Family's first airconditioned car

[pcasa]

roadmaster

.. I remember those plexi tubes on Cadillacs .. that was a real status symbol!
I'm also in the Roadmaster Wagon camp after watching Julie & Julia a gillion times

 

[cuffs054]

The Imp collectors site has the service manuals for the early units and makes one reference to "regular and Deluxe" ac units but doesn't explain the difference. I'm going to guess that the Deluxe had the mag clutch on the compressor. Apparently you could get ac on all Chrysler products but the DeSoto info doesn't seem to be the same and there is no explanation.

 

[DADoES]

<blockquote> I never understood people who put on the a/c or the heat "all the way" and then when they start feeling too cold or too hot they shut it off instead of turning the dial or lever down so it's comfortable.. someone I lives with does this LOL</blockquote> I know several people who do that and try to moderate the temp via manual adjustment of the fan speed.  My first car with auto-temp control was the 2001 Infiniti, and it's now a must-have feature.

 

[cornutt]

Ours was a '63 Buick LeSabre very similar to this one. The main thing I remember about it was the very unusual arrangement of the controls. They projected downwards from the underside of the dash headliner. The fan speed and temperature controls, as well as some vent controls, were sliders that you pushed towards the front of the car or pulled back towards you. The mode control was a big black knob with four positions -- A/C, Max A/C (recirculation), Heat, and Vent. There was a pair of outlets for the rear seats that blew air out from underneath the front seats (they were only used for heat since they blew on the feet of the rear seat passengers). I remember the air conditioning being pretty cold and I don't recall that it ever broke down, although when climbing hills it sometimes had to be turned off because it made the engine overheat. Being where we live, every car that my dad bought after that had A/C. My first car, a '57 Chevy Bel Air 4-door, didn't have it, but every car I've owned since then has.

 

[cuffs054]

Dad, totally agree. Interestingly the autotemp in my Cruze (2011) is way better than the one in my 2008 Cadillac SRX. I wonder if it has something to do with where the cars were designed?

 

[cornutt]

Oh, and we did own a '67 Riveria with the Comfortron system, and I remember that little hemispherical cage on top of the dash where the temperature probe hid. Like most of the automatic things on that option-loaded car, it seldom worked properly. One trick it was notorious for was, on a hot day, it would run for a few minutes and then suddenly switch to heat mode, and you'd have to turn it off and wait a minute for everything to stabilize before it would agree to cool again.

 

[philr]

The automatic system in 1967 Rivieras wasn't called Comfortron (Olds and Chevrolet used that system). Buick called their system "Automatic Climate Control" and on the control panel, you could read "Buick           Automatic".

 

This system was completely mechanical (so it couldn't be called Comfortron!) and not reliable. Buick was the first brand to introduce automatic control in 1959 with their "auto heat" system. This system was available with or without a/c and controlled the temperature, the fan speeds and the air distribution automatically just like newer fully automatic systems.  It was offered just for a year and Buick didn't offer an automatic system until Cadillac Chevrolet and Olds started to offer it in 1964-65-66.   Unlike the other GM systems that used electronic sensors, the 1966-67 Buick system relied on 3 thermostats (like oven thermostats with bulb sensors) and was very complicated. It was modified in mid-1967 but the modified system wasn't much better. I owned a 1967 Riviera with the second ACC and I did keep many parts from it but many were bad... In 1968, Buick changed to another mechanical system but this time, used a bi-metal thermostat. Still not good but not as bad as the 1966-67 systems. In 1971, all GM cars got a system that was electronically controlled like the Comfortron and it was more reliable. It was also improved in mid-1974 with the Mark II programmers (these systems also added an "Economy" position rather than a "Vent" position so you could turn on the heat without having the A/C compressor running.

 

The 1967 Riviera GS that I currently have doesn't have the Automatic Climate Control, it just has manual A/C but this one works well at least! My 1975 Electra has the electronically controlled ACC with the Mark II programmer that also works well. By then, it was the same system that Chevrolet (Comfortron) and Cadillac (Climate Control) used but for some strange reasons, Olds stopped to use Comfortron in 1974 and replaced it with their "Tempmatic" semi-automatic system which just controlled the temperature. Buick used that semi-auto system (called Custom-Aire in Buick cars) for just two years in 1976-77 on the Century/Regal/LeSabre/Estate wagon while the Electra and Riviera still offered the fully automatic system. Pontiac had other names for it's automatic and semi-automatic A/C systems and like Oldsmobile, it had an electronically-controlled air conditioning system at first and went with a semi-automatic system in the mid-seventies while Chevrolet kept the fully automatic Comfortron.

 

See the link to see the complete service manual supplement for the second ACC system used by Buick in 1967, the first type used in mid-1966 to early-1967 models is similar but it uses a "liquid vacuum motor".

