First ranges now ovens!

[dj-gabriele]

The other thread about hobs "ignited" my interest towards the matter and now I propose you one about ovens.

I was curious about what you get in other countries (counting the EU as a big country with some regional variations) and what kind you prefer!

Personally my favourite is an electric multifunction oven with "turbo" fan (turboventilazione, a mis-translation of mine from Italian that has nothing to do with jet engines) with catalytic self cleaning walls due to energy constraints.

My main question was about the fact that while shopping for a new oven of that kind, only some brands offered that kind of cooking. Many only had forced convection ovens that had only lower and upper element for multi bake and not a circular element around the fan. It was my belief that all the brand offered a oven with that feature.

Now, we don't bake 4 trays at once everyday but even with 2 that helps!

Another thing is the size!
Standard dimensions here are 60 cm (24 in) but many brands also have oversize 90 cm (36 in) and a few have 70/75 cm (28/30 in) nonstandard units that seem to be gaining a little market share.
What is the "common" size in the other countries? I previously was told that in the US there isn't a "standard" size for built in appliances but what is the preferred oven size?

Ah, I forgot to mention it earlier but the "turboventilata" function is when the top and bottom elements are on together with the circular element and the fan. That is different from forced convection as the circular fan is absent or off.

Another difference is that there isn't a standard of what forced convection is! May sellers (mainly low-mid end) say it is top and bottom elements with the fan on, others only have the circular and the grill and say that forced convection is the circular element with the fan on.
Others, usually top end manufacturers have all the distinctions with "statica ventilata" (fan with upper and lower elements), "ventilata circolare" (fan and circular element) which is in my opinion the true forced convection cooking, and "turboventilata" where top, bottom and circular elements are on together with the fan, this one I only found it in SMEG ovens and Miele's "thermovent plus" or other similar in Bosch/Whirlpool/Smeg/Hoover/ecc. where the circular element is on with bottom element.

 

[ronhic]

Well....

Standard here would be 60cm width either Euro style and built under bench as a single door unit or there is (was) an underbench version with a separate grill.

Alternatively, wall mount the same single door 60cm oven or go for one with a grill underneath or a standard sized oven and smaller lower oven or a true 'double oven' all of which come as one unit....

As for 'fan forced' Electrolux have our domestic manufacturers cornered (owned is better), but even before the Electrolux takeover fan forced generally meant an element around the fan...

 

[panthera]

I notice

that Americans refer to "European Convection" when they mean the oven has a separate element for the convection process. Those ovens tend to be very expensive and also permit combining convection with all the element combinations you mentioned.

For preheating, the slightly older one at my parents' house uses all the elements then switches to the hidden element surrounding the convection fan for convection baking. That configuration makes it possible to cook several rows of cookies at a time and have them all turn out the same.

We got into such a discussion over dimensions a few months ago with me saying, when you have over 10 'standard' sizes in common use, there are no real standards and several others maintaining passionately that there were too standards. So I'll let someone else settle that one. A 30 inch (76.2cm) free-standing range is pretty much what most people have whom I know in the US, with the 24 inch (60.96cm) usually available as a compact version. You can also get 20 inch (50.8) if you have a catalogue number for it, but most 'salespeople' haven't a clue they exist.
The real width is not exactly 30", just like 60cm in Europe is really 59.5cm. It's a bit smaller 29.875 (75.9 cm).

The oven cavity is what really matters - GE promises 22 pound turkeys fit easily even in their profile double-oven 30-inch wide ranges.

And that's the entire reason for having these gigantic ovens - so once or twice a year, you can roast a great big bird.

Self-cleaning ovens in the US tend to run about 10-11KwH at 240, split-phase. That would be over the top in much of Europe, unfortunately. The self-cleaning function is pretty cool, tho'.

I have only negative memories of continuous cleaning ovens from the 1970's. Are they better now? Seems they didn't clean, only smoked and the weird enamel scraped off with a fingernail.

 

[norgeway]

Westinghouse or Frigidaire

NOTHING to my mind,equals these...I had a turquoise Frigidaire in one house I lived in and it was perfect,I do however,think a self cleaning oven would be wonderful...as it is I NEVER broil anything and rarely roast anything uncovered...because oven cleaning is not any fun.

