toploader55
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Just in from Google.
Funny... Front Loaders are Junk
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If front loaders are junk, why have they been successfully used in Europe and other parts of the world for decades? HMMMM?
Trailer Trash
Could not tell who was squawking the most, her or the parakeet with dirty water. Time to have some new supports installed before the trailer gets completely knocked of its foundation. I love front loaders.[this post was last edited: 3/6/2011-15:14]
Could not tell who was squawking the most, her or the parakeet with dirty water. Time to have some new supports installed before the trailer gets completely knocked of its foundation. I love front loaders.[this post was last edited: 3/6/2011-15:14]
Oh My..!!!
Shes missed the pre-fix out of "SOME" and even then...
Is it UNDERLOADED
Is it on a Suspended Wooden Floor ( I see tiles but know people cover board) out the window doesnt seem ground level...
But Hey we`ll never satisfy everyone!!! ...Lol
She needs to go and buy the latest upgrade patch version sudz v2.1 with added glowwhite that will sort it out!!!
Shes missed the pre-fix out of "SOME" and even then...
Is it UNDERLOADED
Is it on a Suspended Wooden Floor ( I see tiles but know people cover board) out the window doesnt seem ground level...
But Hey we`ll never satisfy everyone!!! ...Lol
She needs to go and buy the latest upgrade patch version sudz v2.1 with added glowwhite that will sort it out!!!
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
sorry but i for one am one that don't love front loaders call me old fashion on this but i think that top loaders are more wash efficiant than front loaders and vibrate least on the final spin as well as saving time when it comes to washing a 14 minute wash is more than engough for wash time than having a 40 minute wash sorry but this is my 2 cent on this
cfz2882
Well-known member
i like mine...
i have 3 front loads,2 on daily driver row-i like mine,especially the maytag
neptune 3000-i know a lot of people don't like the neptune,but mine had been
great-did figure out it had to have a level and stable footing or it would
not get to top spin speed with an imballanced load,leveled up with a solid
footing it handles imballanced loads very well.
when i bought the neptune in non-working order,there were several things
wrong with it but the fixes were easy and the"dirty sneaker"odor it had has
gone away....
i have 3 front loads,2 on daily driver row-i like mine,especially the maytag
neptune 3000-i know a lot of people don't like the neptune,but mine had been
great-did figure out it had to have a level and stable footing or it would
not get to top spin speed with an imballanced load,leveled up with a solid
footing it handles imballanced loads very well.
when i bought the neptune in non-working order,there were several things
wrong with it but the fixes were easy and the"dirty sneaker"odor it had has
gone away....
3beltwesty
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Looks Like my LG WM2501HWA
Interesting.
It looks just like my LG WM2501HWA I got in November 2010.
Mine will vibrate like that If it was just placed in a different area and one did not level it; ie not all four legs hitting the floor.
I suspect that the machine was never set up at first at all and just shoved in place.
This machine has a better balance scheme than a lessor LG and will work on a 2nd Floor; a friend got one like mine and has it on a 2nd floor.
The machine only weighs 197 Lbs out of the box, real light compared to my 1976 westy which is about 260 to 270 Lbs.
http://www.lg.com/us/appliances/washers/LG-steam-washer-WM2501HWA.jsp
Interesting.
It looks just like my LG WM2501HWA I got in November 2010.
Mine will vibrate like that If it was just placed in a different area and one did not level it; ie not all four legs hitting the floor.
I suspect that the machine was never set up at first at all and just shoved in place.
This machine has a better balance scheme than a lessor LG and will work on a 2nd Floor; a friend got one like mine and has it on a 2nd floor.
The machine only weighs 197 Lbs out of the box, real light compared to my 1976 westy which is about 260 to 270 Lbs.
http://www.lg.com/us/appliances/washers/LG-steam-washer-WM2501HWA.jsp
3beltwesty
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If that washer is really in trailer;
she might have the unlucky combo where the washers natural frequency during the SPIN cycle aligns with the floor's natural resonance and thus one is driving the floor at its natural frequency
Thus trying a different spin speed might be tried.
she might have the unlucky combo where the washers natural frequency during the SPIN cycle aligns with the floor's natural resonance and thus one is driving the floor at its natural frequency
Thus trying a different spin speed might be tried.
haxisfan
Well-known member
Spin speed?