[this post was last edited: 7/6/2014-22:08]

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1967/Climate Control/ACC 2nd Type/index1.html

 

[DADoES]

 
IIRC, a mid? late? 1970s Oldsmobile I saw labeled the automatic climate control as Temp-Matic or Tempmatic whatever was the capitalization used.

 

[hydralique]

Phil . . .

It has always tickled me to see how far Buick used to go to not copy or even use the same products as Olds and Cadillac!

 

[philr]

The semi-automatic Tempmatic system in Oldsmobiles replaced the fully automatic Comfortron system that they used since the mid-1960s. I think that was a strange move at Oldsmobile since you could still get a Chevrolet Bel Air with Comfortron in 1974 (I've seen that!) but you couldn't get it in the fanciest 98 or Toronado!

Pontiac also replaced the fully automatic system with a semi-automatic at about the same period and in 1976-77, Buick used a semi-auto system on it's "A" and "B" bodies (but "C" bodies still had the fully automatic system). 

 

Olds used the Tempmatic system instead of Comfortron from 1974 to the mid-eighties and that system controlled only the temperature. The fully automatic systems also control the fan speeds and the air distribution. 

 

[mathewhebailey0]

Born in 1972, But I have a history of A/C equipped cars my parents had in the late 1970's,early 1980's. Two 1970's Plymouth Fury wagons,one with yellow exterior,yellow vinyl interior,dad installed a Rockwell AM/FM 8 track stereo unit with a pair of Audiovox speakers,it was a 1978 model Fury, the other Fury was a 1977 Fury II or III,
yellow & faux woodgrain exterior,brown interior & factory AM radio. Then there was a 1970's Chevy Impala,not an SS model my mom drove,can't remember if it was a four door or two door,but had root beer brown interior & exterior & factory AM radio,
believe it had an AC/Delco compressor,had a V8 that was 100 cubic inches down from a 427 cid V8.(327 I think) The '78 Plymoth Fury was originally a company vehicle,dad work as an electronics/communications tech for Natural Gas Pipeline Company,
Then NGPL gave him an early 1980's Plymoth Volare wagon,then later an early 1980's Plymouth Reliant wagon,which was the first front wheel drive vehicle he drove.
Later he drove an early/mid 80's Ford Crown Victoria,white exterior,blue interior,then a mid 80's Crown Victoria with white exterior,but red interior.

 

[philr]

Hydralique, that's true!

Before 1968, Buick even had it's own cruise control systems which were completely different from the system Olds and Cadillac used. Buick had a system called "Electro-Cruise" from 1963 to 1967 which was controlled by the pointer in the speedometer (in cars without the cruise control, this pointer was often used for the speed alert). The other system used in 1966-67 Skylark and LeSabre models equipped with the two-speed ST-300 transmission was called "Auto Cruise Control" and was controlled by the transmission itself. 

 

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1967/Riviera/Owners/pages/Text15_jpg.htm
 

Olds and Cadillac used a system made by Perfect-Circle and Chevrolet used a simpler system that was adopted by all GM divisions by the seventies. 

 

These pics show the cruise control adjustment in my 1965 Wildcat and in my 1967 Riviera. Both cars could accelerate from 0 mph to the set speed just by pressing the setting knob! Once the set speed is reached, the cruise light comes on and the cruise is "locked" in position. Then, if you move the pointer, you can increase or decrease the car's speed without touching the accelerator. 

[this post was last edited: 7/7/2014-01:11]

 

[wayupnorth]

I love this new Silverado I have now with the dual zone climate control. Could not figure out how to get it to especially heat here when it was freezing when using remote start. Technician at my dealership said all you need to do is set temp where you want it and make sure fan is on high, hit remote start on the key fob and it heats or cools where you set it. My father would be in awe with even remote start. My aunt had a late 50's Buick with a safety sentinel that would buzz if you went faster than you set it at and auto dimming headlights. That was a nice car.

 

[whirlaway]

Caddy AC

All of the Caddys still had ac in the trunk till 57,in 57 they were right under the defrosters with flip vents you opened.Oldsmobile and Buick had some models with dash vents in 55.Chrysler products also for the 57 models were front vents,and that nice 2 cylinder compressor.The Eldorado conv for 56 had ac it was right behind the back seat,Ive seen 2 of them,I was really surprised! But for what they cost at the time,you got it all!!! The 53 we had it was not odd for a 60special to have air.But the car didnt have power steering,thats the way it was ordered.My dad bought it from a doctor.We didnt keep that car long went back to Chryslers,it was very troublesome.

 

[philr]

As far as I know (I don't live in the best place to spot 1950's cars with factory A/C!), Olds had an in-dash system in 1955 but not Buick. And I thought they didn't have individual outlets in the headliner anymore by 1955 but according to this link, they still did.

http://www.55buick.com/ac.html
 

I didn't know that Cadillac still didn't use the dash-mounted systems in 1956 but that seems correct! Some 1956 Cadillac convertibles even had trunk-mounted A/C apparently. I'm wondering how that setup left space for the top to fold down!