 

[toggleswitch2]

1 inch = 2.54 cm

Wall ovens in the US: Width in inches (Centimeters are rounded i.e. based on 2.5 cm per inch)

gas- mostly 24" /60cm
electric 24"(60cm), 27" (67.5cm) 30" (75cm). These are used on 30a circuits.

Free-standing stoves/ranges (with a cook-top [hobs] and an oven). I ahve seen these on 40a and 50a circuits.

mostly 30" (75cm)
some 20" (50cm)
rarer 24" (60 cm)
rearest 27" (67.5cm) G.E. ONLY, electric AFAIK

pyrolytic cleaning (commonly "self-clean") most favored/demanded.

Catlytic cleaning ("continuous-cleaning") can't be foud in ovens anyomore, except coutertop toaster-oves.

Popular here are over-the stove microwave ovens, some have electric convection ovens. the convetction one has a staonless-stell interor. Both types are designed to use a standard outlet/circuit being 110v 15a or 20a. G.E> make sone that requires 220v and I think 30a. but few buyers relally bought that one.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Are these over-the-stove microwave ovens available elsewhere? (overseas) Are they conmmonly found and popular?

The very "upscale" kithchens tend to avoid them.
I mean look at Gansky's and RickR's kitchens in the other thread.

Here the law requires 30" minimun (say 75cm) between the top of the hobs/burners to the bottom of the microwaver or range-hood. Not always "obeyed"/ followed.

What is done in your country?

 

[toggleswitch2]

.
Fan-forced convection ovens ("fan ovens" in the UK, "convection ovens" in the U.S.) were a big fad years ago, but didn't catch on with everyone.

I'd say they are most popular with fancy /upscale kitchens.

Gas convection ovens here simply have a fan in the rear. Electric convetion ovens usually just have a fan in the rear. "True-convection" with a circular heating elecment surronding the fan are seen, but not that much.

In the 70's in reaction to the "energy-crisis" Tappan made a gas, convection self-cleaner that introduced the heat into the oven via a series of holes (i.e. a grid of holes) at the top of the oven cavity. There was no true broiling/grilling. To quote the manual, grilling/ broiling was "mimiced" at 450*F /232*C(kinda low) by placing the food up close to the holes.

 

[panthera]

IKEA and Whirlpool

offer combi- venthoods/microwaves and I have seen them in Malta, Italy and Greece more than here in Germany.

I had to have the city sign off on the vented to the outside combi- over my parents' stove, and they checked that it was at least 30" over the control panel - but that's Fort Collins, always the nastiest possible interpretation of the rules.

In Europe, you tend to go 230V, 16Amp (not talking about the UK) single phase or direct to three-phase. This sets a practical limit for counter-top units which is still high enough to permit serious convection and microwave at the same time or serious convection and real infra-red grill power.

It's a real pity that we settled for 120V in the US, since the elements of the system shrink as the tension increases, instead of expanding (toggles, don't you dare, I thought of it first), it would be an easy thing to just go up to a reasonable voltage.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Ideally the whole world would be at 230v 60hz. But no one knew the world would have shrunk so much when standards evolved/were established.

Baby steps: Let's get the metric system going first.
Then the world can pay to have aus convert to 230v. LOL

 

[toggleswitch2]

"us" not aus (Australia), LOL

 

[vacbear58]

Over the stove microwaves

are not common in the UK, although Whirlpool do sell one thats combined with an extractor.

In the UK fan ovens are very common indeed (first appearing in the late 1960s), most modern ones have fans except the very cheapest cookers or ovens which have whats called "static" cook, just top and bottom elements. Personally I would not buy an oven which did not have a fan, well not unless it was vintage

It used to the the practice in the UK that the oven elements were on the sides of the oven (ie each side) and were covered by moulded metal plates (for want of a better expression) with groves cut into them to accomodate oven shelves. Broilers (or as we say "Grills") were almost never in the main oven cavity. From the mid 1960s these moulded plates would also be coated with "stay clean" liners which were supposed to burn off "spills and spits" during the normal cooking process - I can think of only one UK cooker (range) with had a self cleaning oven from the mid-1960s - that was the Creda Autoclean.

