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the peanut butter test

Thanks for your post bwoods - I am going ot have to hook up one my GE dishwashers and try the peanut butter test.  I don't doubt what you say (ok - I do a little bit, but I guess I am about to be proven wrong), but when I worked at Lowe's years ago, we had a GE dishwasher with a plastic door.  I was able to watch the angle of the water shooting out of the power tower.  I still don't see how it can get into a glass (or jar) around the perimeter to the machine - especially the corners. 

 

But - I like your experiment idea and I am going to try it.
 
Nate, You have a 2800 right ?

I used to!  I chucked it after the fifth time I walked into the kitchen and found ice-cold water and a beeping dishwasher complaining about a blocked wash-arm.  (It wasn't.  The sensor was getting pissy--or else the electronics were--in old age.)  The detergent cup sensor was also faulty, and 9 out of 10 cycles started with a "Cup Open" error that I had to bypass.

 

I have the KDS-20 now.  Live has been much simpler ever since not being constantly scolded by a dishwasher.

 

I agree that the 2800 was the first real competition finesse- and performance-wise to the big leaguers, but the electronics were a detraction, not a plus, in the long-term.  But then again, that was back in the eighties, when anything futuristic had electronics as a matter of course, before we realized that they actually create more problems than they address.
 
" I still don't see how it can get into a glass (or

william637 - I have had this exact problem with any GE appliance I have owned.  The back left corner of the top rack of my newer near TOL Hotpoint had this problem.  My BOL newer Americana is better about it but the top rack still seems neglected after most loads as there a sprinkling of food bits usually and I am very cautious not to block the tower openings.  It needs a sprayer on the top to spray down on the top rack.
 
INTERESTING thread folks!

John, are you having a bad day? When I got my 1200 from you last fall, you seemed to sing more praises about this line of machines than you are today. Now they seem to be relegated to Maytag's best cousin status?

I have had what are probably several very good dishwashers, and one piece of sheet, at least in my opinion, so I admit that for many years I've been spoiled. Having a WP DU6000, a new GE Potscrubber 2200 (the lightweight electronic version of the 2800 with a lot fewer fancies), a Potscrubber 1200 which I bought new, a GE tall tub heap of stanky crap PDW7300, and now the used 1200 with the new motor/pump, all I can say is it is VERY nice to be freed from 8 years of dishwasher hate.

I am right back to my old use habits, usage patterns which didn't want to die but had to in order to make the '7300 work anywhere near sufficiently. I generally do not challenge a dishwasher but in one way -- in that I load it throughout the week, do not use rinse/hold and expect it to remove dried on foods that have been sitting for days. The only dishwasher of mine that had an isue with that was the '7300. Now that it has moved on to trouble someone else incessantly, I don't worry much about dried on stuff once again.

That said, I don't totally agree with a few comments made regarding the 1200/2800's lower rack (this rack was used in most other GE dishwashers of the period too, including my Mom's 1987 Potsrubber 900). I will say that my last 1200 was of a newer generation than the one I have now (with the Ivory racks) and it held one more plate on the right side in both front and rear quadrants), but even with my current 1200, I can get at least one dozen dinner plates in the bottom rack if need-be, and still litter the edges of the rack with bowls (I don't wash bowels in the dishwasher typically) and cookware and not have a washability issue with items in the corners of the top rack. I will admit that this rack in general lacks capacity and is primitive as compared some newer racks, but I will not judge a 30 year old appliance using current standards.

Oddly, and perhaps I am an easy GE customer for these machines, I LOVE what you all call the saucer rack. BUT, I defy you to call it that in all seriousness because I never have saucers to load in it; instead I usually fill it with a half dozen cereal bowls. This is a perfect place for them - they are out of the way, they don't flop around on themselves there, and they are placed far enough apart for easy loading and water flow.

On the old style motor - some may think they are junk, but who really cares about it's horsepower rating if it gets the job done? My mother's 900 was in service for 17.5 years. It ran about 8 times per week for its first four years, then about 3-5 times weekly after that for almost 14 years. The motor is not what killed the machine, in fact it was useable when it was replaced (the door spring broke). To me that's not a bad motor design, period. I'll not argue that the replacement motor is better, but the old one worked fine and did what it was supposed to do and could obviously carry the appliance through its service life.

If given a choice of the Potscrubber 2800 or the 1200, I would go with the 1200 time and time again due to the lack of electronics, but either way I think these are GREAT machines and I am glad to be able to enjoy using my dishwasher again.

Here's a pic from installation day last September.