I know that the series 75 still had trunk-mounted a/c systems for the rear passengers much later. 

 

And about the dual-zone air conditioning. I had that in my 1991 Buick Park Avenue Ultra. I didn't like that car but the A/C system was great (when it worked!). As far as I know, this was the first car to offer a dual-zone Climate Control system. Just a year or two later, many other brands offered it. If I remember well, Oldsmobile had introduced rear passenger a/c vents in the 1991 Ninety Eight and a year later, Buick had that feature and Olds had the Dual Zone feature from Buick...

 

 

[this post was last edited: 7/7/2014-00:38]

 

[supersuds]

Phil, could you explain how the controls on the '67 Riviera work? It looks like the top "slider" is for temp control, then below it are switches for fan speed and recirc/normal/vent/heater, then another slider below that labeled "defrost" and "AC."
Does the bottom slider give you some kind of infinite control of what vent the air comes out? Or is it just two positions?

 

[philr]

The bottom slider gives an infinite control of where the air comes out as long as you don't use the A/C and don't want the air to go in the A/C outlets.  So with the slider on the left, the air is to the floor, in the middle, the air is to the floor and defrost outlets and to the right it's to the defrost only. 

 

But to get that, the 4 position heater and A/C selector has to be on "HTR". That also means you can't defrost the windshield while the A/C compressor running... 

 

In case you're wondering, the slider at the top is for the temperature and on the extreme left position, it also shuts-off the water valve for maximum cooling. The two small levers are for the fan speeds (on the left) and the right one is the selects either REC A/C (recirculation or "max a/c") NORM A/C (without recirculation) VENT (non-cooled air going through the a/c outlets) and HTR for non-cooled air going to the floor and defroster. 

 

With the humid weather we have here, it often happens that when you start the car at night and you switch from "a/c" to "defrost", you get the windshield all fogged-up because the a/c compressor doesn't work in HTR or DEF and there's humidity remaining in the evaporator core. Then it's hard to dissipate moisture from the windshield because the cold engine doesn't heat and if you switch back to a/c, you can't get it through the windshield duct!

To avoid that, I swith the a/c to "VENT" for the a minute when I'm arriving at my destination to evaporate most of the moisture in the evaporator and I move the "DEFROST" slider to the left so the remaining humid air will go to the floor register the next time I start the car.  It would have been much simpler to just add a separate switch for the compressor and allow the user to direct the cooled air wherever he wants... 

 

Manual A/C explained in the owner's manual:

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1967/Riviera/Owners/pages/Text21_jpg.htm
Automatic Climate control explained in the owner's manual:

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1967/Riviera/Owners/pages/Text22_jpg.htm
 

 

[supersuds]

I see. So the temp was controlled by the water valve instead of by air blending.

I remember having cars with no AC (or add on units) where the only thing you could do when you wanted defrosting us wait for the engine to warm up to give hot air -- that or have a rag handy to wipe the condensation off.

 

[philr]

The temperature is controlled by air blending but there's always some hot air leaking through the cable-operated blending door and through the vacuum-operated door that also partially diverts the air from the heater core when the a/c is on. If you get the temperature slider to the extreme left position, not only the air mostly bypasses the heater core with two doors that divert the air away from it, there's also a vacuum line that closes the water valve so the hot water doesn't circulate in the heater core.

 

 1967 Rivieras without air conditioning don't have a water valve for their heater core. When you select one of the two "Vent" positions on the heater control panel of a 1967 Riviera that has no air conditioning, you get outside air from a different duct that doesn't get any heat from the heater core.

 

When I installed air conditioning to my car that originally didn't have it, I had to block that hole for the ventilation in the firewall. 

 

 

That heater system with two vent positions was a new addition to the 1967 Riviera, the 1966 model didn't have the position that allowed to heat the air going through the dashboard outlets. 

Previously, cars without A/C didn't have ventilation outlets in their dashboards, they had vent windows instead. The 1966 Riviera and Toronado were the first cars to eliminate the vent windows. 

 

 

An picture showing a 1966 Riviera with the heater only. 

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/stat...k_Riviera_Brochure/1966 Buick Riviera-09.html
 

And illustrations showing and explaining the 1967 Riviera's modified heater controls. 

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1967/Riviera/Owners/pages/Text18_jpg.htm
http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1967/Riviera/Owners/pages/Text19_jpg.htm

 

[mitch]

Growing up

My family's first car with A/C was a 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 with factory installed air. I remember as a child, laying across the front seat with my head resting in mom's lap, watching the condensation roll off of the chrome vents. Obviously before mandatory seat belts and car seats.

As a teen, my first car with a/c was a 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. The a/c did not work when I bought the car used. A $25.00 junk yard compressor later and I had a/c. I learned a lot on that car .

A lot of good information in this thread!!