I wonder what max spin speed these folks' previous TL washer had!
Frankly... I don't get it! In over a third of a century (or half a century in the case of my family) personal experience with FLs I am yet to see or hear of anything like this... nor have my friends or family!
Old FL had a tendency to jump or maybe scoot due to an occasional imbalance cos’ of the lack of an auto balancing system but the majority of them had heavy duty shock absorbers and springs and they were sturdy enough to cope with an internal ‘kick’ only when the spin cycle was being launched (with an unfortunate unbalanced load)... without causing any unwanted movements to the cabinet.
The new ones don't usually have this problem if they rely on a decent balancing system. A FL generally has a much harder job than a TL to cope with the potential vibes of an unbalanced load as they have to deal with gravity rather than spinning a statically positioned load of clothes rested on a turning flat surface, hence the presence in these of stabilizing weights and suspension system.
I posted two links below, in one you see how an FL washer without balancing system behaves (the spin cycles start from the 8th minute onwards) and in the 2nd link you see the lovely effects of an unbalanced load in a TL.
I wonder what max spin speed these folks' previous TL washer had!
Frankly... I don't get it! In over a third of a century (or half a century in the case of my family) personal experience with FLs I am yet to see or hear of anything like this... nor have my friends or family!
Old FL had a tendency to jump or maybe scoot due to an occasional imbalance cos’ of the lack of an auto balancing system but the majority of them had heavy duty shock absorbers and springs and they were sturdy enough to cope with an internal ‘kick’ only when the spin cycle was being launched (with an unfortunate unbalanced load)... without causing any unwanted movements to the cabinet.
The new ones don't usually have this problem if they rely on a decent balancing system. A FL generally has a much harder job than a TL to cope with the potential vibes of an unbalanced load as they have to deal with gravity rather than spinning a statically positioned load of clothes rested on a turning flat surface, hence the presence in these of stabilizing weights and suspension system.
I posted two links below, in one you see how an FL washer without balancing system behaves (the spin cycles start from the 8th minute onwards) and in the 2nd link you see the lovely effects of an unbalanced load in a TL.
haxisfan
Well-known member
Sorry... the link above refers to the unbalanced top loader... below is the one for the unbalanced front loader.
3beltwesty
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Haxisfan;
that woman's FL washer might be in a house on wheels,
ie one that is a prefab trailer type house that once in place is on jacks/blocks; and usually its wheels removed.
Some of these "homes" are really 2 halves that are bolted together.
The floor on one of these is way less stiff than a slab house; which has a 4"/100mm thick concrete slab on the earth
Some prefab trailer type houses are like a flimsy 2nd floor.
that woman's FL washer might be in a house on wheels,
ie one that is a prefab trailer type house that once in place is on jacks/blocks; and usually its wheels removed.
Some of these "homes" are really 2 halves that are bolted together.
The floor on one of these is way less stiff than a slab house; which has a 4"/100mm thick concrete slab on the earth
Some prefab trailer type houses are like a flimsy 2nd floor.
haxisfan
Well-known member
Hi 3beltwy...
but she must have had another washer there before... perhaps it was a lower spin model and did not create vibrations to such extend. I hope those birds won't die of thirst by the time the washer finishes the cycle
but she must have had another washer there before... perhaps it was a lower spin model and did not create vibrations to such extend. I hope those birds won't die of thirst by the time the washer finishes the cycle
3beltwesty
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The LG WM2510HVA FL machine here looks exactly like hers and has no issues with vibration at any load level I have used from 1 to 24 Lbs, but here I have a slab house and I spent 1 minute to adjust the leveling feet.
If one of four the shipping bolts was still in place I would think her machine would vibrate more than her video's vibration problem.
A remote issue is there is a bad shock in her washer.
My bet is the unit is not level.
