Have we finally grown a pair of balls?

[mixfinder]

Grieving the Process

I really enjoy the people I've met here. I truly am fascinated with appliances and the tasks one does when using them. I'll never be able to properly express my first love and the pleasure with abandon, I experienced reading text after text until the wee hours of the morning. I am struck by the vigor and vitriol that can come boiling forth among my friends here in a fortnight when there is controversy. It makes me very sad and perhaps a bit fearful wondering if the day might come when it is I who becomes the daily carrion. Oddly, many of the posters who stir the passions of the group are the very members to whom I have reached out and I find them to be delightful friends. The collateral damage that occurs each time we experience group discord tears at my heart and makes me very sad. Where does this amount of anger and aggression reside between brouh haus haus. It isn't worth this strife. It was a link to a story about the percentages of gay democrats who donate money to the party and now want their monies worth of representation. It is an article which anyone can read by googling. You are my friends, the refuge where I retreat and lose myself into the appliance and personal pursuits of the membership. At times Kevin can polarize the group by sharing from the cuff and in this case I didn't feel he did anything so odd or unusual. I was surprised the thread was black balled but again, the delete feature was designed for those who are truly offended. It is not mine to decide what is offensive to another and I honor those who felt this was. My request is that we learn from this experience and learning doesn't require anger, accusations and and ultimatums. Sadder yet is knowing this group needs to experience an emotional vomit every so often and each time it happens I insulate myself a bit more. I wish I knew the answer. This is so very painful to watch those I care about swinging in the wind.

 

[rp2813]

Shane, I'm not telling Robert how to run HIS site. Far be it from me to do so. I do think that as webmaster Robert takes no offense from suggestions for making the site better, though. IMHO it would be beneficial to delete the "offending" thread entirely and eliminate a situation where members feel like they've been denied something they might have appreciated. When people see that they can't have something, they want it more.

None of this would have started if the thread hadn't been left up in the first place. That's all I'm saying. Just kill the thread and protect the anonymous that much more, if that is the objective. Or am I missing some important aspect of doing so that makes it not a good idea? Leaving the thread up likely hasn't been a humiliating experience for Keven. As we all know he's a thick-skinned guy and can certainly hold his own in a discussion. But it seems a little spiteful to do so, even though I'm confident that's not Robert's intention.

My posts here were generated out of complete disgust with people whose noses go out of joint over the slightest perceived impoprieties. They are far more irksome to me than the system Robert has put in place. Geez, go join victorianlifestyles.com or something if you can't handle the word "balls" tacked onto the term used in this thread's title. You'll hear the same terminology broadcast globally over the satellite airwaves via the Colbert Report a whole lot more often than you'll see it used here on AW's little corner of the world-wide web.

I'm done with this thread even if people still can't grasp what I've been stating, and though I was not soliciting and definitely do not require any validation, I appreciate the e-mails from those who agree with my opinion.

 

[~sudsshane]

Kelly~

Good to see you posting again. Please do not allow what is going on here to sadden you, or cause you any emotional pain. I know you are a good,decent,man who deeply cares about others.

Shoot me an email when you have some free time. I would love to reconnect.

Take care of yourself.

Shane

 

[toggleswitch2]

Robert has spoken y'all.

It matters not who (else) demands/expects what. It is what it is; deal with it. And Samantha is MORE than fair and patient and tolerant, IMHO.

If there WERE rules, perhaps the first ones would be:

1-Don't try to "correct" anyone else's way of thinking. (Maybe YOU are wrong). OR as grandpa used to say "It's like talking to a brick wall. Does it understand?"

2- Don't show who you may like or dislike. Why purposely polarize the group and form competitive teams?

3- Don't attack anone directly or indirectly. "Talk to the group"

4- Forgive thine "enemies". I personally have asked forgiveness on this site of those I have hurt. In my belief it was all unintentional. I hope they don't feel any slight was intentional. Unlike others, who I know for a fact have attempted to hurt my reputation (like it needs help!) and my relationship, I have shown great reserve in not retaliating, or exacting revenge. [As much as that may appeal, in theory, to the Scorpio part of myself).

Sorry to pontificate. But le me continue..... We are not here to stroke our egos or have them stroked. We are not here to judge. We are not here to gossip. We are not here to do evil unto others.

I still ask if anyone has issues with ME, grow a set of *COUGH* spheres and write to me directly. S- - T all over me (NO I'm not into that). Get it out. You don't KNOW ME, you know OF me and are basing your judgements on a SCREEN PERSONA. Meet me in person, THEN decide.

Anyhoo.....I'm rambling again.

And here is my No. 1 self-imposed "rule": let it go. Let someone think they have outdone you. Let THEM have the last word. You are more of a man to know when to walk away, than to fight to the "death". As I have said many time to those close to me. Listen, I will win any fight I put my mind to. but if I win, we both lose. I will crush you. So let's not and say we did. In war everyone loses. Period.

Sorry to be so opinionated, but as we have said countless times before EVERYONE is entiled to my opinion!

Bottom line: no one wants to babysit. Especially Robert. One push of a button and this website is gone. Let's behave.

