4.8 cu. ft. with heat pump dryer technology. Said to wash & dry a 10 lb. mixed load in 2 hours (see useer guide) Supposed to be on market June 2023.
GE Profile Combo Washser/Dryer at KBIS 2023
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verizonbear
Well-known member
Here are some details, 120 volt , interesting
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...Future-of-Laundry-with-an-All-In-One-Solution
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...Future-of-Laundry-with-an-All-In-One-Solution
Thanks Phil,,.
<blockquote>The UltraFast Combo not only eliminates the transfer step, but it saves time with its ability to wash AND dry a large load in about 2 hours.</blockquote> I'm dubious on this claim until I see it happen ... 2 hrs wash to finished-dry with non-vented heat-pump drying?
normal cycle
How will the washing and drying perform on the normal cycle?
How will the washing and drying perform on the normal cycle?
Neighbors have a 120 volt Whirlpool washer and separate heat pump dryer connected to cold water. Washer shakes alot in spin and dryer takes well over 2 hours to dry any load . And then you have to empty a full container of water. Jerome, an old GE filter flo set would get it done in less than half the time. Unfortunately they are not here anymore.
launderess
Well-known member
Aside from Miele (even then only their commercial laundry line) along with IIRC Asko and Bosch no one is offering 208v-240v washers or dryers in USA for domestic laundry appliances.
Since GE is going with a heat pump dryer in theory need for high wattage heating power is diminished. By going with 120v this unit can be marketed as a "plug and play" replacement for standard washer and dryer without requiring special wiring.
Since GE is going with a heat pump dryer in theory need for high wattage heating power is diminished. By going with 120v this unit can be marketed as a "plug and play" replacement for standard washer and dryer without requiring special wiring.
launderess
Well-known member
About 6kg give or take does seem to be upper limit for combo units if one wants to avoid hassle of having to take half load out of washer before drying starts.
Unlike USA across pond combo units never truly faded out, there long as been decent enough market for such appliances despite various drawbacks. Switching over to heat pump instead of standard air or water cooled condenser dryers is a game changer however.
https://reviewed.usatoday.com/laundry/content/aeg-heat-pump-laundry-combo-first-impressions-review
Unlike USA across pond combo units never truly faded out, there long as been decent enough market for such appliances despite various drawbacks. Switching over to heat pump instead of standard air or water cooled condenser dryers is a game changer however.
https://reviewed.usatoday.com/laundry/content/aeg-heat-pump-laundry-combo-first-impressions-review
That sounds perfect.
GE
Here is a short video
Here is a short video
Everything old is new again !!!!
jerrod_six
Well-known member
This sounds good If I didn't have space for two separate units. However, with the space, I would not consider it. I don't mind the heat pump, but why have hours tied up in one machine doing one load, when I can have one load washed and put into a dryer, and then have the next load washing as the first load is drying? Let's keep it moving!
2h sounds dubious
No, not really.
4.8cuft is about 135l.
10lbs is about 4.5kg.
That - first of all and most importantly for drying - gives you the 1:20 ratio conventionaly regarded as required for fast and even drying.
Then, an EU stand alone heatpump dryer can dry 4kg of laundry spun at just 1000rpm (60% residual moisture) in about 90min.
This has probably a 1200rpm spin or higher in a bigger drum, getting you 50% residual moisture or less.
Given that most washers on the US market offer some kind of TurboWash equivalent, 30min for a wash and 90min for a dry seem reasonable.
I think that 120-180min is reasonable for most loads in this device, dry to dry.
A heatpump dryer can be surprisingly fast - especially at 120V - if you have enough space to give it proper airflow rates and a big enough heat exchanger.
You can do that in 24" EU sized cabinet for a dryer alone no problem.
Now, this machine "only" has a 4.8cuft drum in what appears to be a 27" cabinet but with a greater height than normal and maybe even an inch more depth.
Leads me to believe they basically designed a 27" heat pump dryer base into a pedestal, then added some air flow channels into a 27" washer by shrinking the tub a bit. Stack it and connect it, done.
Basically any current EU A+++ class dryer can dry 8kg of laundry (17-18lbs) with only 1.5kWh of energy usage in less than 3h from 60% residual moisture - that's the energy label testing.
They use a 400W heatpump and a 100-150W drum/fan motor.
That's an equivalent heating/drying power of just about 1.5kW.
If you can fit just that into the cabinet, you are basically already there.
