HE detergents....

[frigilux]

I use HE detergents in my 2010 Frigidaire front-loader (with its "shot glass" of water). My water is mechanically softened, so I've just become used to seeing a few suds in rinse water.

I choose the Sanitize cycle to wash loads of greatly-stained kitchen whites, since it mimics a profile wash (cool water enters, then gets gradually heated to around 155 degrees). I use (UK/Unilever) powdered Persil Bio detergent for those loads. Cleans like a champ and rinses very cleanly. I did try using liquid Tide HE with Bleach Alternative once, and the long wash tumble (around 70 minutes) combined with very hot water turned the suds into what appeared to be whipped cream! In other words, I echo what Malcolm stated in his post: US detergents (well, Tide, at any rate) aren't meant for long, super-hot washes.

I use powdered Tide HE with Bleach Alternative or its liquid counterpart for all other loads. Oh, and I use Perwoll for loads of blacks/dark colors. Perwoll is very sudsy in the wash, but it rinses cleanly.

 

[lovestowash]

"It's those citrates they use in the liquids that ke

Thanks Tom...I didn't realize that...

Just this week did a warm wash load of woven shirts in the Westy with liquid Tide Plus Bleach Alternative, a detergent I seldom use...
Minimal suds in the wash, but went back to check on the cold rinse, and suds 1/3 the way up the window...on the second rinse...
Granted it's more like a froth than rich suds, but I thought the washer was broken...had to run another complete cycle to get a clean rinse...
I've noticed a sticky residue feeling on sheets and towels when I use a liquid...those get powder only...

I try to buy HE whenever possible for both the Westy and Amana/SQ...but I have no brand loyalty...
Also like to try new scents...just bought a box of Gain Ocean Escape, though not available in HE...

George

 

[bosch2460]

I have been using non HE detergents in all my FL for years. I got my first Frigidaire FL in 1998, and the only HE detergent available was Tide, and was more expensive. Through trial and error, I noticed I did not need the recommended dose, and figured why waste my time or money. I rarely buy a HE specific detergent to this day. My current machine is a Miele, Bosch before that, and I have mechanically soft water. I never use more than 2 TBS per load, and as long as I measure carefully for size and soil of the load, I never have any issues. A typical, average soiled load, I use just over 1 TBS (20 ml). Like Frigilux, I have grown accustomed to occasionally seeing a small bit of suds on the glass in the final rinse, but the water itself is clear (I rarely use fabric softener). I think HE detergents are a bunch of hoo ha, personally.

 

[yogitunes]

I go to CostCo and get the rectangular plastic bucket of Kirkland 200 use.....only thing compared to SUP, is no enzymes.....but this stuff is multi purpose, for garage floor oil pickup to gritty kitty litter supplement.....but doesn't work bad for most normal soil.....

I love Tide w/bleach powder, the scent is great, most times its one scoop of SUP and one of Tide.....I get great results....most loads are hot water, and my water heater is set at 160...

My Frigidaire has been altered to add more water, to the bottom of the door, which allows for sudsing, but I'll take that over the fact it does not "play" the balancing act anymore with the final spin....no time wasted, turns left, then right, then left, and takes off everytime.....rinsing is clear.....

I have never ever run a clean washer cycle, nor had to run one, never mold or mildew, never leave the doors ajar, or remove the dispenser, never a mildew smell....lucky if it ever sees a cold water wash, although I do run 2 to 4 loads a day, one being bleach......but was confused when I came to this club and members were mentioning about this kind of stuff happenning, and I never experienced it

Malcolm, next time Darren or Brian is here, we'll do a video....I need to get updated on doing this stuff......Brian tried the last time to shoot a video, but without plexiglas in place, it shot a load of suds in his face.....THAT's the video you want to see....LOL

 

[passatdoc]

@mrwash: Wenn ich in Deutschland bin, kaufe ich ein oder zwei Paketen Persil in ReWe, meistens Megaperls Universal oder Color. Immer Pulver, das sicherer im Flugzeug ist. "Da weiß ich, was ich habe...".

Aber in Amerika waschen wir nur mit 60 C Graden oder kalter. Ach, Du weißt die Amis. Für deutsche Großmütter heißt 90 C "Normal" und 80 C "Kalt".

Ich habe nur Gain HE Pulver ohne Duft in Amerika gesehen. (kein Apple Mango oder was). Billiger aber so effektiv wie Tide HE Pulver.

 

[mrwash]

Gain powder without scent ? Wow I just know the version with scent.

By the way, German people are following the trend of washing only on warm temperatures or max. at 60° C. So we have the problems with bad smelling washers and laundry here as well.

By the way, this is the Gain I mentioned earlier. Smells really nice in the bottle:

 

[countryguy]

I use both Tide HE liquid and powder in my He4t and have never had a problem with sudsing.

Gary

 

[passatdoc]

@mrwash: the Gain HE to which I referred "does" have a fragrance, but it is the "basic" Gain fragrance, which is not heavy, and is packaged without any mention of a special fragrance (like "Apple Mango Tango"). However, you are correct, there is no "fragrance free" or "sensitive" version of Gain.

By the way, Tide and Gain are both Proctor and Gamble products. Tide is marketed toward the "average middle class American", while Gain is marketed more toward Latin American immigrants, who supposedly tend to pay more attention to fragrance (hence all of the fruity fragrances) and who supposedly are less likely to demand "fragrance free" or "light fragrance" versions of the product. Gain is priced slightly lower than Tide, though organizations such as Consumer Reports have found little difference between the two (Gain is not rated as often as is Tide, but at times Gain HE powder---on the rare occasions when CR bothers to evaluate it---has been rated a "Best Buy" on the basis of performance and value/price).

