Florida bans Gay marriage

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Here's a link to the particular church involved in the IRS dispute - perhaps you can find some information on their website.

The ironies of this election are bizarre: Christian churches spending vast amounts of money for ads which plainly lied, in violation of the Ten Comandments, and two major minorities who often complain about discrimination voting to deny basic civil rights to other minorities. Hypocrites!

 
Church/Tax exempt

How does one go about getting churches OFF of their tax exempt status?? If they can buy (and do!) tv ad time, donate to political causes, etc. they are no longer benign little houses of worship. The are a business now plane and simple, and must pay taxes like every business does.

Laurent
 
I don't buy it. If you voted no on 8, you knew full well

It hard to believe such a 'disconnect' can be present in a person. What do you mean 'you don't think someone vote for prop 8, but didn't want to discriminate against anyone...' WHAT?!!

 
I totally support gay marrage and what I do not get is why do peopole have a problem with others being who they want tbe. I am sure that I speak for everyone here when I say this but we love who we are and nothing is gonna make us change our minds. for one I really hate it when people think they can tell me what my sexuallity is and who I am. two I really have started getting in peoples faces for discriminating the gay society and all of the people in it. while I was at school I had a couple of girls sit behind me on my bus making fun of gays. I finally had enough and turned around and asked them... "what have we done to you to deserve that type of discrimination?" I really have learned to love and support us in many ways.
Mike
 
This link is not hostile, but the facts speak volumes, religion seems to be a side line relative to the Mormon business empire. The beginnings were benign but now it’s all about the money.

The Mormons gave up on miracles from GOD long ago now they buy miracles with MONEY.

 
I really need some help with this. Every day that passes, and this Prop 8 abomination stands, my blood is boiling harder and harder. WHERE THE FUCK IS OUR STATE SUPREME COURT? Just last May they found marriage is a fundamental human right for same-sex couples, and now we're not hearing a fucking word from them.
 
Jeff, I don't blame you a bit. Maybe spend some time this weekend e-mailing the members of the court and burning their ears.
Also call all the local media and rage on them. Get all your friends to do the same.
Rage on all your local politicians as well.
Make all that anger meaningful!
Make yourself heard!
 
Here you go folks...

The churches did it. And they did whatever they could to get white, black, hispanic, and asian people to vote against gays. It gives a "reason, or cause" to make the members get fired up. Otherwise there would be no reason for the church if they had nobody to hate on.

They also try to get people to vote republican every election.

Churches should pay taxes like any other business, because they take part in swaying which direction people vote.

I have said for years that the Black churches did much to harm the Black Community. And I have also said for years that that ALL churches have done much to harm the Gay Community.

I say TAX the mutha fuccas!!

 
Steve, the justices know perfectly well what they can and should do. The question is, why haven't they?

The court doesn't even need to disallow Prop 8. Since it affects a fundamental human right which they themselves defined just last May, Prop 8 should be classified as a constitutional revision. A revision, unlike an amendment, requires a two-thirds vote of our state legislature to pass -- which they know it won't get.

In the meantime, this silent treatment is killing *me*.
 
What incenses me about this stuff is that neither state nor federal government would ever get away with legislating open discrimination against a tax-paying cross-section of Americans----unless of course they are gay. No other group would put up with it.

I just find it outrageous. It feels good to say I wish there were riots, burning, looting and all kinds of violence, however, that is just not the way of our people---at least in the past----in spite of how that has helped other minority groups. Perhaps in time-------------.
 
I was living in California in 1994 when Prop 187 was voted in by about 70% of voters. It banned illegal aliens from getting social services, education, and medical care(except emergency).

It was overturned by the State Supreme Court on humanitarian and equal protection issues, so there is hope.

Sad that the Hispanics of California voted in majority for Prop 8! Fourteen years ago, the State took their side on discrimination and civil and human rights for thier Mexican breathern who came here illegally, over the wishes of 70% of the voters. The State Supreme court needs to overturn this Prop 8 on the same basis. California does not allow discrimination on sexual orientation, and this Prop 8 was aimed at prohibiting the rights of a protected group under the law. Prop 187 was aimed at Mexicans crossing the border and it was overturned.
 
Rick..

"Churches should pay taxes like any other business, because they take part in swaying which direction people vote".

"I have said for years that the Black churches did much to harm the Black Community. And I have also said for years that that ALL churches have done much to harm the Gay Community".

"I say TAX the mutha fuccas"!!

Well, imagine that! Rick and I can actually agree a bit on something lately! Amazing what continued dialogue can do!
However, I don't believe that all churches are guilty of this. There are a few churches that I know of here in Orlando that don't get involved in politics or preach hate from the pulpit.

Now, what are we, as a unified group, going to do about this?

