Frigidaire FL Failed Bearing Issue: Related to too much suds?

[frontloadfan]

I purchased my Frigidaire FL in 1998 and the bearings went out on it this year. I would have considered having it repaired, but preferred to purchase a much larger FL than investing $300 to $400 in replacing the bearings on the Frigidaire.

I know my experience is not unique as the bearings seem prone to go out on this machine. When the Maytag Repairman came to trouble shoot my new front loader, we had a discussion about bearings going out. He stated that in his opinion, the bearings were prone to going out after people use too much detergent and the machine over suds. Once the suds go high in the machine, they can break through the seal and destroy the grease that protects the bearings.

I had never heard or thought of this possibility before. And yes, I was guilty of this offense. Part of the problem is the detergent people provide a measurement cup that shows level 1 (light load) level 2, and level 3. Level 1 is like about 1-1/2 inches of soap! The Maytag repairman says that a good guide is to only use as much soap as the width of your little finger. Just for the record, I am talking about HE detergent as I never used regular detergent at all.

He also explained that my new machine has a feature where it will detect oversudsing and will empty out the machine as many times as needed rather than running with too much suds. I am glad it has the feature as I have learned that sometimes an item like comforters will not absorb the subs or water and even using limited amounts of detergents, you end up with a subsing issue.

Any case, I have turned a new leaf and will adher to the small finger rule when it comes to the amount of detergent!

While on the subject of HE detergent, I notice that Costco has a new HE detergent (its own brand, Kirkland) with no dye or perfume.

 

[rinso]

Hello Frontload: My 1997 Frigidaire FL had a bearing failure only 4 1/2 years after its purchase. Electrolux offered to replace the part (the whole rear outer tub) free of charge, if I would cover the labor. When it was disassembled, it was easy to see that it was actually a seal failure like you mentioned. My service person told me the same thing yours did about high suds. I asked him why my 1979 Westy FL was still working, and had never had a tub bearing failure, or had H.E. detergent used in it. His answer seemed to make sense. He said that in his opinion, the faster spin speeds of the newer machines were only part of the issue. All spinning tubs will create heat in their seals and bearings from friction, even with the best bearings. But, in the older machines, the bearings and seals are pressed into metal outer tubs which do a much better job of dissapating the heat generated, than do the newer plastic outer tubs. There is simply no place for the heat to go, but remain in the bearings and seals. Add some suds or water, and a 950+ RPM speed and the stage is set. Just wondering if this postulation has any merit.

 

[spiraclean]

Bearing Failure

Hi Folks,
I would question that somewhat.
I will bring your attention to the wheels on any car; they use bearings and a seal just as a front load washer does, except in a car the stresses involved are many times greater than in any washing machine. So why do car wheel bearings not fail constantly? Take for example driving for an hour in the rain your cars wheel bearings are subjected to an hour of high speed running in a wet environment, if the seal failed the bearings would eventually fail and well within the warranty period of any new car.
I honestly believe that washing machine manufacturers design the bearings to fail simply to get you to buy a new machine or pay their repair man to fix the machine.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[rinso]

Good point, Hugh. So basically, it could mean that the my old Westy just may have had a superior design.

 

[spiraclean]

Hello Gene,
Yes without doubt the Westinghouse was fitted with a superior seal and bearings.
All manufacturers’ use what’s called (Mean Time to Failure) in other words they know exactly how long any component will last and what failures can be expected with any product.

All the best.
Hugh

 

[tomturbomatic]

Westinghouse or White-Westinghouse had a very bad run of seals and bearing failures in the 80s. Some of it might have been the switch to non-phosphated detergents and the resulting build up of minerals in washers, but older Westies were going along fine while the newer ones were failing. We did not see any mineral buildup on the tub shaft or seal when we replaced a few. It was the seal letting the water through to the bearing. There was a rusty and white detergent trail from the bearing down the back of the outer tub.

 

[rinso]

Interesting, I must have just lucked-out. I visited my old Westy last night and it's still running strongly. (Though not spinning particularly fast, I think they had a spin speed of only about 525 RPM) Over the years since its purchase, the most annoying repair it has needed is repainting of the inside of the door, which was not porcelainized. A solenoid here and there, a belt or two, have been the only real repairs. Even the motor is original.