Sadly I did not even use a level; I just tightened the 4 feet on mine so they all contacted the floor and the gap from washer to floor looked the same. ie I assumed the slab is level
If one of four the shipping bolts was still in place I would think her machine would vibrate more than her video's vibration problem.
A remote issue is there is a bad shock in her washer.
My bet is the unit is not level.
Sadly I did not even use a level; I just tightened the 4 feet on mine so they all contacted the floor and the gap from washer to floor looked the same. ie I assumed the slab is level
haxisfan
Well-known member
Well... I wish people would get their levelling sorted before putting stuff in bad light like that. I've seen many ppl (anywhere in the world) who use their machines without removing any of the transit bolts... let alone leaving just 1 in! Then, of course, they complain about shaking dramas!
One neat feature I noticed in some TL washers is that they have a levelling eye incorporated to the top of the cabinet. I've never seen this feature in FLs, probably it's generally assumed that the user would make some kind of arrangements to overcome stability issues... as it is, to say the least, imperative for a suspended tumbler to have its four feet firmly on the ground.
One neat feature I noticed in some TL washers is that they have a levelling eye incorporated to the top of the cabinet. I've never seen this feature in FLs, probably it's generally assumed that the user would make some kind of arrangements to overcome stability issues... as it is, to say the least, imperative for a suspended tumbler to have its four feet firmly on the ground.
no, no, no..
You know.. I made my old Candy jump, I put the whole wet bathrobe on the one side of the drum, and started spin without rotating.. It was literally jumping.. I even filmed it.. (link), but NO, there was NO WAY that you could feel it on the flor 5cm away from it.. not on the other side of the room like on this case!
But she is kinda funny.. I laughed while I was watching that vid xD
You know.. I made my old Candy jump, I put the whole wet bathrobe on the one side of the drum, and started spin without rotating.. It was literally jumping.. I even filmed it.. (link), but NO, there was NO WAY that you could feel it on the flor 5cm away from it.. not on the other side of the room like on this case!
But she is kinda funny.. I laughed while I was watching that vid xD
golittlesport
Well-known member
funny
That floor is definitely not a cement slab. I thought to myself "she must live in a mobile home" when I watched her video. Same problem a lot of folks with older homes have if the laundry is on the second floor.
I have a second floor laundry and front load washer, but the house is newer and built very well. No vibration at all. And no odors either because I read the directions and know how to properly use it.
That floor is definitely not a cement slab. I thought to myself "she must live in a mobile home" when I watched her video. Same problem a lot of folks with older homes have if the laundry is on the second floor.
I have a second floor laundry and front load washer, but the house is newer and built very well. No vibration at all. And no odors either because I read the directions and know how to properly use it.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
my washer dryer is on the second floor and i can say that what i don't like about my front loader is the when it go into its spin sequance it not only vibrates but it echos as well so this is another thing that i don't like about front loaders but i rarely notice this when i had a top load washer so thats why in a way i am going back to a top load washer when the front loader i have breaks
toploader55
Well-known member
From what I've read here...
The Front Loader "Stink" issue is due to Cold water washing and Nasty residue built up inside the Outer drum.
I do not own one yet as I was pursuing a Front Loader recently and that was one of my concerns. But as I said, I do not own one yet and never wash in Cold Water.
The way she is whipping around that Cam Corder, I am thinking she must have had a few "Beverages" during Laundry Day and has had it with Poorly Trained Techs.
Although yes, it could be the construction of her home as well.
The Front Loader "Stink" issue is due to Cold water washing and Nasty residue built up inside the Outer drum.
I do not own one yet as I was pursuing a Front Loader recently and that was one of my concerns. But as I said, I do not own one yet and never wash in Cold Water.
The way she is whipping around that Cam Corder, I am thinking she must have had a few "Beverages" during Laundry Day and has had it with Poorly Trained Techs.
Although yes, it could be the construction of her home as well.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
me i would not say this since i always wash in cold water as it saves energy and never had bad smells in my whirlpool duet washer and the only time i use the hot water temp is when i wash bed sheets other wise i wash in warm water and cold water
Front Loader!
