mrb627
Well-known member
Who had the first automatic washer with an EXTRA RINSE option?
Malcolm
Malcolm
"EXTRA RINSE"
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macboy91si
Well-known member
Just a Guess
I've seen this option on pretty old GE's. Even though I think many automatics double-rinsed before that by default, I'm going to go with GE being the 1st to have it as an option control.
-Tim
I've seen this option on pretty old GE's. Even though I think many automatics double-rinsed before that by default, I'm going to go with GE being the 1st to have it as an option control.
-Tim
Maybe Bendix?
My aunt had one of those old Economats that had 2 deep rinses on the dial, but it was not an optional second rinse. She would always advance the dial to save water and rinse once.
My aunt had one of those old Economats that had 2 deep rinses on the dial, but it was not an optional second rinse. She would always advance the dial to save water and rinse once.
Thats actually funny.....the machine, GE FilterFlo, with clear rinses, offering a second rinse...
but was probably the first.......
have seen it on one or two Kenmore's of the 60's as well.....
but was probably the first.......
have seen it on one or two Kenmore's of the 60's as well.....
turquoisedude
Well-known member
Hmmmm... The 53 Canadian Westinghouse Laundromat has two rinses by default; can't for the life of me remember if the 51 L5 did or not though...
The early Frigidaire Unimatics also offered two deep rinses by default.
I'm not sure exactly what year they went to one rinse with continuous overflow but I do know that they had made this change by 1956.
I'm not sure exactly what year they went to one rinse with continuous overflow but I do know that they had made this change by 1956.
EXTRA RINSE option
The key to the question is that the 'second' rinse is optional. Many varies of fixed programed second rinses were common early on in the automatic game, with the optional choice requiring a button with aditional programming with the timer istelf.
The earliest second rinse Kenmore I can recall would be the '66 Lady K, and the '65 Custom Imperial Frigidaire does have an optional second rise as well (I'll have to check the archives to see if the '64 CI has a second rinse option). Those are the earliest major players I can think of, along with TOL GE of the time.
Maytag didn't get into the second rinse arena till WAY late in the game - four digit model machines from the 90's (a shame too).
Ben[this post was last edited: 3/5/2012-16:02]
The key to the question is that the 'second' rinse is optional. Many varies of fixed programed second rinses were common early on in the automatic game, with the optional choice requiring a button with aditional programming with the timer istelf.
The earliest second rinse Kenmore I can recall would be the '66 Lady K, and the '65 Custom Imperial Frigidaire does have an optional second rise as well (I'll have to check the archives to see if the '64 CI has a second rinse option). Those are the earliest major players I can think of, along with TOL GE of the time.
Maytag didn't get into the second rinse arena till WAY late in the game - four digit model machines from the 90's (a shame too).
Ben[this post was last edited: 3/5/2012-16:02]
macboy91si
Well-known member
Options
Right Ben, you said that better than I, many machines did 2 rinses on the cycle, but the question was when was the "option" added. I am curious to see which (if any) was definitively 1st with this option.
-Tim
Right Ben, you said that better than I, many machines did 2 rinses on the cycle, but the question was when was the "option" added. I am curious to see which (if any) was definitively 1st with this option.
-Tim
I may stand corrected
But I believe Frigidaire had it right from the start. I'm pretty sure Robert could answer as to whether or not the first 47's had it but I do know that my 50' WO-65 has it built into the timer, rather than doing an overflow. I think overflow rinse started on Frigidaires in 53'
But I believe Frigidaire had it right from the start. I'm pretty sure Robert could answer as to whether or not the first 47's had it but I do know that my 50' WO-65 has it built into the timer, rather than doing an overflow. I think overflow rinse started on Frigidaires in 53'
General Motors and 'optional' second rinses
After a quick check of the 1964 GM Frigidaire doctrine, they do present a second rinse option within the timer sequence chart, therefore putting GM currently at the front of the optional rinse game about the time LBJ was taking over office.
A second rinse option was not available on pre-66 Lady Kenmore machines. I would suspect the 'Mark' line of Whirlpool would have been a year or two later considering Sears was always holding out on earning as much as possible on the extra options as they could.