Biggest challenge is getting good enough airflow and fitting a lint filter somewhere.
But given you have the additional space of a 27" cabinet, I don't see why that isn't doable.
I do think the price is absurdly good for that kind of appliance though.
A normal TOL frontload washer and dryer are probably more expensive than that - and they aren't even heatpump.
I am also somewhat of the opinion that the only reason there aren't any good full size heatpump dryers out there for the US isn't price, technical disability or even cost per se.
It really is only the lower margins one would have to accept and the probably lower demand.
Given all that space in a 27" cabinet, you could easily beef up the heatpump power - the already high needed airflow comes natural to US dryers.
No, not really.
4.8cuft is about 135l.
10lbs is about 4.5kg.
That - first of all and most importantly for drying - gives you the 1:20 ratio conventionaly regarded as required for fast and even drying.
Then, an EU stand alone heatpump dryer can dry 4kg of laundry spun at just 1000rpm (60% residual moisture) in about 90min.
This has probably a 1200rpm spin or higher in a bigger drum, getting you 50% residual moisture or less.
Given that most washers on the US market offer some kind of TurboWash equivalent, 30min for a wash and 90min for a dry seem reasonable.
I think that 120-180min is reasonable for most loads in this device, dry to dry.
A heatpump dryer can be surprisingly fast - especially at 120V - if you have enough space to give it proper airflow rates and a big enough heat exchanger.
You can do that in 24" EU sized cabinet for a dryer alone no problem.
Now, this machine "only" has a 4.8cuft drum in what appears to be a 27" cabinet but with a greater height than normal and maybe even an inch more depth.
Leads me to believe they basically designed a 27" heat pump dryer base into a pedestal, then added some air flow channels into a 27" washer by shrinking the tub a bit. Stack it and connect it, done.
Basically any current EU A+++ class dryer can dry 8kg of laundry (17-18lbs) with only 1.5kWh of energy usage in less than 3h from 60% residual moisture - that's the energy label testing.
They use a 400W heatpump and a 100-150W drum/fan motor.
That's an equivalent heating/drying power of just about 1.5kW.
If you can fit just that into the cabinet, you are basically already there.
Biggest challenge is getting good enough airflow and fitting a lint filter somewhere.
But given you have the additional space of a 27" cabinet, I don't see why that isn't doable.
I do think the price is absurdly good for that kind of appliance though.
A normal TOL frontload washer and dryer are probably more expensive than that - and they aren't even heatpump.
I am also somewhat of the opinion that the only reason there aren't any good full size heatpump dryers out there for the US isn't price, technical disability or even cost per se.
It really is only the lower margins one would have to accept and the probably lower demand.
Given all that space in a 27" cabinet, you could easily beef up the heatpump power - the already high needed airflow comes natural to US dryers.
New GE full-size combination. Washer dryer.
It’s always been in inevitable. that this product will come back to the market both for the US and the rest of the world. And transferring a load of laundry from the washer to the dryer has always been a pain in the neck with the days busy lifestyles. It’s much nicer to throw a load in and come back and have it done. This will also eliminate the mold and mildew problems that some people had with front loading washers.
This should also allow a self cleaning condenser system as it will wash itself compared to other heat pump and condenser dryers.
It makes so much sense now that front loading washers are the smart choice for energy and performance. There’s no reason not to combine trying in the same unit
I think you’ll see a number of other companies introduce similar products to this, and the cost should come down .
Hopefully they’ll make some simpler versions. I don’t like dispenser systems for detergent on washing machines because too many service problems.
John.
It’s always been in inevitable. that this product will come back to the market both for the US and the rest of the world. And transferring a load of laundry from the washer to the dryer has always been a pain in the neck with the days busy lifestyles. It’s much nicer to throw a load in and come back and have it done. This will also eliminate the mold and mildew problems that some people had with front loading washers.
This should also allow a self cleaning condenser system as it will wash itself compared to other heat pump and condenser dryers.
It makes so much sense now that front loading washers are the smart choice for energy and performance. There’s no reason not to combine trying in the same unit
I think you’ll see a number of other companies introduce similar products to this, and the cost should come down .
Hopefully they’ll make some simpler versions. I don’t like dispenser systems for detergent on washing machines because too many service problems.
John.
I would like to see a unit that runs on 220-240 volts for the US market.