If it's LG of course its junk!
If it's LG of course its junk!
3beltwesty
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Here I suppose I will junk mine in 5 years and it would thus so cost 120 bucks per year to use.
hoovermatic
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This TL v FL argument will rumble on for ever and ever and from the many hundreds of post on here about it I hazard a guess that the manufacturers of FL machines for the USA market have a few things to learn before they are going to win over some people.
However, I am totally baffled by the issue with mould and bad odours from USA FL machines. Like many in the UK and Europe, in all the 30+ years I have been using/coming in contact with them, I have NEVER come across this problem nor met or heard of anyone who has. I can't begin to think why it is a problem and as that dreadful woman in the video pointed out, she has to buy another product to keep the machine clean!!
However, I am totally baffled by the issue with mould and bad odours from USA FL machines. Like many in the UK and Europe, in all the 30+ years I have been using/coming in contact with them, I have NEVER come across this problem nor met or heard of anyone who has. I can't begin to think why it is a problem and as that dreadful woman in the video pointed out, she has to buy another product to keep the machine clean!!
paulc
Well-known member
Hoovermatic
I think part of the problem is the majority of US detergents do not contain oxygen bleach, plus people in the US tend to have a laundry day, so if they close the door on the machine it may be sitting for several days before the next load is ran. My M.I.L uses Liquid detergent and shuts the door between washes and the boot on her machine is black with mold.
I think part of the problem is the majority of US detergents do not contain oxygen bleach, plus people in the US tend to have a laundry day, so if they close the door on the machine it may be sitting for several days before the next load is ran. My M.I.L uses Liquid detergent and shuts the door between washes and the boot on her machine is black with mold.
3beltwesty
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Re "However, I am totally baffled by the issue with mould and bad odours from USA FL machines"
Here as an American too I am baffled too; since both out 1947 and 1976 Front loaders never had these issues at all.
The Mold issue is really NEW to American front loaders, since the FL machines have been used here about 70 years now.
Mold and bad smells with American Front loaders is a new thing with American Front Loaders, on some models after the mid 1990's. ie when the Average Joe really started to use them a lot more.
Thus from say 1940 to 1995; ie over 1/2 century we had ZERO mold and bad smells on our FL washers. New FL machines came out in the 1990's, then newbies blamed everything known to man except the darn new washers.
Most Americans really never used a FL washer before 1995; thus naturally newcomers blame detergents, cold washing, versus a design issue.
One has a complex set of reasons,
new washers leave water still in the tub. The smelly washer site says 1 to 2 gallons. An American front loader from 50 years ago leaves a few cups.
Old washers had porcelain tubs and spin baskets; new uses plastic, stainless and aluminum.
One has Top Load folks who are use to using gobs of soap
A neighbors 1990's Maytag Neptune FL washer stunk so bad "one had to hold ones hose to walk through the laundry room" or "it smells like an open sewer"
Newcomers to FL washers here in the USA cannot accept that us older FL users have older FL machines with no smell issues, even with cold water and liquids.
Thus the poor less robust new FL designs are defended; and the blame is placed on the water and soaps, NOT the washer.
Here I never heard of smells and mold from a FL washer until a Neighbor had the smelly Maytag Neptune, ie 50 years after our first 1947 FL washer. At first I thought is was a JOKE, ie like smelly car bumper, or smelly iron board iron.
Besides mold and smells; one has in the USA Aluminum spider failures with modern FL washers. That half corroded Aluminum spider has crud growing in it.
Here as an American too I am baffled too; since both out 1947 and 1976 Front loaders never had these issues at all.
The Mold issue is really NEW to American front loaders, since the FL machines have been used here about 70 years now.
Mold and bad smells with American Front loaders is a new thing with American Front Loaders, on some models after the mid 1990's. ie when the Average Joe really started to use them a lot more.
Thus from say 1940 to 1995; ie over 1/2 century we had ZERO mold and bad smells on our FL washers. New FL machines came out in the 1990's, then newbies blamed everything known to man except the darn new washers.
