Fluorescent lighting, and the mercury issue

[Cybrvanr]

The energy thread brought up an interesting point...what places more mercury in the environment, using CFL's and disposing of them, or using incandescent lighting?

In short, the question would be a no-brainer, since incandescant lights aren't constructed with mercury. BUT...buring coal emits mercury into the air. Coal-fired power plants produce 50% of the electricity in the USA.

Since a CFL typically consumes 1/4 the amount of power that an incandescant lamp of the same brightness, that is reflected in the amount of coal burned at the power plant to illuminate it, thus less mercury is emitted from the coal plant.

Would I be correct on this thinking? It's worth looking into.

 

[dalangdon]

According to the Seattle City Light (our city-owned power company)

"CF bulbs contain about 4 milligrams of mercury sealed in the glass tubing of the bulb. Mercury vapor converts electricity into light. No mercury is released when the bulb is in use. Unbroken, burned-out CF bulbs emit no mercury. But broken bulbs or tubes can harm human health and the environment.

Therefore, compact fluorescent (CF) bulbs or fluorescent tubes may not be thrown away with your regular garbage. They must be disposed of at a free Household Hazardous Waste (HHW) site (Seattle Municipal Code 21.36.026)."

I have had CFL's in my basement for a year now. When one burns out, I suppose I'll just put it in the pile of stuff I take to the hazardous waste station occassionaly.

We're very fortunate in this part of the country that we have mostly renewable energy (If you consider Hydro renewable, and yes, it does have it's own unique problems) so mercury emissions from power plants aren't an immediate issue.

 

[tolivac]

I too use CFL's and HID lamps-Metal Halides.In modern Flourescent bulbs,CFL's and HID bulbs less mercury is used.It was found the larger amounts was not needed.In fact the larger doses of mercury bulbmakers used caused MORE problems-like the premature blackening on the ends of flourescent bulbs and blackening of metal halide bulb arc tubes.This caused the light bulb to be LESS efficient,and shorter life-not to mention the pollution problem at landfills.At my workplace the spent flourescent bulbs are packed in a "recycler" box and shipped to a recycler.At home-I too just throw them out.I don't have to throw many out either.for my use-they last for a few years-think how many incandscent bulbs that would be?That is MORE of a burden to the fills.Some CFL bulbs and HID bulbs contain KR-85-before panicking this slightly radioactive gas inproves the efficiency of the bulb and allows it to last longer.The amount in the bulb is so tiny it is not a hazard.Look on the bulb label-it does have to specify it.You will see "KR-85" somewhere on the bulb if it has it.Most are argon filled as the "carrier" gas to help in starting of the bulb and vaporizing the mercury as the bulb warms.Mercury in a bulb alone is VERY inefficeint.It won't vaporize in very cold temps.-and with that the lamp won't start.I just love the light emitted by the CFL's and Metal halides-Incandescents look like candles in comparison-the HID's and CFL's are more like real sunlight-more blue light!Incandescents and halogens don't have that.Actually harder on your eyes!Incandescents and halogens have two advantages over HID-instant light and no ballast.the metal halides take a couple of minutes to reach brightness and "color"For comparison a 70Watt Metal Halide can put out the same light as a 300W halogen with MUCH less heat.A 100W Metal Halide can put out the same light as a 500W halogen.

 

[sudsmaster]

Mercury in fluorescent lights is nothing new. The 4' and 8' long tubes, most often used in commercial/industrial buildings, have had it for years.

As pointed out, most muni waste agencies now require that residents separate out the CFL's and other fluorescent fixtures so that the bulbs can be recycled to recover the mercury and keep it out of the environment. That's a good thing. In my locale, the county provides a hazardous waste depot without charge for this (and other) purpose. It's an interesting place to visit. Last time I was at one, I picked up some vintage laundry products, as well as vintage automotive oil quarts, from a special area they had set aside. (The vintage automotive stuff is useful for "displays" of antique cars at auto shows/meets).

Virtually all the lighting in my home is fluorescent. The sole exceptions are appliances that can't take fluorescent (like the ovens) or where flourescent won't work very well (like refrigerators), or where there is no fluorescent fixture that will fit (like xmas tree light sized bulbs in water dispensers or in the Neptune doors).

I'm always looking for ways to conserve electricity at home. CFL's are a big help there.

Down the pike, I expect that LED technology will provide yet another energy efficient lighting solution. For some reason, though, it hasn't appeared yet, except in small niches like flashlights and nightlights. I think color temperature and color index are part of the reason - it may be difficult to produce an LED light with good color rendition. But nobody can deny what efficient light sources LED's are.

 

[dalangdon]

LED's

I've been thinking of investing in some LED Xmas lights. Does anyone have any experience with them?

