Flour Question....Robin Hood

[norgeway]

I am forever trying out new products, and today I found a bag of All Purpose flour in a local store called Robin Hood, has anyone here ever heard of or used this product, I have seen an ad for it in an old magazine, but this is the first time ever actually finding it...???Is it good, bad,????

 

[danemodsandy]

Canadian!

Hans:

Robin Hood Flour is a Canadian brand.

What this means in practical terms is that it's probably a higher-protein flour than you're accustomed to, and results in biscuit-making will not be as tender as you'd probably like, being in the South. Lower-protein flours, more common in the South, absorb less liquid and that's part of what gives the light result a Southern biscuit-maker is after.

As you know, White Lily was the gold standard for Southern biscuit-making for decades, until new owners decided to move production from the historic Knoxville, TN mill to other plants in the Midwest a few years ago (there are other differences as well). White Lily was from lower-protein wheat, very light, and made the most ethereal biscuits of any flour. No more; The New York Times tested both new and old versions of White Lily at the time of the changeover, and found a very noticeable difference. There's a link to the NYT article at the end of this. As the article notes, a lot of people moved on to Martha White Flour.

Oddly, White Lily is now owned by Smucker's, and Robin Hood is part of the Canadian Smucker's company.

You'll probably find the Robin Hood very good for bread-making, but less desirable in biscuits and pie crusts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/dining/18flour.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0o

 

[mattl]

We've had Robin Hood Flour here in MI forever. Very common brand and always has been. In the past I've never been too picky about my flours and bought what ever was on sale, but as I'm learning from the various posts here each f lour has its own characteristics.

 

[danemodsandy]

Matt:

I want to make sure no one thinks I'm denigrating Robin Hood. I'm sure it's a very good product.

My comments were based on knowing that Hans lives in the South, where I grew up, and is probably used to very different flour than we have here in the Midwest. Biscuits rule where he lives.

 

[norgeway]

Biscuit Making...

Well...Im sure it will only be used for bread and maybe a pound cake, I make biscuits at least three times a week...only with a soft winter wheat self rising flour, Yeltons best or my favorite Virginias Best made in Elliston Va by Big Spring Mill, as for pie crust a harder wheat flour just might be what I need as my pie crust is always too tender, I usually give up and use one of the refrigerated crusts, because what I make usually tears all to pieces when I try to get it into the pie pan!! pastry is NOT my strongest skill!!!!

 

[norgeway]

White Lilly..

White Lilly used to be my favorite also, but there is a BIG difference in what is sold now,Another good soft wheat flour is Southern Biscuit, I have good luck with it also.

 

[petek]

There's quite a few versions of Robin Hood flour here,,cake and pastry, the regular all-purpose and "The Best for Bread" varieties,white, whole wheat etc.which have
more gluten in it. They may not sell all the varieties down there..
Give it a try and see what you think,, be interested in knowing how the biscuits turnout.
I didn't know that Smuckers had bought them

Here's the website

http://robinhood.ca/

 

[maytagbear]

The Robin Hood Flour

that used to be sold in Ohio was higher in protein than Gold Medal or Pillsbury Best, and better for yeast bread.

For the last 5 or so years, I have been using King Arthur All Purpose (dark red striped bag), King Arthur White Whole Wheat ( Light tan striped bag,milder flavor, natural, and all the fiber of stronger flavored whole wheat,) and King Arthur Better for Bread Flour (blue striped bag.) I have had lots more baking success with King Arthur Flours than with any other, even my long term favorite, Gold Medal Unbleached.

King Arthur now has a self rising flour, which has lower protein than the all purpose flour..... Lower protein flour makes better biscuits.

King Arthur is an employee owned company, and has a great catalog and website. Their searchable recipe database is amazing.

Link is to their site.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

http://kingarthurflour.com

 

[Iowegian]

@norgeway:

I have also found that a workable but tender pie crust is an elusive thing. For so few ingredients there seem to be an insurmountable number of variables...yet all my aunts and grandmas could make do with whatever they had - go figure. And lots of times I use those ready-crust products, especially around Thanksgiving.

But I have found that substituting half of the butter for lard seems to work pretty well. As long as you're not keeping too close track of your cholesterol and lipids...

I'm not sure that using a harder wheat flour would be the best way to go. Too much potential for gluten formation, I'd think.

I did see a TV show recently ("America's Test Kitchen" on PBS) where they advocated using a significant amount of vodka in place of water - apparently the vodka keeps the dough wet and pliable while working it, but the alcohol doesn't allow too much gluten to form, and it evaporates out during cooking. I haven't tried that method, so I can't attest to it. But it was an interesting idea.

 

[xraytech]

Robin Hood flour has been around here for ages as well.

It seems around here when buying name brand flour most people, myself included buy Robin Hood. On occasion if it is on sale for less I'll buy Gold Medal flour.

Being a northerner biscuits are just not something I make.
Most of my flour consumption is for pies, breads and dinner rolls, pierogi, gnocchi,doughnuts, and some cakes, other cakes I use Swans Down cake flour

 

[bajaespuma]

It's an old brand; I remember my Grandmother using it be

That NYT article was interesting and informative; thank you for posting it. Bakers have their favorite flours and I have to respect their choices. But I don't have to eat it. What the NYT article failed or avoided clarifying is that although some people may like the texture that chlorination produces in wheat flour, it destroys all the natural flavor chemistry of the flour and most of the important nutrients, other than starch and a small amount of protein. Whether you're from the North or the South, if you're eating a product whose largest ingredient is flour, don't you want that flour to be milled to as close to it's natural state as possible?