Most Americans really never used a FL washer before 1995; thus naturally newcomers blame detergents, cold washing, versus a design issue.
One has a complex set of reasons,
new washers leave water still in the tub. The smelly washer site says 1 to 2 gallons. An American front loader from 50 years ago leaves a few cups.
Old washers had porcelain tubs and spin baskets; new uses plastic, stainless and aluminum.
One has Top Load folks who are use to using gobs of soap
A neighbors 1990's Maytag Neptune FL washer stunk so bad "one had to hold ones hose to walk through the laundry room" or "it smells like an open sewer"
Newcomers to FL washers here in the USA cannot accept that us older FL users have older FL machines with no smell issues, even with cold water and liquids.
Thus the poor less robust new FL designs are defended; and the blame is placed on the water and soaps, NOT the washer.
Here I never heard of smells and mold from a FL washer until a Neighbor had the smelly Maytag Neptune, ie 50 years after our first 1947 FL washer. At first I thought is was a JOKE, ie like smelly car bumper, or smelly iron board iron.
Besides mold and smells; one has in the USA Aluminum spider failures with modern FL washers. That half corroded Aluminum spider has crud growing in it.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
me i have a front loader that dates from 2004 and never had mold or bad smell issues because when i wash in cold water or warm water i use least detergent than what is recommended on the detergent liquid bottle instruction and at least half a month or before the month ends i use afresh washer cleaner when recommended and when not needed i start the washer and let it run a full cycle with no clothes in it and leave the door open or half open and always open the detergent dispenser drawer to see if there is exess water if so i open and close the dispenser witch gets rid of the extra water or empty it by hand.
hoover1100
Well-known member
over 1/2 century we had ZERO mold and bad smells on our FL w
Well, that's not true, as people have reported on here memories of vintage machines that smelt due to misuse.
It's interesting how most of the machines I have access to (aside from my parent's Miele) have plastic outer tubs, aluminium spiders and use very little water, yet none of them have ever had even the slightest hint of smells, residues, build ups or mould, have only ever known of a drum spider failing on one machine, and that was a machine that never saw hot water, was only used with liquid detergent (i.e. no oxygen bleach) and was always left with the door shut.
Perhaps the issue is that U.S. detergents (be it powder or liquid) rarely contain oxygen bleach, and it seems to me, do not contain zeolites or phosphonates (which are the reason our detergents clean just as well without phosphates as they did before they were removed). If people do not add seperate bleach (be it oxygen or chlorine based) and live in hard water areas but do not have a mechanical water softner, the machine is going to be a haven for bacteria, full of soils deposited from the wash and mineral scale.
Perhaps a machine with less plastic parts and a better designed wash profile OR raised water levels will be less prone to these issues, but when used CORRECTLY, a cheaper modern front loader will not suffer these issues either.
It's not what you've got it's how you use it afterall
Matt
Well, that's not true, as people have reported on here memories of vintage machines that smelt due to misuse.
It's interesting how most of the machines I have access to (aside from my parent's Miele) have plastic outer tubs, aluminium spiders and use very little water, yet none of them have ever had even the slightest hint of smells, residues, build ups or mould, have only ever known of a drum spider failing on one machine, and that was a machine that never saw hot water, was only used with liquid detergent (i.e. no oxygen bleach) and was always left with the door shut.
Perhaps the issue is that U.S. detergents (be it powder or liquid) rarely contain oxygen bleach, and it seems to me, do not contain zeolites or phosphonates (which are the reason our detergents clean just as well without phosphates as they did before they were removed). If people do not add seperate bleach (be it oxygen or chlorine based) and live in hard water areas but do not have a mechanical water softner, the machine is going to be a haven for bacteria, full of soils deposited from the wash and mineral scale.
Perhaps a machine with less plastic parts and a better designed wash profile OR raised water levels will be less prone to these issues, but when used CORRECTLY, a cheaper modern front loader will not suffer these issues either.