The earliest I can figure GE had it was with the 1967 control panel revision. A brochure posted last year (link below) shows the extra knob for the switch, so I suspect that was the function. I've seen it on 1968 and 1969 TOL panels, so I'm making an assumption that it was available a year earlier as well.
Frigidaire had two deep rinses permanently programmed into the timer, starting with the WJ-60 in 1947 through the WO-65, ending with the WO-65-2 and it's overflow rinse in 1952. The second rinse was anything but optional by choice on those early Unimatics, but instead automatic. Westinghouse and Bendix also had multiple rinses, however that would be expected with those machines being primarily front loading.
When it comes to some of the other players (Norge/Westinghouse TL/Hotpoint/Blackstone/EASY/Kelvinator/Philco TL, etc.), I'll have to defer to other members on the board.
Ben
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?34271
After a quick check of the 1964 GM Frigidaire doctrine, they do present a second rinse option within the timer sequence chart, therefore putting GM currently at the front of the optional rinse game about the time LBJ was taking over office.
A second rinse option was not available on pre-66 Lady Kenmore machines. I would suspect the 'Mark' line of Whirlpool would have been a year or two later considering Sears was always holding out on earning as much as possible on the extra options as they could.
The earliest I can figure GE had it was with the 1967 control panel revision. A brochure posted last year (link below) shows the extra knob for the switch, so I suspect that was the function. I've seen it on 1968 and 1969 TOL panels, so I'm making an assumption that it was available a year earlier as well.
Frigidaire had two deep rinses permanently programmed into the timer, starting with the WJ-60 in 1947 through the WO-65, ending with the WO-65-2 and it's overflow rinse in 1952. The second rinse was anything but optional by choice on those early Unimatics, but instead automatic. Westinghouse and Bendix also had multiple rinses, however that would be expected with those machines being primarily front loading.
When it comes to some of the other players (Norge/Westinghouse TL/Hotpoint/Blackstone/EASY/Kelvinator/Philco TL, etc.), I'll have to defer to other members on the board.
Ben
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?34271
WPs Frist Optional 2nd Rinse
I think it would have been the LFA9800 their first Electronically Controlled machine in 1977. For the most part I think that WP and MT got it right as a 2nd rinse is a HUGH waste of water for the most part and using this wasteful feature also puts a lot of extra wear and tear on the washer. On any AW ever built you could always set the machine for a 2nd rinse for special loads. I cannot even estimate how many machines I have modified so the 2nd rinse feature becomes inoperative.
I think it would have been the LFA9800 their first Electronically Controlled machine in 1977. For the most part I think that WP and MT got it right as a 2nd rinse is a HUGH waste of water for the most part and using this wasteful feature also puts a lot of extra wear and tear on the washer. On any AW ever built you could always set the machine for a 2nd rinse for special loads. I cannot even estimate how many machines I have modified so the 2nd rinse feature becomes inoperative.
MaytagA710
Well-known member
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Maytag
Maytags first machine with an extra-rinse feature was the A9800, this is the same machine that beekeyknee resotred, and retro-fitted with a helical/pitman drive transmission. Of course the A9900 (the digital model) also had a extra rinse feature. From then on, only the TOL models fetured extra rinse.
I never understood why Maytag was pretty much the last manufacturer to jump on the extra-rinse band wagon? Were they stubborn and believed the spray rinse, and deep rinse was plenty?
Personally, I wish the A712 had an extra rinse feature for when I washed towels. Its not a big deal to reset the timer, but it would be a nice feature!
Maytags first machine with an extra-rinse feature was the A9800, this is the same machine that beekeyknee resotred, and retro-fitted with a helical/pitman drive transmission. Of course the A9900 (the digital model) also had a extra rinse feature. From then on, only the TOL models fetured extra rinse.
I never understood why Maytag was pretty much the last manufacturer to jump on the extra-rinse band wagon? Were they stubborn and believed the spray rinse, and deep rinse was plenty?