People of my mother's generation were pretty much brainwashed into thinking that only Tide could clean adequately, and that it wasn't worth the savings in cost to use a cheaper detergent. Of course this was the higher-sudsing formulation used in top loaders. Many middle class housewives who could afford to pay for Tide developed a loyalty to the brand similar to Persil's brand loyalty in Germany (though I think Tide is inferior to Persil).

 

[mrwash]

Thanks for letting me know about the target customers of both detergents. I was sure that Tide addresses to the average American customer but I did not know that Gain refers more to the Latin people. I thought it would target more young people who like exotic fragrance combinations. Well, I am not Latin but I must say that Gain is an interesting detergent. As I said, I do miss more HE versions but we'll see with what they will come up with within the near future.

In Germany as well you can categorize the different detergents. Take Henkel for example. They have 3 detergent brands:

Persil
Weißer Riese (White Giant)
Spee

Persil is for the "upper class people". In TV spots you always see well situated and modern thinking people who obviously have a high income.

Weißer Riese is a detergent for families. You will always see childern who get very dirty in TV spots and the Mom who gets everything clean with Weißer Riese.

Spee is a low budget detergent and target customers are definitely young people who just move to their own place and students as well.

 

[passatdoc]

Henkel bought the Purex line of detergents here in USA, in fact there is a Henkel USA regional office near me in "the OC":

 

http://www.henkelna.com/careers/irvine-ca-5695.htm
 

However, they don't sell Persil here on a large scale, which is a mystery to me. Persil is sold on a small scale through Miele stores in USA, so obviously they are seeking the high-end people who buy Miele appliances. It costs $50 for a large box, which no one in Germany would ever pay. There are never any discounts, because any Miele store which cuts prices and gets caught will be cut off by both Miele and Henkel. It's easier and cheaper to have friends from Germany bring it over, or I bring it over myself on trips to Germany. I buy the plastic bag package because it's luggage-safe for air travel...basically impossible to break. Und da weiß man, was man hat....

 

[sudsmaster]

Currently I use Sears Ultra Plus HE powder supplemented 30% with STPP for the bulk of my washing. For bath towels and throw rugs with rubber backing, I currently use Clorox Corp's new line of liquid detergent, Green Works, without STPP supplementation. It has a nice scent. I also like their hand dish washing liquid.

 

[launderess]

IIRC There Are Many Variables That Go Into Testing Laundry P

Much of which depends upon local market conditions. P&G for instance tests Tide (and one assumes their other laundry detergents) in various test markets from Maine to California.

Water conditions, type of soil, etc all play a factor. IIRC even the most popular foods which sooner or later will leave stains affect formulas. For instance any decent laundry detergent sold in the UK must be able to shift curry stains.

In order to launch Persil across the United States Henkel would have to do vast amounts of market research for a product that would go up against Tide. Why bother?

For most American homes Tide is top dog and it costs a pretty penny. Henkel isn't about to start production of Persil in the United States, and the cost of importing the stuff to these shores would make the retail cost much higher than Tide.

Dosage would have to be adjusted for many different American water conditions, not to mention laundry habits. While many domestic front loaders do now have heaters, top loading machines do not and they still represent the bulk of machines in US homes. Oh and customer support would have to be arranged....

As it stands Miele imports Persil and handles much of the customer service and other issues. Why mess with a good system?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Persil in the USA

Furthermore, why would low sudsing be of interest to users of top loaders, especially when users of traditional agitator top loaders (present company excepted) no longer represent the higher income market for which Persil is designed? I would not want to think about the cost of dosing 18 gallons of water with Persil, either.

 

[roscoe62]

@ Yogitunes

I use the powdered HE haven't had much luck with liquids.Tide is the only one available here and I have yet to see the Tide with Bleach HE on market.Dosage is one coffee scoop per load works well but I still have to extra rinse even with a full load, towels mostly.
Persil is my first choice but at $80.00/box has been on hold.
As for price there is no difference between He and non HE brands only size .

 

[passatdoc]

@Laundress....and while many US FLs have heaters, almost all have both hot and cold water fill, with the heater activating only when a water temperature above the temp of the hot water line is selected (e.g. "Sanitize"). If one selects "hot" or "warm", normally the heater does not engage. So the clothes do not start out in cold water with the temp gradually raised to the selected temperature (say, 40 or 50 or 60C) as happens in Germany. So part of the intended design of Persil (enzymes activating as temperature slowly rises) is lost in most US FLs, which start out immediately at hot or warm due to the dual-fill nature of the machines. (However, Henkel Persil still gives superior results in US FL machines).

 

[nmassman44]

Funny thing about Persil...they launched it in Mexico and the commercial claims its the German formula. Methinks eventually when Miele and the Henkel contract expire one might see Persil on the shelves here in the States...they could be sneaky and rename Purex Persil like what Benckiser did by renaming Electrosol to Finish.

 

[nmassman44]

here is the linkhttp://youtu.be/whWEOH3euTc

 

[nmassman44]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[launderess]

Persil & "Cold" Water

Have to look at my boxes of Megaperls "Sensitive" but IIRC the product is advertised on the box as being active in several water temperatures including "cold".

Now of course warmer to hot water temperatures probably will give better results with some soils/stains, but think the enzymes must work even in "cold" (about 85F)water.

Tide "Coldwater" contains enzymes and it works best in cold, cool to warm water. So methinks the new "frankenzymes" have something to them.

 

[jetawayjuan]

I just found freshstart detergent @ winco food supermarket wondering if its safe use in a He washer?