The trend changed in the 1980s, particularly led by such brands as Neff, Bosch etc. which introduced the continental style - top and bottom elements plus fan which could be used in combination or independently. It was then that single rather than double cavity ovens became common, with teh broiler in the main oven cavity.
Al

 

[dj-gabriele]

Thanks to Toggles for the measures!

Minimum height of counters/hoods above a stove: it is 75 cm here too, for safety reasons and I never seen a suspended microwave like you posted but only integrated models that are at eye-level. But all the kitchens I've seen have a hood that has a fan for either venting directly outside or an activated charcoal filter and a separate extractor for venting outside the air.

Usually the integrated microwave is matching the main oven even if (at least here in Italy) with a standard power contract, it is impossible to run a forced convection oven with a convection microwave as both would draw close to the maximum 16 amps.
Our new oven when in fast heating mode (4 minutes to reach 220°C or 428 °F) has a power of 3,3 kW that is the upper limit of a standard contract and has the option to deactivate it to limit the power to 2,3 kW.

The pyrolitic self cleaning function needs the same power of fast heating and it does for an hour at least so there is a real risk of getting the power cut from the meter if any another appliance is turned on.

Really an American oven needs 10kWh to run pyroclean?!?! You guys sure are lucky to have that power delivered to private homes! Italian made ovens (for sure Hotpoint/Ariston and SMEG) say they need less than 3 kWh of energy to complete the cycle with a power of around 3kW.

 

[panthera]

NO,

The oven doesn't draw 10KwH..., but when the oven is on and the four elements are on, then, yes, they can draw that much.

We solve that problem in Munich with three-phase. Didn't the Italians at one point make a conscious decision that gas would be the primary cooking fuel and electricity has only gradually come to play such a large role, posing big capacity problems?

 

[favorit]

my countertop fan convection microwave combi oven

This 12 y.o. baby is one of the very first Whirlpool-only badged appliances in Europe, still made in the good old swedish Philips plant. No 6th Sense ... those days this feature was on the plain MW ovens only. No need of booklets : the biggest dial is the mains/timer, then the temp dial, the MW power dial and the function dial (MW + grill, grill, crisp, MW, quick heat, forced air, MW + forced air)

It draws 3200 W max ( 1600 W fan/coil + 1600 microwaves)
Since we got this baby, we rarely use the old 24" static oven. It heats up to 200°C in a while (3-4 mins) and with low/med microwave power cooking times are decreased. Cakes bake in half time and better (no more wet, raw "heart").
Chips fry *greaseless* within 7-8 mins with the "crisp" plate
We have this oven on a trailer, so that in summertime we can use it outside in the garden and keep the kitchen cool.

When it will go out of order, we will replace the old 24" static miele with a built in combi oven. The built in Ikea-Whirlpool one cost more or less as the latest whirlpool countertop combies (link to the current TOL one).

For my sake it is a workhorse. Unlike I did with the Bauknecht dishwasher, this time I don't blame Whirlpool

http://www.whirlpool.co.uk/app.cnt/whr/en_GB/pageid/pgwpproddtl001/catid/1/subcatid/5/prodid/29869

 

[favorit]

Keven, according to our codes we can't have 3 phase in domestic household .... unless one has his lab/workshop/... downstairs.

Here big appliances typically draw 2000 W. Those exported in DE and UK were 3000 W. The issue was with imported appliances : when we moved here in 1980 we had to have a 6000 W supply to run both the W and the DW in the meanwhile. Indeed the double coil W could be switched to 2 KW, the single coil DW couldn't)
Today even german appliances draw max 2200-2300 W, so they fit the typical italian 3 KW supply

Anyway partly you're right, Italy moved to gas and imports electricity from France and Switzerland. It's a reciprocal advantage as they can't switch off the nuke power stations on low demand times ... you know well this, do you remember the black out due to wind storms causing too much wind-made electricity 2/3 years ago ?

Electric tank water heaters are getting more and more rare thanks to flow trough gas ones. Don't say takless cause actually my "geyser-style" condensation furnace is connected with a tank. This tank has a solar coil too, so that the Vaillant engages only when necessary