 

[nasadowsk]

I had a few GE CFLs a few years ago. Great lamps, only real defect was they took a few seconds in the cold to get bright, and when they failed, holy crap, you knew it! *BBBZZZT!*

 

[jonv112]

LED Christmas Lights

I got my set at Costco, and personally, I like the look alot better than the standard lights. The lights seem to be more "full" with LEDs than with incandescents, and i also think that they look better in the dark. They will almost never burn out, are always cool to the touch, and they save ALOT on energy, especially if you like to keep them on all of the time. I would recommend them to anybody, and they are getting cheaper by the day, and if you're lucky, you may be able to get them at a discount from an energy saving program incentive or something.

HTH

 

[toggleswitch]

I was looking to find an article on the toxicity of mercury that I had read in the past.

My understainding is that a small amount (as would be found in a thermostat) can pollute acres upon acres upon acres of rivers and land if disposed of improperly.

Thanks so much for the info! Now I would like check and see where CFs get disposed of here.

Mercury poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks for the link, Toggle.

I've known about the hazards of organically bound mercury since the 70's (where we learned about Minimata disease in our biochem courses), but wasn't familiar with the extremely high toxicity of methylmethylmercury. Nasty stuff.

The controversy over mercury in dental fillings is interesting. It would seem to me that potentially bacteria in the mouth - especially in the case of older fillings that start to "leak", might combine with mercury in the fillings and form some of these more toxic compounds.

 

[tolivac]

I also have some early mercury vapor rectifier tubes that came out of older AM and TV transmitters.These had more mercuiry in them than mercury vapor rectifiers made later.I dealt with some transmitters that still had them into the 90's even though solid state rectifier replacements are available for any mercury tube except some thyratrons.RCA 5-10H AM transmitters used thyratron rectifiers in the HV power supply.also in power supplies of 15Kv and higher mercury vapor tubes can be an X-ray hazard.But loved the nice blue glow-and when overloaded-they glowed blue-white.
LED lights are getting better-some flashlights and lanterns now have whiter colored light-rather than the blue white light from early "white" LED bulbs.I also have an Ultraviolet LED flashlight-can sure see the rat-mice urine trails at the workplace.also another mercury filled device I dealt with was tower light flashers-older ones were a glass or plastic tube filled with mercury-and contacts inside the tube allowed it to conduct when it was tilted so the mercury covered the contacts.Usually the motor that rotated the cam that tilted the tube failed-and remember (they always do it on cold windy days)standing on a tower replacing the motor or tube.And sometimes with the AM transmitter on-The RF gave a real TINGLY feeling thru your shoes into your feet.At trhe workplace where I am at now some of the transmitters have mercury filled "Ignatron" tubes that are used as a "crowbar" in the HV power supplies.They short the HV supply when an Overload is tripped-and also the primary voltage to the power supply is opened.The crowbar would then discharge the energy stored in capacitors and reactors safely-but not always.

 

[dalangdon]

Mercury used in vaccinations (as a preservative) has been linked to increased incidents of Autism as well. At one time (and this still may be true, I'm not sure) babies getting their first shot, right after birth, were given a shot with mercury preservative in it.

If you are a parent, ask your pediatrician about a mercury-free preservative. Just as effective, just safer for a kid. It doesn't matter so much to us adults-we're already got a lot of it in us.

 

[peterh770]

I thought mercury came from tuna.

 

[dalangdon]

Oops, I was wrong....

I got it all mixed up: They DON'T think that mercury in vaccines causes autism, but they have reduced the amount in vaccinations for babies just because it's not a real good thing to be putting in kids, and they have found alternatives that work as preservatives.

But if you are concerned, you should still ask your pediatrician, because some still have higher amounts of mercury in them.

Peter, Mercury shows up in tuna (and other fish) quite frequently because of their diet. There's a lot of naturally occuring mercury in water anyway, but mercury from coal-fired power plants is compounding the the problem.

Fish just naturally accumulate mercury in their system anyway, so when there's more mercury out there, there's more mercury in fish. Since Tuna is one of the most popular fish, it's the one people are concerned about the most.

Coastal fish, like salmon, tend to have less Mercury in them for some reason.

 

[peterh770]

Isn't that because salmon like colder water, so the mercury level is lower?

(ducks and runs)

 

[dalangdon]

Peter, It took me a second to get that one....

I'd forgotten all about mercury thermometers! I remember once my mom broke one, and she was trying to coral all of mercury beads that had gone all over the place.

She's 81 now, so it must not have done her any permanent damage

Is Mercury still in the old-timey bulb thermometers that you get for gardens and stuff?

 

[sudsmaster]

In California at least, mercury thermometers have been banned for consumer sale for a couple years at least now. I still have a couple of oven glass mercury thermometers, though. They work great, much better than the metal coil type, which are an approximation at best.

When I bought this house in '97, I refinished the floors myself (took about a month off for that and painting and moving etc). I made the mistake of plugging the floor sander or shop vac into a switched outlet. The switch in the wall was mercury, and it blew. I tired to pick up as much as I could, but I suppose there's still a bit inside the wall (some of it must have fallen though the junction box). So far I don't think I've sufffered any ill effects, but I don't use that room that much (living room) anyway.