Gordon

kenmoreguy64++5-3-2012-13-51-12.jpg
 
Potscrubber 1200

Ours in SF underfilled, but performed well if you chucked in extra water.  It never groused at me or stopped due to a sensed condition, so I liked it that much better.

 

" I still don't see how it can get into a glass (or jar) around the perimeter to the machine"

The wash tower on these is unlike any other before.  It is not the crappy little dual-slot number that was on lesser machines before and since.  It sends a T-shaped stream out to the edges, which apparently has enough "oomph" to swirl up the sides and touch the top of most tumblers placed at the corners.  Ours never had a problem cleaning the furthest reaches.

 

Oh, and Gordon, no teacup saucers?  Even I had saucers to go up there, and my card hardly ever gets stamped anymore.  ;-)
 
peanut butter test

Mark,

Do you have a GE Tower Wash with the older or newer motor. The newer PSC made in China motor, although good, is not pumping as as forcefully as their induction motor did. I have had many of each design.

I have not specifically done the peanut butter test on the newer motor, but there never seems to be any problem with dried jelly in small mouth jelly jars so you may be surprised. If you have the induction motor the jar will come clean with ease. the other plus to the induction Tower Wash GE I have found is the ability to get dried oatmeal off consistently. Something, I have found, that a lot of the newer tall tubs machines have trouble with.

Joseph, both of your machines most likely had the PSC motors. And your BOL would not have the power shower which normally prevents residual food paraticles from remaining on top of glassware or stemware.

Good luck with your test, Mark!
 
peanut butter test

Mark,

Do you have a GE Tower Wash with the older or newer motor. The newer PSC made in China motor, although good, is not pumping as as forcefully as their induction motor did. I have had many of each design.

I have not specifically done the peanut butter test on the newer motor, but there never seems to be any problem with dried jelly in small mouth jelly jars so you may be surprised. If you have the induction motor the jar will come clean with ease. the other plus to the induction Tower Wash GE I have found is the ability to get dried oatmeal off consistently. Something, I have found, that a lot of the newer tall tubs machines have trouble with.

Joseph, both of your machines most likely had the PSC motors. And your BOL would not have the power shower which normally prevents residual food paraticles from remaining on top of glassware or stemware.

Good luck with your test, Mark!
 
@william637

I would feel quite honoured to have a video made of your pot scrubber in operation:)

@kenmoreguy64, bwoods

I certainly do like the Potscrubber 1200 series. After looking at quite an array of user guides, I noticed anything that wasn't an "S" series only did one rinse after the main wash in energy saver mode (etc), but it still had 3 pre washes! Whereas the "S" model altered the amount of pre washes and post-wash rinses to suit the program selected.

I wonder, if it would be possible to get a 240v Motor and Timer, then I could have one and brag to people about my nostalgic side :) They're great dishwashers. Maybe I should try "converting" a derelict Asko or something to have Tower-wash, if I ever a derelict or something. Could name it Fransko (Franken-Asko)!
 
Early 80s TOL GE DWs GSD 900, 1200, 2600, 2800 and other

Gordon I am not having a bad day, LOL, I thought that was a fairly positive post. I do believe that I stress a DW much more than you do, while I haven't been in your home I did watch you load Kevin's DWs. I pack my DWs to the gills and always stuff all pots and pans, bowls are at least triple stacked on top of each other and always get good results from the WP PC and the KDSS-20, only real problem with the KA is that you often have to clean the filter once or more mid-cycle as it will completely clog sometimes. I do put dishes in that dirty. I do find as stated in my post that I find the above mentioned GE DWs very good overall, but when I pack the lower rack items do not get cleaned in the corners. WATER WILL NOT CHANGE DIRECTION IN MIDSTREAM.  And If GE actually got this to work one has to wonder why not only GE but every other DW made worldwide now has a full upper wash-arm. I really dough that GE found a way to do this. Barry I would love to see pictures of those tall glasses with peanut butter getting clean in the corners of the top rack. Better yet I have an original GSD-1200 that even has the original shaded pole motor at the museum that is fully restored condition, I hope you get a chance to visit and we can do some competitive tests.

 

Mark both the original shaded pole motor pumps and the newer PSC pumps have exactly the same main wash impeller, in fact both style pumps use the SAME pump rebuild kit, and as far as I can tell the PSC motor [ which is more powerful ] actually runs faster and unlike the shaded pole motor its speed doesn't waver as it works. That was one of the things I always hated about the shaded pole motors as they sounded like they were straining as they ran because the sound and speed constantly varied.
 
Try it yourself if you don't believe me, John.

If you aren't getting dishes clean in the corner, you have blocked the spray from the tower, which will happen it you put a pan in that is too tall n the lower rack.