Personally, I wish the A712 had an extra rinse feature for when I washed towels. Its not a big deal to reset the timer, but it would be a nice feature!
philr
Well-known member
I rarely use the pre wash option on my 1-18 but I do use the second rinse occasionally. I'm wondering if there are any new TL washers with agitators that still have this feature? A friend of mine has a Whirlpool / Maytag TL (Centennial) from 2009 and it still has it.
As far as a switch for a rinse option,
Tim in Maine is right about the Bendix Economat (with the Rinsaver dial to reduce the number of rinses from two to one) being the first machine to have a switch to give rinsing options. With the poorer extraction, many users and even the designers of the Bendix Economat felt two deep rinses were necessary since it extracted less effectively than a wringer and two deep rinses were the minimum & standard number of rinses for a load washed in a wringer washer. To save water however, since the Economat had to rinse with warm because of the rubber tub and to make the textiles as relaxed as possible for optimum squeezing action, in cases where the hot water supply did not allow for two rinses, Bexdix allowed the user to opt out of the default second rinse. Yes, this is sort of the opposite answer to what you were expecting, but in a backwards logic kind of way, it could be correct.
Tim in Maine is right about the Bendix Economat (with the Rinsaver dial to reduce the number of rinses from two to one) being the first machine to have a switch to give rinsing options. With the poorer extraction, many users and even the designers of the Bendix Economat felt two deep rinses were necessary since it extracted less effectively than a wringer and two deep rinses were the minimum & standard number of rinses for a load washed in a wringer washer. To save water however, since the Economat had to rinse with warm because of the rubber tub and to make the textiles as relaxed as possible for optimum squeezing action, in cases where the hot water supply did not allow for two rinses, Bexdix allowed the user to opt out of the default second rinse. Yes, this is sort of the opposite answer to what you were expecting, but in a backwards logic kind of way, it could be correct.
mrb627
Well-known member
GM Frigidaire
I would have never guessed that GMF was the first to offer the OPTIONAL Extra Rinse.
Thanks for the Quick Research!
Malcolm
I would have never guessed that GMF was the first to offer the OPTIONAL Extra Rinse.
Thanks for the Quick Research!
Malcolm
Yes the answer is the Bendix Economat in '53 had a separate dial which you could select one or two rinses.
Wow Robert, that was something I was not expecting at all, very cool!
Ben
Ben
In spite of John's views, my mother always reset the machines for an extra deep rinse. The men who came out to service our machines always said that they never saw machines so free of rust, corrosion & buildup as her machines. We guessed that the extra rinsing played a role in that.
passatdoc
Well-known member
I remember seeing Extra Rinse as an option on higher end FL machines when I had to purchase a washer in 1988 and in 1997. In 1988, I had just bought a home and was on a tight budget, so bought a White Westinghouse pair from Price Club (now Costco) for $598. POS washer but you get what you pay for. When I bought the GE pair in 1997, I remember seeing a higher model with Extra Rinse for $50 more---is that about the price differential that others remember? It seemed like they wanted $50 more for a single feature.
macboy91si
Well-known member
Rinsing and Twintubs
My take and experience...
In my Hoover machines, I usually open up the pump and find horrible crap (detergent residue) in them and it has usually gone terminal and destroyed the pump. With a lot of these small machines, they were usually oversudsed and never rinsed out. With a Hoover especially, you use the spinner to rinse and the last thing the pump sees in a use is the mucky, soapy water being drained and then the machine being put away. Few people ever flushed the pumps with clean water. One machine that I have been using on and off for 4 years now was like that when I got it. I replaced the pump with a good used one that I had and lubed it up. 4 years later I disassembled it to lube the bearing and found NOTHING in the pump. As clean as it was when I assembled it. I attribute that to clearing the pump after use.
Now for the double rinse theory that Tom has, I do understand that. If heavy soap was used in the wash and not rinsed in the first rinse, then I see no harm that could be done by flushing away more of the soap residue. I suppose that this would depend on additives and the hardness of the water. Again I can see that if ample amounts of detergent was used. I don't find Maytags to be exceptional rinsers with the "recommended" amount of Tide or Gain in them and I too will dial in a 2nd rinse at times. The GE-FF never needs more than one rinse and recently when pulling the tub for inspection was relieved to find no buildup. All of these machines see hot water washes and bleach regularly. I like to rinse and see the water as close to clear as possible, and so far this does not seem to have been detrimental to any of my equipment.