Jon
Jon
Reply number 14
Yes, indeed, Jon
With a 208 or 240 V power source they could put a stronger compressor in and shorten the drying time another 20 to 30 minutes. They could also make a Coldwater only machine that could do a decent job of heating the water needed for washing clothing. It would be more energy efficient, especially in all electric houses were using electric heat the water anyway,
Full-size combos will be back.
John.
Yes, indeed, Jon
With a 208 or 240 V power source they could put a stronger compressor in and shorten the drying time another 20 to 30 minutes. They could also make a Coldwater only machine that could do a decent job of heating the water needed for washing clothing. It would be more energy efficient, especially in all electric houses were using electric heat the water anyway,
Full-size combos will be back.
John.
KBIS demo video
This was just put on You Tube about an hour ago.
This was just put on You Tube about an hour ago.
GE
Very impressive - I would wait awhile before I would make a purchase just to make sure it Works good!
Very impressive - I would wait awhile before I would make a purchase just to make sure it Works good!
Same
I don't think that the design will be fundamentally flawed.
However, there are probably many components in there that could be failure points early on.
They - probably - will use an inverter heatpump and maybe even a variable speed drying fan like Haier uses on the TOL Fisher & Paykel heat pump dryer available in parts of the EU and Australia.
Programming all that is a task, and all these electronics can easily have bugs that can lead to early failures.
Nothing that wouldn't be ironed out in a second or third revision.
But better safe than sorry.
I am very happy about how they layed out the drawer though.
Still lots of manual dosing possibilities even with 2 large automatic dosing tanks.
I don't think that the design will be fundamentally flawed.
However, there are probably many components in there that could be failure points early on.
They - probably - will use an inverter heatpump and maybe even a variable speed drying fan like Haier uses on the TOL Fisher & Paykel heat pump dryer available in parts of the EU and Australia.
Programming all that is a task, and all these electronics can easily have bugs that can lead to early failures.
Nothing that wouldn't be ironed out in a second or third revision.
But better safe than sorry.
I am very happy about how they layed out the drawer though.
Still lots of manual dosing possibilities even with 2 large automatic dosing tanks.
Due to its height, it looks like it's being squished between those pillars.
I noticed the Sanitize cycle is one that needs oxi. I also had to laugh at his "a full-sized load... of 10 pounds" statement. Not quite sure what to think of GE being able to track how much time passes between the end of the cycle and the user opening the door. With connected everything, it's not surprising - but I was a little surprised nonetheless.
Will be interesting to see how this unit performs.
I noticed the Sanitize cycle is one that needs oxi. I also had to laugh at his "a full-sized load... of 10 pounds" statement. Not quite sure what to think of GE being able to track how much time passes between the end of the cycle and the user opening the door. With connected everything, it's not surprising - but I was a little surprised nonetheless.
Will be interesting to see how this unit performs.
Tracking of user data
Being "on the inside" of such things now, they can track anything anyway anytime once you connect your machine.
If marketing wants to make some claim, they send someone on the software development team a request to insert that tracking feature in the next app update.
And within 6 weeks, you have your market research data, on the cheap.
I did not realise that it's a Sanitize with oxy cycle.
For such a premium appliance, I am somewhat surprised if they do not include a washing heater.
Load size is a thing there...
It is effectively the size of what an old school TL with agitator could wash, just for non stop washing and drying.
Being "on the inside" of such things now, they can track anything anyway anytime once you connect your machine.
If marketing wants to make some claim, they send someone on the software development team a request to insert that tracking feature in the next app update.
And within 6 weeks, you have your market research data, on the cheap.
I did not realise that it's a Sanitize with oxy cycle.
For such a premium appliance, I am somewhat surprised if they do not include a washing heater.
Load size is a thing there...
It is effectively the size of what an old school TL with agitator could wash, just for non stop washing and drying.
This is how it looks inside of the 24" Electrolux combos with heat pump.
The ELux HWD design
Is very "good" in ways and very "bad" at the same time.
They basically took a simple base washer dryer and bolted the heat exchanger on top.
That made it very easy to design and thus the first on the EU market.
Especially in the EU form factor, making a heatpump washer dryer combo is surprisingly hard.
Heatpumps rely on large heat exchangers and very good airflow, both things that just take up a lot of space.
They made it a tiny heat exchanger and a comparatively high power compressor with the compressor in the bottom of the machine.
Servicing is a nightmare.