Water doesn't need to change course, it approaches all dishes with an angle, it's not going parallel to the upper rack, but coming from below the upper rack.

If things in the corner did not get clean GE would not still be using a tower wash system, in their two door machines, that was started in the early 1960's Can you imagine the consumer complaints there would be if people couldn't put dishes in the corners of the top rack? Remember, in the mid 80's the GE 2800 and 1200 outwashed Whirlpool, Maytag and KitchenAid per Consumer Reports tests.

The maximum stated efficiency of a PSC motor over an induction motor, that I have ever seen stated, is 30 to 40 percent, and usually a little lower.

So, let's give it the benefit of the doubt and say the new Chinese PSC General Electric uses is 40 percent more efficient. 40 percent of 5.5 amps is 2.2 amps. Add this to the 1.8 amp current draw of the PSC and you get 4.0 amps. So the 1.8 amp PSC is pumping water equivalent to a 4.0 amp straight induction. .

GE's old induction is 5.5 amp. This leaves 1.5 amp of additional power to provide torque. That is overage of 37 percent additional power.

Additional torque, on a given blade or impeller, provides additional pumpage.

You put dishes into the dishwasher the way I do John, very dirty. If you have a GE induction and a GE PSC, put dishes in and look at them after the first rinse.

The induction motor has them pretty clean just after the first pre-wash. For the PSC models, it takes one or two more water changes to get the same cleaness.

On the down side, I do find things, light objects like tupperware, fly around more in the induction tower wash models.

GE went for the PSC to meet Energy Star requirements, pure and simple. (I don't think it hurt matters either, that they are getting them from China and probably only having to pay their workers what, maybe 60 cents and hour.) HeHe
 
This is turning into a fun debate!

John - you said that you think you stress a dishwasher more than I do. I am apt to agree with you to a point, but not because of the way you saw me loading Kevin's dishwashers. I have no experience using a top load dishwasher, and prior to your arrival we had quite a bit of trouble with stuck on yibbles (oatmeal) in Kevin's recent KA tall tub. Thus I was not using either in a way that I do at home.

The real answer there is I don't have the sheer volume of items to put in my dishwasher loads before something runs out. Yesterday I was out of cereal/soup spoons and bowls, for example, so I ran the machine. It was decently loaded, but could have been "full-er". During the holidays, when I have more people here dirtying more of everything, I stack more stuff in.

Ironically, since I ran the 1200 late last night, it was untouched today so I took a few pictures when I got home, just for this thread. This is a light load. Nothing I have ever gets pre-rinsed unless there are spoon or fork-sized CHUNCKS and wads of food that are better brushed off into the garbage. Many of my bowls have had microwaved torched sauces on them, etc. This was where my problem with the '7300 began, which worsened with my large skillet, etc.

I will now defer to my phone to upload the two pics so I don't have to transfer them from phone to computer.

G
 
I am loving this thread

This is an excellent thread.  I have decided that since I have a 1200 with the original motor and pump and the 2800 with the new motor and pump, I can run both side by side and see what happens.  Who cares if the 1200 leaks right now?  It's down in my basement where I can make as big of a mess as I want.  I'll let y'all know how it turns out, but it will be a few weeks.  I am leaving for Milwaukee right after work for a great weekend (going for the 97th birthday of a college friends grandmother - she still lives alone and is an amazing woman).  Next weekend is race weekend in Charlotte.  I plan on being very drunk on Saturday and very hungover on Sunday.  If anybody from this group is in Charlotte for the all-star race, hit me up.  We will be tailgating all day.

 

Ok, back to dishwashers.  I mentioned before that the 2800 was a lucky find for me.  The habitat store has been a trove of treasures.  I found my 1-18 there.  On the day that I found the 2800,  I spied the Hotpoint version of the 2200 at 20 paces.  I quickly went and oohed and aaahed over it and knew I was going to by it.  But I kept thinking to myself "wow, this is cool and all, but I really wish I could find a 2800".  And lo and behold (I don't know how I missed it), I looked to the right and a 2800 was sitting right there.  Truly a gift from God. 
 
Gordon,

Not to get off topic (because this is a great thread), but just one quick question.

Is that vintage Fiestaware in your GE?? The original orangish-red Fiestaware is radioactive as Uranium was used for the colorant. Thus they are valuable. I have only one radioactive plate which I use a geiger counter on for demonstration purposes, when I am teaching, but would love to have a whole set.

Mark,

Does your GSD1200 have the third final rinse, or is the model with two final rinses? I think the 1200S has the three final rinses and the 1200G, just two.
 

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