A million thanks to those who tolerte my nonsense!

 

[toggleswitch2]

oh and to answer the question posed in the title of this thread.

I didn't have to grow them. I came with them, and properly descended too!

ducks and runs.

 

[toggleswitch2]

~There's an old rule of etiquette that ladies and gentlemen do not discuss sex, politics or religion at a social function. What's left? Exchanging recipes?

Tearing others to shreds, which is not foreign to this site, but is just as polarizing as the above-listed "holy trinity".

 

[panthera]

As Kelly

Has already summed up the content of the original post very well, I won't repost, though I do thank Robert for inviting me to do so.

It's Robert's site, we have to play by his rules. That's fair and I have no problem with it.

I suggest we accept his decision and return to other topics.

As far as the original link, here it is. I still feel it is very valid.

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary...uss-repercussions-if-no-action-by-wh-congress

 

[panthera]

OH,

One thing (so much for consistancy). I really don't think it's fair to demand that people reveal themselves when they click on the delete button. It is an internal communication system between the person who has taken offense (rightly or wrongly) and Robert. Designed to save Robert time and hassle, it is not a public communication.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Toggles....totally agree with Rule #1 above!! Really, who gives a damn?

This is a public website, kids do have access to read it. Some of you have posted things here that I wouldn't want my dogs to read, let along my kids, if I had them. And believe me, NOTHING offends me, and I won't be one of the ladies pulling the switch. But we all should know what language is and is not appropriate for a public website.

Not for nothing, but we all have an opportunity to dispell some of the stereotypes associated with groups of "people like us". Doesn't mean we can't be funny or humorous, or even way off color. And some of you guys are just hysterical! Just be vigilant about the language you use to write what you do. Nothing wrong with double meanings...and our own Toggles is the master at that! And damned funny too!

 

[Unimatic1140]

Morning everyone, and thank you Toggles, I particularly like your rules #1 thru #4. They make good sense.

My request is that we learn from this experience and learning doesn't require anger, accusations and and ultimatums. Sadder yet is knowing this group needs to experience an emotional vomit every so often and each time it happens I insulate myself a bit more.
I agree Kelly we need to learn from this experience. We left for the evening at 8pm last night and I had time to think about whether I wanted to delete this thread or not. After quite a bit of back and forth I've decided to leave it up. My reasons are simple, because if I delete it we're only going to go through all of this again the next time it happens we all know its going to happen again.

Kelly no need to insulate yourself, this place is nothing more than a big family and just think about how many times families go through episodes like this one. Its all part of the human experience and I really think its unavoidable at times.

Keven thank you for reposting your link and not getting all insulted. I think its important to remember what Robert (RE563) said above...
"And, everyone seems to forget that the members here are not the only ones that read what's put on here. Everyone in the world does. "

I think us vintage washer collectors are looked as by the rest of the world as nutty enough, so some of us wince at some of the more offensive sounding posts for the simple reason we would like to put our best face forward.

 

[rollermatic]

good lord!

this site is a great site about vintage appliances!

it is run by a wonderful webmaster that puts his own money into it and does a lot of hard work on it!

he could very well charge a fee if he wanted (and i think he should) but he doesn't.

WHAT HE DECIDES TO DO AND HOW HE DECIDES TO RUN IT IS UP TO HIM!

i'd hate to see the site fall down just because of a bunch of politically minded garbage thrown back and forth here!

OH WELL, I'M HERE TO LEARN AND SHARE KNOWLEDGE AND PICS OF WASHERS, DISHWASHERS, AND OTHER APPLIANCES. I COULD NOT CARE ABOUT ALL THAT POLITICAL CRAP! IT'S BORING!

http://w

 

[maytagbear]

'all that political crap! It's Boring!'

"all that political crap?"

Politics, dear man, determines what rate of taxes you pay. Politics also determined that breakable lenses in eyeglasses were a very bad idea.

Politics got us the 8 hour work day, and the five day week.

Politics may be confusing at times, but they and politicians affect real peoples' real lives every day.

Children's car seats--politics. Safe drinking water--politics.

Police and fire departments that come at a phone call....politics....without asking for a credit card number before dispatch. Politics.

If a person graduated from public schools---politics!

Yes, I admit that some aspects of politics are not as well considered as they could be, but they are on the right subjects, usually.

Without politics, there would be no "consenting adults" laws. Don't know about most of you, but I like to be legal in private.

When taken down to basics, every human interaction is inherently political.

Email in profile.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[danemodsandy]

For Your Consideration:

"I think us vintage washer collectors are looked as by the rest of the world as nutty enough, so some of us wince at some of the more offensive sounding posts for the simple reason we would like to put our best face forward."

I'd like to offer something here that I've been struggling with for more than two years.

As some of you know, I'm a magazine writer and editor. I write for three different publications, all of which are about design. On two occasions, I've "pitched" the idea of a story about vintage appliance collecting to magazine editors, who agreed that it sounded very interesting. But -

When you write a magazine story about a collecting field, it's usual to write what is called a "sidebar" - a little guide to resources in the field. The idea is, now that a reader is interested in the field covered by the story, they can turn to the resources listed in the sidebar to learn more and become involved.

