer. The remaning issue would be the motor and pump... and I got nothing there, other than that universal motors (with brushes) run on anything from DC to AC, so they shouldn't mind 50 Hz instead of 60 Hz.
But I agree. Too much uncertainty, fuss, and bother to get all the ducks lined upto run a UK spec washer in the USA, whenperfectly good 220 volt euro washers are still available here (at least used, if not new).
A lot depends on how the electronics is designed. For example, the standard in Japan is 115v 50Hz. I bought a boombox type of radio/tape/cassette player (Panasonic) while I was in Japan. It was set up for 115/50 hz operation, but it runs just fine on American 120v/60Hz power. The reason is that like most modern consumer electronic equipment, it converts AC to DC to run the electronics, so the frequency really doesn't matter. Frequency also wouldn't matter to resistance heaters in a washer. The remaning issue would be the motor and pump... and I got nothing there, other than that universal motors (with brushes) run on anything from DC to AC, so they shouldn't mind 50 Hz instead of 60 Hz.
But I agree. Too much uncertainty, fuss, and bother to get all the ducks lined upto run a UK spec washer in the USA, whenperfectly good 220 volt euro washers are still available here (at least used, if not new).
panthera
Well-known member
Thank you
Laundress, I think you have put together the last word on the subject. A definitive essay on what works and is practical for the average person.
One thing which I have yet to see suggested, but would work very well if one had the outdoor space available, would be a Honda generator with the 220v 50Hz output. Would have to be one of the better ones, obviously, but yup, if'n I had a garage I could electrically isolate from the rest of the 60Hz world and neighbors who could live with the muffled but still noticeable sound, that is precisely what I would do.
If, of course, I wanted a new European washer. But, why? As we have seen, a W1070 or even older is just about the closest thing to perfection there is.
Imagine - a Unimatic, a late 1950's Miele and one of those Norges with the attachable hair bonnet. Perry Como on the stereo (I am thinking something like a 1959 VM console), the latest issue of Life and an Eames easy chair...
Gosh, I might just shock my family and make something like this up for a Christmas doll house.
(Obviously, I'd be in their, too...hmm, Jackie-O high hair or tightly drawn into a bun with Dagmars...)
That'll give the fundies in the family something to mull over...
Laundress, I think you have put together the last word on the subject. A definitive essay on what works and is practical for the average person.
One thing which I have yet to see suggested, but would work very well if one had the outdoor space available, would be a Honda generator with the 220v 50Hz output. Would have to be one of the better ones, obviously, but yup, if'n I had a garage I could electrically isolate from the rest of the 60Hz world and neighbors who could live with the muffled but still noticeable sound, that is precisely what I would do.
If, of course, I wanted a new European washer. But, why? As we have seen, a W1070 or even older is just about the closest thing to perfection there is.
Imagine - a Unimatic, a late 1950's Miele and one of those Norges with the attachable hair bonnet. Perry Como on the stereo (I am thinking something like a 1959 VM console), the latest issue of Life and an Eames easy chair...
Gosh, I might just shock my family and make something like this up for a Christmas doll house.
(Obviously, I'd be in their, too...hmm, Jackie-O high hair or tightly drawn into a bun with Dagmars...)
That'll give the fundies in the family something to mull over...
launderess
Well-known member
Didn't Wish To Go There
Generator power, though "easy" enough if one has experience and knows what one is doing, is just too dangerous if someone for instance tried to run the thing indoors. Don't laugh but many people in the United States each year die of carbon monoxide poisioning from running generators indoors/in an enclosed space. Do agree however that if one was say running the washer in say a garage or laundry porch a generator would do the trick. Heck women ran Maytag gasoline powered washers that way for ages.
One thing to consider is the cost of running a generator factored into the overall cost of running the washing machine. Then there is also the pollution, unless one runs the thing on natural gas. Even then there is the noise.
L.
Generator power, though "easy" enough if one has experience and knows what one is doing, is just too dangerous if someone for instance tried to run the thing indoors. Don't laugh but many people in the United States each year die of carbon monoxide poisioning from running generators indoors/in an enclosed space. Do agree however that if one was say running the washer in say a garage or laundry porch a generator would do the trick. Heck women ran Maytag gasoline powered washers that way for ages.
One thing to consider is the cost of running a generator factored into the overall cost of running the washing machine. Then there is also the pollution, unless one runs the thing on natural gas. Even then there is the noise.
L.
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