It's not what you've got it's how you use it afterall
Matt
cfz2882
Well-known member
foul odors...
myself,i have only delt with two washers that reeked;my F/L maytag neptune
when i first got it,and a very grubby 24"DD top load kenmore-i was able to
get the odors out of both quite easily.
myself,i have only delt with two washers that reeked;my F/L maytag neptune
when i first got it,and a very grubby 24"DD top load kenmore-i was able to
get the odors out of both quite easily.
I've had front-loading washers since 1986, and have never had an odor problem. The new Frigidaire 4474 is the first machine I've owned with a CLEAN WASHER cycle, which prompts me to do so every 50 cycles. I sometimes put off using that cycle for an extra 10-20 loads, but I eventually run it. It fills and tumbles with the cleaner (Tide Washing Machine Cleaner, as that's what's available; the manual suggests a massive dose of chlorine bleach). The CLEAN WASHER cycle uses about 7 gallons of water (two fills) and takes 41 minutes.
I use liquid chlorine bleach in 2-3 loads per week. A couple of years ago, I washed exclusively in cold water for about 10 months (but still used LCB on whites) and had no problems.
I always pat the boot dry, wipe down the glass in the door, and empty any standing water from the dispenser drawer---which also stays open between washings.
I use liquid chlorine bleach in 2-3 loads per week. A couple of years ago, I washed exclusively in cold water for about 10 months (but still used LCB on whites) and had no problems.
I always pat the boot dry, wipe down the glass in the door, and empty any standing water from the dispenser drawer---which also stays open between washings.
3beltwesty
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Matt;
my take is that old American FL washers never had any mold issues; and the new 1990's American FL washers were built by engineers really with zero experience in Front Loaders.
The 1976 FL westy's mechanism design about from 1955, the pump from the 1940's. The spin basket and tub from about 1962 to 1988 was about the same. The 1988 to 1993 units just added a German torquer motor with the 1960's parts.
When a new design say the American FL of the mid 1990's is reborn, about all the old farts who sweated subtle details were retired or long dead. Thus to me it is not really surprising that early Maytag Neptune FL washers DID have design issues that caused mold.
In Europe, I am not sure if there ever was a giant ramp up of Front loaders when before few used them.
Look at the USA's problems with front wheel drive cars, we did not get these right with our first models either.
Frigilux;
RE "I use liquid chlorine bleach in 2-3 loads per week. "
Here I only wash about 2-3 loads per week. I have never used any chlorine bleach in my new LG FL I got last November.
When I ran the 1976 FL Westy from 2006 to 2010, I only used chlorine bleach a few times a year. I used it mosty after Katrina. Even before Katrina the machine from 1976 to 2005 was not used much with chlorine bleach at all. I might buy a gallon jug every year and more than half would be used for non laundry stuff. The point I am trying to make is with older FL machines that had no mold issues, many of us used liquid detergents and little chlorine bleach.
my take is that old American FL washers never had any mold issues; and the new 1990's American FL washers were built by engineers really with zero experience in Front Loaders.
The 1976 FL westy's mechanism design about from 1955, the pump from the 1940's. The spin basket and tub from about 1962 to 1988 was about the same. The 1988 to 1993 units just added a German torquer motor with the 1960's parts.
When a new design say the American FL of the mid 1990's is reborn, about all the old farts who sweated subtle details were retired or long dead. Thus to me it is not really surprising that early Maytag Neptune FL washers DID have design issues that caused mold.
In Europe, I am not sure if there ever was a giant ramp up of Front loaders when before few used them.
Look at the USA's problems with front wheel drive cars, we did not get these right with our first models either.
Frigilux;
RE "I use liquid chlorine bleach in 2-3 loads per week. "
Here I only wash about 2-3 loads per week. I have never used any chlorine bleach in my new LG FL I got last November.
When I ran the 1976 FL Westy from 2006 to 2010, I only used chlorine bleach a few times a year. I used it mosty after Katrina. Even before Katrina the machine from 1976 to 2005 was not used much with chlorine bleach at all. I might buy a gallon jug every year and more than half would be used for non laundry stuff. The point I am trying to make is with older FL machines that had no mold issues, many of us used liquid detergents and little chlorine bleach.
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