 

[westytoploader]

Yikes...that's not a good sign as far as my Dual-Tumble is concerned...

 

[kenmore1978]

newer Westy failures

So maybe THAT'S why CR always rated White-Westinghouse FL machines as having "poor frequency of repair record" It baffled me since the mechanism in those machines was WAY simpler than any TL machine, not very much to go wrong. I bet this bearing thing is what gave them the bad rep.

 

[kenmore1978]

wheel bearings

"Take for example driving for an hour in the rain your cars wheel bearings are subjected to an hour of high speed running in a wet environment"

The seals on car wheel bearings are waterproof. They wouldn't last very long, either if water was allowed to get into them. They are also roller or ball bearings which distribute the load much better than the typical bearing, and the grease used to lubricate them is TOUGH, very slippery and designed to withstand the heat both from running and from the braking system

 

[tolivac]

Wheel Bearings "2" Not only in the entry above-but those wheel bearings have another VERY TOUGH job to do-support the weight of the car and whats in it!!
Think about the job of wheel bearings on locomotives--These have to support the weight of a 300-400 ton locomotive!!and car bearings can be loaded to 100 tons per axle!!No wonder why trains have "hot boxes"The bearing journal box gets so hot it ignites brush along the tracks and esp as the bearings start to come apart!!

 

[kenmore1978]

Hot boxes

Trains don't get "hot boxes" anymore. That was from the days when the bearings just plain bearings that were lubricated by cloth "waste" contained in a journal box and saturated with oil. I don't thin the AAR (American Association of Railroads) even ALLOWS those anymore. All bearings are roller bearings, like on cars, and every railroad has trackside heat detectors that look for hot bearings and send a signal to the dispatcher & engineer.

 

[tolivac]

Thats good on the trains-figured that the bearings have changed-I do know that Timken Roller bearings are used a lot in trains,cars and heavy machinery where the bearings have to support heavy rotating items-or high torque items.In one Video I have on "operating a Steam Locomotive" they show the wheel bearing lubricant checked before each run and each time the loco is filled with water.They used a very thick grease in them that is put under a cover removed by a wrench above each wheel bearing. The grease is in a large cake or block.I can remember as a child picking up balls from the bearings from along side the tracks-found a few.They were very rusted and old.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Westinghouse washers had less than stellar reliability records from the time CR started collecting the records. It was more than bearings, because those were not that much of a problem except for that run in the 80s with bad seals. They scored in almost every category of washer woe such as leaks, pump problems, timer problems & motors to name 4 that I can remember, but came up to average reliability when the new, unslanted tub was introduced. I remember that from when I was lobbying for a Westinghouse in 1965.

 

[jetcone]

Rinso

I think your repair guy may have something there on the heat dissapation around the bearing housing as the tub shaft would expand and push off the seal around it.

I have yet to see a 1950's Westinghouse with bearing failure, that was a solid design with quality parts.

Bearings fail when dust or water get by the seals and when the bearing begins to fail it lets the shaft wobble. As the shaft wobbles that lets in more water/dust and also stretches the seal beyond its tolerance which lets even more gunk into the bearings.

Seals on the bearings ( not the tub shaft) are expensive and I was told by my bearing guy that most bearing manufacturers today have gone and cheapend their bearing shields in order to stay price comepetitive.
He told me the only bearing to buy now is MRC and you will pay double what you would for any other bearing.

I put new bearings into my 1970 GE Combo two years ago they were not MRC and guess what they failed last winter miserably!

Think about that, GE put in low cost bearings in 1970 which lasted to 1994 and I put in low cost bearings in 2002 which failed by 2004!
I think by bearing guy is right seals are alot cheaper than they used to be.
Now I have to tear it all down again and put in MRC's.
If the shield on the bearing can hold up then the tub seal really is secondary.

But that overheating is a very interesting issue that should be looked at further!

Now my 1994 Neptune has not failed but I will go look and see what kind of housing they are in, wether it is all plastic or metal bracing molded in plastic.

jet