Dry times aren't impressive. And it certainly is more efficient than a normal combo.
But nowhere near the potential.
LGs washer dryer combo with heatpump IS very efficient, but even slower.
That gets around the space issue by completely different means.
LG uses a moving drum inside a stationary tub - their "Centum" design.
With that, they can move the whole free travel of the suspension into different spaces - mainly horizontally in the base of the unit.
Thus, they mount fan, compressor and heat exchanger DIRECTLY onto the fixed tub at the top.
Combine that with an inverter heatpump and you get the efficiency you really should be getting.
That however leads to other problems.
The "Centum" system is pretty delicate for balancing, not very water efficient and known to eat socks.
Haier/GE used the fact that the US form factors are a lot more variable.
They took the 27" cabinet, filled it with a "one size down" tub and drum and stretched the cabinet by the height of a pedestal.
They then used the pedestal space as the dryer unit area.
Which in turn means you can have a normal wash unit with typical spin characteristics AND all the space of a typical dryer base unit.
Is very "good" in ways and very "bad" at the same time.
They basically took a simple base washer dryer and bolted the heat exchanger on top.
That made it very easy to design and thus the first on the EU market.
Especially in the EU form factor, making a heatpump washer dryer combo is surprisingly hard.
Heatpumps rely on large heat exchangers and very good airflow, both things that just take up a lot of space.
They made it a tiny heat exchanger and a comparatively high power compressor with the compressor in the bottom of the machine.
Servicing is a nightmare.
Dry times aren't impressive. And it certainly is more efficient than a normal combo.
But nowhere near the potential.
LGs washer dryer combo with heatpump IS very efficient, but even slower.
That gets around the space issue by completely different means.
LG uses a moving drum inside a stationary tub - their "Centum" design.
With that, they can move the whole free travel of the suspension into different spaces - mainly horizontally in the base of the unit.
Thus, they mount fan, compressor and heat exchanger DIRECTLY onto the fixed tub at the top.
Combine that with an inverter heatpump and you get the efficiency you really should be getting.
That however leads to other problems.
The "Centum" system is pretty delicate for balancing, not very water efficient and known to eat socks.
Haier/GE used the fact that the US form factors are a lot more variable.
They took the 27" cabinet, filled it with a "one size down" tub and drum and stretched the cabinet by the height of a pedestal.
They then used the pedestal space as the dryer unit area.
Which in turn means you can have a normal wash unit with typical spin characteristics AND all the space of a typical dryer base unit.
ozzie908
Well-known member
An issue often encountered
With washer/dryers is when they have finished spinning an item or 2 can cling to the drum and refuse to move during shakedown and staying put when drying and you end up with an item of clothing like a piece of card !!
No amount of intelligent programming can stop things sticking to the drum.
With washer/dryers is when they have finished spinning an item or 2 can cling to the drum and refuse to move during shakedown and staying put when drying and you end up with an item of clothing like a piece of card !!
No amount of intelligent programming can stop things sticking to the drum.
Items sticking to the drum
My next door neighbor had the 33" wide Lady Kenmore as well as the narrower Lady Kenmore combos. Sears technician told her to use fabric softener (particularly with the 515 rpm spn seeed for the narrower combo) and that would keep the garments from sticking to the tub. I can say I witnessed garments completely falling in the first couple of minutes of drying.
My next door neighbor had the 33" wide Lady Kenmore as well as the narrower Lady Kenmore combos. Sears technician told her to use fabric softener (particularly with the 515 rpm spn seeed for the narrower combo) and that would keep the garments from sticking to the tub. I can say I witnessed garments completely falling in the first couple of minutes of drying.
ozzie908
Well-known member
515rpm spin
I would imagine they would be holding a little more water the last W/D I used had a 1400 rpm spin and a lot of stuff clung to the drum it needed an arm to swing in and peel everything off lol
I would imagine they would be holding a little more water the last W/D I used had a 1400 rpm spin and a lot of stuff clung to the drum it needed an arm to swing in and peel everything off lol
Laundry ring protection
There IS a system that checks for that and tries to actively prevent that.
And the one manufacturer doing that is of course Miele.
Since Miele is one of the 2 combo producers that still use the metal electrode plate on the door for drying sensing, they can quite easily detect if stuff is touching the door.
If a non stop wash dry cycle senses a load in the wash, but then in the dry cycle, there is no touch count in a certain amount of time, it runs a recovery routine consisting of wetting the load and spinning it again.