 

Do you want to drink wine made from Thompson seedless grapes?

 

Maybe you do and the final answer is always, different strokes for different folks.The idea that people would like the taste of a bleached flour is analogous to the people who tell me that they prefer the taste of Cool Whip to real whipped cream. There is nothing to be done about that, but nod your head and walk away. We are never going to agree and I would no more expect them to give up their Cool Whip than I would be expected to give up my whipped cream. Food snobbery is always subjective.

 

Robin Hood Flour is an old brand and I remember it from my youth. I would no more recommend it to a baker today than I would recommend a General Electric Washing machine today based on the Filter-Flo's of the mid-20th century. Read the package and find out if the flour is a. Bleached, b. Bromated.

 

Also, if making Southern-style biscuits is your passion, experiment with different flours, by all means, but I would start with 13 ounces of King Arthur All-Purpose Flour with 2 ounces wheat or corn starch added for every 1 pound of "White Lily" or another so-called southern "soft" flour. You might also go to the King Arthur site and order some white Pastry flour (NOT whole wheat). I believe their Pastry flour is made from Soft Spring Wheat which will yield a tender product. You might also try getting some Italian "00" (double zero) flour. I make my biscuits with KA all-purpose flour, buttermilk, baking soda and low-moisture butter and I'll put them up against any that Nancy Sue La Pune Tangue can rustle.

 

[Iowegian]

Bleaching of wheat flour is not accomplished by chlorination, but by bromination. Bromination is used to make flour nice and white, not to change the texture. Marilyn Monroe may well have lightened her hair with Clorox, but people like ADM, Pillsbury, General Mills, Cargill, Bunge, ConAgra, et al don't use hair bleaching techniques to treat wheat flour.

Many millers sell "unbleached" wheat flour, meaning it hasn't been brominated. The texture is exactly the same as brominated flour.

How do the Italians make Caputo 00 flour look so nice and white? Caputo is the undisputed king of pizza dough flour, just like Parmagiano Reggiano is the undisputed king of cheeses.

 

[petek]

It's my understanding

Potassium bromide are/were used to strengthen the dough (dough enhancers) and make it rise more consistently, not really for bleaching it.. It's been banned in Canada and Europe. Citric acid is now the preferred agent,, you can buy it at most drug stores, health food stores or bakery supplier in powder form and add it to your flour at home. Citric acid is basically vitamin C powder.
Flour is still bleached white though with chlorine gas or some other methods to make it whiter.

 

[Iowegian]

Vitamin C is ascorbic acid, not citric acid.

Please explain how potassium bromide "strengthens" dough.

Extra credit for explaining how potassium bromide causes hypothyroidism, though.

Even more extra credit for explaining how Linus Pauling got spanked for claiming how Vitamin C would fend off cancer.

 

[mixfinder]

Hold the Bromate and Pass the Chlorox

Flour bleaching agent is a food additive added to flour in order to make it appear whiter (freshly milled flour has a yellowish tint) and to oxidize the surfaces of the flour grains and help with developing of gluten.

Usual bleaching agents are:
Organic peroxides, namely benzoyl peroxide
Calcium peroxide
Nitrogen dioxide
Chlorine
Chlorine dioxide
Azodicarbonamide
Atmospheric oxygen, used during natural aging of flour

Use of chlorine, bromates, and peroxides is not allowed in the European Union.

Flours treated with bleaches and improving agents (bromides, diatastics) generally show higher loaf volume and finer grain. However, people with very sensitive palates can detect a slight bitter aftertaste.[1]

Chlorinated cake flour improves the structure forming capacity, allowing the use of dough formulas with lower proportions of flour and higher proportions of sugar. In biscuit manufacturing, chlorination of flour is used to control the spread – treated flour reduces the spread and provides a tighter surface. The changes of functional properties of the flour proteins are likely to be caused by their oxidation.

In countries where bleached flour is prohibited, plain flour can be treated in a domestic microwave oven to produce similar chemical changes to the bleaching process. This improves the final texture of baked goods made to recipes intended for bleached flours.[2]

 

[danemodsandy]

Ken:

"Whether you're from the North or the South, if you're eating a product whose largest ingredient is flour, don't you want that flour to be milled to as close to it's natural state as possible?"

Not if you're from the South and biscuits are involved. You want a light, tender, flaky result that serves as a butter and gravy mop. Nothing else matters. Even a slight off-taste or bitterness from bleaching would be undetectable to the average Southern diner, because biscuits are intended to be heavily buttered, slathered in jelly, jam or honey, or mopped through pools of sausage or red-eye gravy.

It's a regional thang.

 

[polkanut]

My Grandma Baumann and her older sister, Alvera, were prolific yeast bread bakers and Robin Hood was their brand of choice forever.  Their mother also used Robin Hood.  I prefer Gold Medal, and buy nothing else.  For cake flour I'll use Swans Down if it's on sale, otherwise I will use Softasilk. 

 

[norgeway]

BISCUITS!!

I WANT the flour I make biscuits with to be bleached!!!and it must be very finely milled soft winter wheat, That is why White Lilly was so well loved!! you had beautiful fluffy buiscuits, not grey coarse ones, the Robin Hood flour seems similar to Gold Medal,so it will be good for yeast breads, but for biscuits, I will stick to a good old Self Rising bleached, soft wheat flour!!Virginias Best is STILL the best!

 

[polkanut]

Bay State Milling has a mill at Mooresville, NC which produces hard spring wheat flours, hard winter wheat flours, and soft red winter wheat flours.  Their Wingold H & R is a biscuit flour.  Might be worth investigating.