Jeff- believe me, I feel your pain. I hate the fact that I live in Florida, pay taxes and contribute my fair share only to have 62% of the voters in this state tell me my relationship doesn't matter. We cannot allow ourselves to become complacent about this. We must fight this bigotry.
 
Here's one of the three lawsuits filed on November 5th. Prop 8's fatal flaw is that it simply ignores the Supreme Court's findings of last May.

Regardless of whether it was passed as an initiative or constitutional amendment proposal, it's a clear violation of California's Equal Protection Clause.

 
I read it too . . .

and it was a dissappointing way to begin the day. For too many blacks it seems as if any progress in civil rights must mean some payoff for the black community, or they figure it's not worthwhile. Too bad they don't think their own black gay brothers and sisters are deserving.
 
Well at least we don't have to spend the next four years being "tolerated" by Sarah Palin.

Black Americans have to be educated on this issue, like everyone else. Their churches, like most others, are still firmly rooted in ignorance and falsehood (believing that sexual orientation is a choice, that homosexuality is some kind of moral failing, etc). A 3000+ year tradition of unjust gay bashing is not going to die easily or quickly.
 
Ok, Now I Will Speak

Have tried to stay out of this matter, as one was brought up NEVER to discuss religon or politics, however without any intention of given offence, here goes.

As far as the "black community" is concerened, the "gay" civil rights movement is a bit of a johnny-come-lately on the scene.

African-Americans endured almost 100 years of brutal slavery, then a period of equally brutal Jim Crown/Reconstruction period, leading up to simple out right discrimination leading to the civil rights movement and today.

Yes, "blacks" have made gains, Tuesday's election results are testament to that. However even amoung the black community, Mr. Obama is not the "ideal" black American, (he is bi-racial and considered more "white" than black, which worked in his favour some say as it made him all the more non-threatening to certain aspects of white America), and would have preferred someone like Jesse Jackson or some such from the community, but will take the win anyway they can.

Are gay men and women discriminated against? Of course, but in many of the African American eyes, they have not historically endured their sufferings, nor do they today.

We are not just speaking of economic or social sufferings, but major physical violence, sanctioned by law. Black men and boys have been pulled out of their homes and lynched for reasons ranging from sport, to some white woman miles away made a claim of "rape", by a blackman. It mattered little if the man killed was guilty of any crime, keep hanging/shooting/killing any black you see, sooner or later you will get the "right" one, or if nothing else one can have a good time while keeping the black populace in their place.

Again, not meaning to give offence, but there is a rather strong feeling of resentment in the African American community that gays have compared their lot to the struggle for the former, for all the above reasons.

Indeed many, and not just those in the African American community see gays, especially white gay males and a few women doing very well for themselves. From television, to banking, to finance one sees gay men and women happily going about their business, and in many cases making vast sums while at it.

One of the interesting things about gay marriages is the announcements in the New York Times. One sees gay doctors, hedge fund managers, partners at white shoe law firms and top investment/brokerage houses all white, all quite comfortable. Indeed the New York Times (aka the "Advocate" by many here because if it's seemingly endless slant/promotion of "gay" issues, does not miss an issue where happy gay men or women (some with their children), are shown happily beaming from their pages.

The upshot to all this is the preception that the "gay marriage" movement is nothing more than wealthy or at least upper middle class white gays trying to "force" their agenda onto society and remove any remaining stigma keeping them from their place at the top table.

Again, these are not my views, nor does one share them, just letting you all know how things on the ground are playing out.

Sorry if the above gave offence, I did not mean it.

L.
 
Keven, the notion that black people have somehow "paid more dues" than gay people in their struggles for freedom and equality is, to be blunt, a load of hogwash. Blacks endured a few hundred years of slavery, while homosexuals have been stoned to death, boiled in oil, lynched, executed, tortured etc for over 3 THOUSAND years. Even today, read some of the "victory" speeches from the "Yes on 8" campaign and you'll hear the exact same condescending arrogance, bigotry and ignorance that was enshrined as a "religion" in the Bible, 2500-3000 years ago.

There was a rather nasty editorial written by a black lesbian in today's L.A. Times. She was saying this fight for marriage equality is a waste of time, simply because it doesn't address other race problems (police discrimination, e.g. "driving while black", income disparity etc). It's an absurd argument, like saying we shouldn't encourage and celebrate the development of a polio vaccine, simply because it doesn't cure AIDS.

My mind is reeling with plans, if our state Supreme Court doesn't do its job and throw Prop 8 out. If I'm to be a permanent second class citizen, the state can kiss my taxes goodbye. Churches who sponsored and pushed for this amendment will be subject to national boycotts and protests, and legislative efforts to tax them out of existence. Father Geoff Farrow, a friend of mine in L.A. has additional ideas:

 
Plus, black people don't have to "come out of the closet" Imagine sitting down with your family...."I got big news, I hope you still love me,....I'm Black!!
 

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