-Tim
My take and experience...
In my Hoover machines, I usually open up the pump and find horrible crap (detergent residue) in them and it has usually gone terminal and destroyed the pump. With a lot of these small machines, they were usually oversudsed and never rinsed out. With a Hoover especially, you use the spinner to rinse and the last thing the pump sees in a use is the mucky, soapy water being drained and then the machine being put away. Few people ever flushed the pumps with clean water. One machine that I have been using on and off for 4 years now was like that when I got it. I replaced the pump with a good used one that I had and lubed it up. 4 years later I disassembled it to lube the bearing and found NOTHING in the pump. As clean as it was when I assembled it. I attribute that to clearing the pump after use.
Now for the double rinse theory that Tom has, I do understand that. If heavy soap was used in the wash and not rinsed in the first rinse, then I see no harm that could be done by flushing away more of the soap residue. I suppose that this would depend on additives and the hardness of the water. Again I can see that if ample amounts of detergent was used. I don't find Maytags to be exceptional rinsers with the "recommended" amount of Tide or Gain in them and I too will dial in a 2nd rinse at times. The GE-FF never needs more than one rinse and recently when pulling the tub for inspection was relieved to find no buildup. All of these machines see hot water washes and bleach regularly. I like to rinse and see the water as close to clear as possible, and so far this does not seem to have been detrimental to any of my equipment.
-Tim
arbilab
Well-known member
Not like I've seen EVERYthing, but in all my AW experience, and I've been watching/using them for 60 years, I never saw an 'extra rinse' option until I bought my 1998 Frigiwhite FL. Cycle time does not change but the 3rd rinse drains/spins and refills if the ER is selected. I've had Westinghouse, Frigidaire (real one), Maytag, Whirlpool.
BTW the Frigiwhite has FIVE rinses counting the first spray and 4 fills. I like rinsing and 4 gallons of cold water costs nothing.
BTW the Frigiwhite has FIVE rinses counting the first spray and 4 fills. I like rinsing and 4 gallons of cold water costs nothing.
I know this is a little off topic for this thread and I apologize....
The 2004 vintage GE TOL washer we had had an extra rinse option, but I think in the entire time we ever owned it for the last 7 years, we only used it maybe once or twice. Never saw a need to rinse more than once I guess.
We actually used the "Extended Spin" cycle much more though.
The 2004 vintage GE TOL washer we had had an extra rinse option, but I think in the entire time we ever owned it for the last 7 years, we only used it maybe once or twice. Never saw a need to rinse more than once I guess.
We actually used the "Extended Spin" cycle much more though.
macboy91si
Well-known member
Extended Spin
I have always wondered if the extended spin helps. Is there a point at a set speed that no more water is extracted. I think GE is the only maker I have seen with this option.
-Tim
I have always wondered if the extended spin helps. Is there a point at a set speed that no more water is extracted. I think GE is the only maker I have seen with this option.
-Tim
Not to upset Mother Superior
but second rinsing should never wear down a machine that is well designed in the first place to do its job correctly. My '78 Frigidaire 1-18 three speed has a second rinse option, which I use occasionally. Also the new Speed Queen's offer an additional rinse option on top of the 3 rinses in the program, leaves the machine sparkling clean.
but second rinsing should never wear down a machine that is well designed in the first place to do its job correctly. My '78 Frigidaire 1-18 three speed has a second rinse option, which I use occasionally. Also the new Speed Queen's offer an additional rinse option on top of the 3 rinses in the program, leaves the machine sparkling clean.
To Doctor Frigidaire
What does wear out a washer then if it is not using it ?
What does wear out a washer then if it is not using it ?
No, it does not wear out from lack of use, but especially on older machines with more metal parts subject to corrosion and rusting, better rinsing further neutralized the alkalinity from the detergents in the machine. The damage is sorta like the way the vinyl failed on the upper racks on the 21 or 22 series KA DWs letting the metal rust when one rinse left everything covered in mineral/detergent film.
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