Unfortunately, on both the occasions I've mentioned, editors came here - and as part of their visit, looked at this forum. And on both occasions, it just so happened that the sort of heated exchanges that are being seen in this very thread were going on. I think you can guess what happened after that.

It was not a case of editors being shocked to realise that members here are often gay. Very few people have a problem with that nowadays within reasonable bounds of expression. The problem, as they saw it, was extremely heated exchanges that didn't have much to do with appliances, collecting, or fellowship. On the one occasion I've been able to do a story about vintage appliance anything, it was for an essay, where no sidebar was expected.

This site is the public face of this hobby, and I have been both professionally and personally saddened by some things posted here, because as Robert says, we're seen as nutty enough as it is. There's a kitchen pictured in this forum right now I'd love to pitch to a magazine I work for. Can't do it as matters stand.

So far as politics go, half the bloomin' Internet seems to be political stuff, from Daily Kos and Drudge Retort to the sites of Rush and Glenn, to the comments functions of every newspaper on this planet with an online edition. I come here to get away from that stuff, not to read more of it. This is my break from real life, because there is more than enough real life to keep me occupied.

At any rate, that's my take on it.

 

[redcarpetdrew]

I do enjoy reading the various posts here on the super forum as they range from stoves and refrigerators to food to china patterns all the way up to issues that affect the Gay community. Btw, I say that last part because I am not but wish to broaden my mind (and opinions) and learn how everyone thinks and feels... I >hope< that came out as intended...) I enjoy everyone's posts and realize that we are like a large family. When large families get together, there can be great happiness and joy while sharing things among ourselves BUT there can (and allmost allways will) be times where unpleasant things come out to be dealt with. There is always a possibility of friction occuring when large groups of people from different spectrums get together. Face it folks, it's part of being human.

That being said, it does hurt to see family fight and sometimes go for the jugular when it really isn't needed. All it does is create more bad feelings and possibly ruin friendships. Kelly, I totally understand where you are coming from but please don't space yourself further. I really do enjoy your posts. In fact, even though I haven't been fortunate enough to meet most of you, I still care about you folks and do not enjoy seeing some of the more personal attacks.

I think Robert does a fantastic job running this site and the fact that he does so out of his own pocket is the ultimate example of unselfishness. I also think that the fact that he let's the threads on this site go where they will with only a small amount of 'guidance' is wonderful! Robert, I don't think you get enough love for all the stuff you do for this site (and us...) that's behind the scenes and therefor unseen.

I, for one, think this thread's reached it's end. There are far more wonderful things to discuss and spend time on. Please.

RCD

 

[redcarpetdrew]

Sandy, you were posting while I was posting. You said something that I agree with whole heartedly. When I've had a busy or crazy day, the one thing I can look forward to is logging on here and loosing myself for a brief time among friends who share my interests in appliances. Among friends who don't look at me in the funny way because I collect, restore, use and enjoy vintage appliances. Robert, for that I again say THANK YOU!

RCD

 

[jeffg]

Sandy, people who visit here should be advised it's an open and sometimes heated forum. Some posts on political issues have been made by Robert himself, so they can hardly be called inappropriate.

Also, most of the posts in this thread that have complained about political discussions have come from the handful of AW members who don't share the majority's political bent. As mentioned before, AW is one of the few places where us left-wingnuts can discuss issues without being harrassed, molested and/or repressed by right-wingnuts. Not only that, but a sizeable contingent of AW members are gay, and in 20+ years of participating on web forums I've never come across another board where I had so much in common with other members. I cherish this board and Robert exactly for this reason, and I'd hate to see to scope of the Super forum limited to recipe exchanges and discussions about blenders.

 

[petek]

JeffG What's wrong with blenders you blender-phobe!! I was just waiting for this to finally come out in the open. And then to drag recipes into it as well.

 

[norgeway]

ROBERT !!!

You absolutely have the patience of job!!!I think you are doing a fine job and we are very lucky to have you,other clubs have much on there websites that is in poor taste,but you keep this one clean and wholesome,You know im not a prude, but there is a time and place for everything,and here is not the place for offensive and or other disagreeable posts, thanks so much,I support you 100%...Hans Craig

 

[stainfighter]

This is my break from real life, because there is more than

Very well said, Sandy. Robert- so enjoy your site and the company of others here...let's all move on...

 

[panthera]

Gave it a few days

Sandy, I am not surprised that you would delete my message, especially given your views on what this site should be (and not be).
My perspective on the matter is very simply: The day Robert asks all of us or just me to stop posting on anything which is not expressly vintage appliance or modern laundry oriented will be the day I stop doing so. Until then, I will post whatever he permits me to post.

Both before I began actively posting and during the several three month breaks I have taken from posting here since 2005, there have been enormous fights, replete with people calling employers and having members fired from their jobs, reports being sent to the FBI and mobbing (tick, tock) at a level which has destroyed more than one internet forum completely.

In short, with or without me, you will have a forum which does not fulfill your desires. By all means, continue to delete my postings when they offend you. Personally, except for racists and mobbing, I won't be contacting Robert, but to each his own.