At least, that's what the service manual says.
Miele also limitis the final spin in a non stop wash dry cycle to 1200rpm (max, that RPM is reducible in the settings).
Since it - usually - runs a thermo spin anyway and that is run at full speed the likelyhood is quite minimal it would run into a stuck laundry situation.
Many other manufacturers rely on a few other factors.
Since most use thermal drying sensing, a laundry ring will not cause early drying ending.
Given that most do run thermal spins and combo dry cycles easily run 2h plus, at some point, the laundry will most likely release from the drum.
I would guess that more modern direct drive motors could do some sensing routine to check for a laundry ring formation.
But not sure if anybody does.
There IS a system that checks for that and tries to actively prevent that.
And the one manufacturer doing that is of course Miele.
Since Miele is one of the 2 combo producers that still use the metal electrode plate on the door for drying sensing, they can quite easily detect if stuff is touching the door.
If a non stop wash dry cycle senses a load in the wash, but then in the dry cycle, there is no touch count in a certain amount of time, it runs a recovery routine consisting of wetting the load and spinning it again.
At least, that's what the service manual says.
Miele also limitis the final spin in a non stop wash dry cycle to 1200rpm (max, that RPM is reducible in the settings).
Since it - usually - runs a thermo spin anyway and that is run at full speed the likelyhood is quite minimal it would run into a stuck laundry situation.
Many other manufacturers rely on a few other factors.
Since most use thermal drying sensing, a laundry ring will not cause early drying ending.
Given that most do run thermal spins and combo dry cycles easily run 2h plus, at some point, the laundry will most likely release from the drum.
I would guess that more modern direct drive motors could do some sensing routine to check for a laundry ring formation.
But not sure if anybody does.
mrlaundry1011
Well-known member
Stuck laundry
I had that happen with my hoover 7kg washer dryer, a full load of towels got dried to the sides of the drum completely. I’ve noticed the new 14kg hoover I used they now do slow tumbles during sensing after the final spin and everything then just falls off, however still not anti crease or interval spinning. My sisters Siemens IQ500 washer dryer does interval spinning on any combo cycle, much shorter pause and tumble periods between bursts for gentle drying but cotton drying takes 25-30min to do the final spin since it does very long periods between spin bursts to make sure nothing sticks. It also does near LG stepping motion once the final 1400 is complete and during sensing, then again for about 10min once the thermospin has finished. Gentle drying does no thermospin however. I’ve noticed it stupidly gives up trying to spin if it can’t balance for the final spin easily or the thermospin, when drying bedding, that it’ll just end the prog and you come back to either soaking wet or warm very damp bedding at the end, think it’s happened 4 times in the 1.5yr she’s owned it. The hoover 11kg which had the 13kg drum never had stuff stuck to side, neither the Zanussi I had (though quite old)
I had that happen with my hoover 7kg washer dryer, a full load of towels got dried to the sides of the drum completely. I’ve noticed the new 14kg hoover I used they now do slow tumbles during sensing after the final spin and everything then just falls off, however still not anti crease or interval spinning. My sisters Siemens IQ500 washer dryer does interval spinning on any combo cycle, much shorter pause and tumble periods between bursts for gentle drying but cotton drying takes 25-30min to do the final spin since it does very long periods between spin bursts to make sure nothing sticks. It also does near LG stepping motion once the final 1400 is complete and during sensing, then again for about 10min once the thermospin has finished. Gentle drying does no thermospin however. I’ve noticed it stupidly gives up trying to spin if it can’t balance for the final spin easily or the thermospin, when drying bedding, that it’ll just end the prog and you come back to either soaking wet or warm very damp bedding at the end, think it’s happened 4 times in the 1.5yr she’s owned it. The hoover 11kg which had the 13kg drum never had stuff stuck to side, neither the Zanussi I had (though quite old)
GE combo
This was additional current I just got from yale appliances
This was additional current I just got from yale appliances
I'll take a combo
Without electronics, compressors, VFDs, wifi, detergent pumps, and complex air flow channels.
Give me a bank of 5,600 watt heaters, a 4/16 SPC motor and a 1970s Maytag Bakelite timer.
Without electronics, compressors, VFDs, wifi, detergent pumps, and complex air flow channels.
Give me a bank of 5,600 watt heaters, a 4/16 SPC motor and a 1970s Maytag Bakelite timer.
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